| Grelber | 05 Apr 2023 7:07 p.m. PST |
The 28 mm Mycenaean Greek command sets I bought come with a figure carrying a pole with a . . . something at the top. Could anybody tell me what this is supposed to be? A religious talisman of some sort? Is it a for real flagpole, and if so, what sort of flag should it have? Any links would also be appreciated. Grelber |
HMS Exeter  | 05 Apr 2023 7:11 p.m. PST |
Which company is the manufacturer? |
| Zephyr1 | 05 Apr 2023 7:52 p.m. PST |
For a Mycenaean flag, I'd probably do a lion, or 2 lions facing each other (like those depicted over the main gate of the Mycenaean citadel…) |
| Swampster | 06 Apr 2023 1:50 a.m. PST |
Foundry have an animal head and a teardrop shaped finial which they have painted with an owl (for Athena?). I'd be surprised to see a flag used. Bronze Age isn't my area, but I think the various cultures tended to use things stuck on sticks rather than fluttering from them. |
| Grelber | 06 Apr 2023 7:38 a.m. PST |
The figures I have are from Foundry and Newline. I haven't found any indications of the source for the standards.
Swampster, I'm inclined to think they are something on a stick, but the poles are certainly long enough to carry a flag. Zephyr, I like the idea of the two lions, and I've certainly read suggestions that the lions at Mycenae had a sort of heraldric function. My guess is that the finials are something cast in bronze (as opposed to baked clay or carved wood) and that the bearer would stay near the leader to serve as a rallying point and to show the leader was still in the battle, but I don't really know. Grelber |
| Swampster | 06 Apr 2023 12:31 p.m. PST |
The closest things I can think of are Egyptian and Assyrian. The poles are long enough for a flag but the art from the period shows them with just the religious symbol as a finial. |
| Augustus | 06 Apr 2023 1:30 p.m. PST |
Would really like to see a battle with such things as true really points. With the dust,confusion, and cacophony of an ancient battlefield, I really doubt you could make out a given animal much less the pole at all. If it had a flag or colored pennant, that would make sense. Yeah, it's not what they did. I have heard that clearly. It just flies in the face of what is an otherwise confusing mess. |
| HMS Exeter | 06 Apr 2023 10:10 p.m. PST |
I don't think there is enough info available to make a compelling case for any of the possible options. If there's no right way to do it, there can't be any way to do it "wrong." Personally, I'd just stick to the pole with the headpiece. Flags, I think, came later. |
| Swampster | 07 Apr 2023 11:34 a.m. PST |
@Augustus
Compare with things like a Roman eagle. Vexillas were used, though they were small and didn't have the status of the eagles. Plus there were the various other Roman standards which were used, also without flags. We also have the example of Celtic totem animals on spear shafts.
The standards of the tribes of Israel in "Numbers" _may_ have been textile flags but discussions on Biblical texts can get too involved for me to want to start! |
| Swampster | 09 Apr 2023 9:16 a.m. PST |
(D'oh – vexillum, pl. vexilla) |
