"20mm vs. 28mm WWII Gaming?" Topic

This led to some great feedback recently.
To my surprise there was alot of support for the 20mm WW2 genre on TMP!

Over the past several years many members of my gaming club dumped 20mm (1/72-1/76) WW2 and moved up to the 25mm-28mm "skirmish" scale. AND the rest of the clubs WW2 fans downsized to 15mm Flames of War!
I was an avid fan of the 20mm WW2 genre, but nobody gamed this scale within 50 miles of my club!?

I've alwyas loved the sculpting of 25mm figures (especially all the WW2 figs, Artizan, Westwind, BAM, Foundry, etc.) AND what REALLY convinced me to move up in scale was the awesome 1/48 Bandai-Solido, and 1/50 Corgi Armor!

I know it really borders on a matter of personal preference. But would love to read some opinions anyhow. Thanks!

To me 20mm is the best go-between scale for playing large games and small. It's a matter of taste but I couldn't stand "skirmishing" in 15mm.

20mm is big enough (to me) to mount one per stand. OR you could put 3-4 per stand. Metals are $1 USD a fig (or so) and plastics range from $0.10 USD to $0.20 USD per.

Tanks can be had for $5 USD on up.

The list goes on I'm sure.

The range of figures, vehicles, and equipment available in 20mm is unparalleled in any other scale. 15mm is close, I admit, but in 20mm there are very few things that arent available "off the shelf".

20mm is my preferred skirmish scale, and I also use it for larger scale actions. The ability to use easy-to-obtain HO scale model RR buildings, bits, etc is a huge plus.

20mm figures are big enough to be seen, big enough to put some nice detail on, but small enough to be fast to paint IMO.

All that being said, I do have a bunch of 15s and a few 28s that I do enjoy very much, but 20mm is my primary scale.

I forgot to add, I never let the fact that there are only a couple other guys who are 20mm nuts in my club deter me. I make it a matter of habit to do both sides for any particular game I put on, that means people just have to show up and push lead. There are, I bet, very few gamers who are such scale snobs/purists/psychos that they wouldnt come to a game where you supplied all the figures :-)

I think most of us would play anything that is well presented, no matter what the scale. Does that make me a game ? :-/

My opinion..

ZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZz

WW2 should only ever be played in the 'one true scale' – 20mm

Why?

Its perfect for skirmishes or large games. I have played divisional games in 20mm using Rapid Fire. At the other end of the spectrum I have used 20mm for small resistance games and other almost RPG style games.

Variety… Almost everything exists in 20mm. Vehicles, trucks, troops, you name it some nutter makes it! Although I am having problems finding Chassuers Alpins and Legionaires for my Norway 1940 game… Any sculpters out there take a hint!

Scenery… Loads of beautiful resins and compatability with railway scenery. Again you will find the variety hard to beat. Look at Defence in Depth, Shellhole Scenics, Grand Manner… the list is long…

As for the other scales… why bother?

15mm – Bit too small for my liking with vehicles that cost more than 20mm ones…

28mm – Great for small skirmishes but not alot else… Also the whole vehicle/scale thing is a right …

The only other scale that tempts me in WW2 is 10mm… And that only for North Africa and cos Petes stuff in BKC looks sexy…

Best regards

LPF

(Confessed 20mm addict, owner of more than 1500 painted 20mm, 500+ vehicles… and way too many unpainted ones…)

Here is my reason for 20mm:

picture

For me the preference for 20mm is based on a number of factors.
I primarily game at skirmish level and the ground scale for 28mm does not look good to me.

The availability of exotic armies and equipment.

The best 20mm figures are better looking figures than the majority of 28mm and 15mm.

The increasing availabilty of diecast at 1/72, not to mention all the resin, metal, and plastic at 1/72-1/76.

In my area I am the only person who games in 20mm. Since I have no intention of selling off my collection, I either supply both sides like Hacksaw, or game solo.

Al,

Nice pic…

My reason for 20mm…

picture

"I've alwyas loved the sculpting of 25mm figures (especially all the WW2 figs, Artizan, Westwind, BAM, Foundry, etc.)"

You must be hallucinating. Or be into parody, 'cause that's what 28mm sculpting generally reminds me of :-p

Oh well, to each his own I suppose, and for me that means 20mm for biggish skirmishes, and 1/35 for small ones. 15mm generally combines the bad sculpting of 28mm with the disadvantages of small scales, so I won't go anywhere near that one either. And I'm unimpressed with FOW, except for its packaging & marketing attitude.

20mm is the one for me, it has everything you need.
Just see the number of requests for vehicles in 1/48 by 25mm gamers. Then there are the costs, 25mm is extortionate, a definite disincentive to getting new blood into the hobby as well as the damage to your wallet.

For my part, I don't do either, but I do model and wargame in 1:72/6 scale. It allows me to combine military modelling and wargaming. I know a lot of folks out there just want to "game", but that's not my interest – I prefer to work on a model and then use it in a wargame. It doesn't really matter to me a dot if the 28mm "style" is more popular than 1:72 wargaming or if the latter is dying. If "popularity" is an issue then 1:72 or "braille scale" as it is sometimes called by plastic modeller is very well established in military modelling circles and those who just model in that scale probably vastly outnumber those of us who wargame in that scale and in 28mm combined.

Personally, I can never understand the attraction of 28mm figure styles. They are, in my opinion, grotesque, and don't come close to even approximating a human being. I truly think it's a matter of that's all that was available in that scale and folks being so enthusiastic for the scale not caring about what they looked like – rather like those of us who grew up wargaming with the very primitive looking Airfix series 1 figure sets. However, unlike the progression with plastic going from very toy like to more realistic appearances and scaling, I think what happened with 28mm was that some of the obviously talented producers that stars mentions in the opening post of this topic embraced the embarrassing style.

It's my opinion (emphhasize my opinion) that the reason these figure styles are so accepted is that it's what everyone is "used to". I remember being somewhat taken aback myself when AIrfix released its second edition Afrika Korps after getting so used to the stiff style (and those great little guns thatcam with the old Afrka Korps).

To illustrate this "getting used to a style", see what I've done here in applying the "28mm figure style" to vehicle models. I found after staring at the mess I made of the Sherman Firefly for a little while, that the proper scale model "didn't look right" afterward:

link

An interesting result, I think.

Hey Tim…you are so right! Good mental exercise that.

My particular gripe are 28mm WWII helmets…

I would say 20mm for diversity of inexpensive figs and vehicles.

Wolfslair Models..

YOUR opinion is similar to your rear end,
….Full of Brown Trout.

LOL, Tim, nice WH40K tank, you should sculpt for Games Workshop!!! :-)

I thought Wolfslair was making the point`not this old discussion again`and he is right i supose.Thing is i just cant help but advertise 20mm….1/72….1/76 as its such a great and diverse scale.I say advertise rather than defend because to anybody with a jot of wargaming awareness its a briliant scale and doesnt need to feel threatend by other scales.

AL

Tim,

some good points you bring up. However, I don't really see a significant difference in 20mm figs not being "as" grotesquely scuplted as 28mm scale.

link

Now, as for the 28mm vehicles.. (and I do like your photo!)
they do have along way to go.
But the 1/50 Corgi diecast and 1/48 Bandai Plastics are just as good as any 1/72-1/76 kit. You gotta admit.

Tim, Superb link… made me and others chuckle (posted it on Elhiem forum) Excellent…

You know Al, I didnt think of it that way, Way to go Starnbars your a great advert for 20mm, and we as a collective thankyou… :-)

Goo-goo, gah-gah, Wolfslair no play nice in sandox. He go poo-poo all da time. 8-P

Ooops… Has someone thrown their 28mm rattle out of the pram… ;-)

Tim,

Do they do those in 20mm? I want one…. 'firefly on Steriods'

Actualy, folks, while I dislike the 28mm style, the pictures I've seen here of 28mm vehicles look like suberb models (though the T-34 yesterday or the day before seemed to have too high sides and there was something loudly wrong with the otherwise excellent BAM T-34/85 a few weeks ago – the position of the driver's hatch didn't look right to me).

Stars, the pics you show on that link are absolutely beautifully painted but to me (again, this is just my opinion) they still look like a bunch of gorilla children with faces of very old men that have been stretched vertically and puffed out. Just try reconciling the link you gave with pictures of real soldiers. The small arms are totally out to lunch.

I don't like any figures that are badly proportioned. I'm a plastic kind of person, and in the plastic 1:72/6 range I dislike intensely a lot of the Matchbox stuff – I wonder if some of the dumpy looking body proportions were sculpted by someone who does 28mm today? And I found many of my ESCI figures seemed to look too tall (not to mention the repetition of the same poses in many of their sets). But it seems that 28mm styles are universally out to lunch.

I made Bandai models in the 70s, they are fabulous. I would take up 1:48 wargaming in a minute if I was looking for a large scale. Haven't really seen the Corgi stuff. But heck, Tamiya's jumped into 1:48 and that bodes really well for the scale.

But remember, despite all my whinging and moaning and groaning about 28mm styles, this is art (yes, even the 28mm monstrosities) and how and what you wish to appreciate is up to each individual.

starsnbars1,

I noticed three things when I first looked at the pictures in your link.

1. They are painted very nicely (I was already familiar with these pictures and who painted them).

2. The weapons are larger than they should be.

3. The hands are bigger than they should be.

Not that there aren't 20mm figures like this (oversized weapons, hands, etc.), but if you look at the best 20mm has to offer compared to the best 28mm has to offer, 20mm seems to come out ahead.

You'd think that the larger the figure, the more detail and accurate proportions they would have. But in the wargaming world it doesn't really seem to be that way.

Thanks Darryl (and others) – I'm a member of the elheim forum, but have forgotten my password.

Lord Peter, what a great overview shot. Is it part of a battle report or are there more pictures somewhere? I know I could poke around with the URL, but the picture is just so dramatic, I'd love to be able to wade through the pics in order…

Alcal, that field is wonderful. I would have loved to have had fields like that for my series of bocage games a couple of years ago. Now, please tell us how you made them, materials, especially for the flowing grass.

I just really

really

really

Like miniatures.

A lot.

There is no "vs." for me. I have happily collected all but the 20mm plastics (just never liked 'em. Sorry you Airfix Grognards(tm)).

I play in these scales as well. using the same system.

Works for me.

The AB figs are works of art. And they continuously add more, so my collection will soon grow again.

Life is good.

Starsnbars,

I noticed your link to Artizan figs. Not perhaps the best choice to illustrate 'quality' 28mm figures.

BAM may be better? Just dont mention the case of the incredible shrinking MP40…

I think the mausers on Artizan Germans are awful, they look like muskets. The MP40s lack any real detail, hands are often HUGE and helmets odd shapes… And dont even get me started on the MiniSchrek

Just MY thoughts on Artizan… and yes, I do own quite a few…

Gimme, AB or CP or TQD or Battlefield or………….

Any day!

Tim,

This is the topic on Elhiem where I posted the rest of the pics…

link

And this is just the bunkers themselves…

link

Hope you like!

Well, I do WWII in 10, 15 and 25/28….BUT…….if there is anything that couldtempt me to dump 28 it's Tony Barton's sculpts……

20mm is THE scale for WW2. Now other eras and 20mm does not offer much. But WW2! You'd be foolish to use another scale!

I recently made the decision to move from "28"mm to 20mm and I invested about $350 USD in AB figures and MMS and Milicast vehicles. I just couldn't resist the realistic proportions of the AB figs any longer. There are no ranges in 28mm with depth that have human proportions in their sculpting.

That said, I've been shopping around for other 20mm figures, and many of those lines are not much better. Imagine increasing some 20mm figures to 28mm size, and you'd see the same grotesque proportions that many 28mm figures suffer from.

I finished putting together 2 MMS tanks, and they have more detail than any 28mm line.

One man's opinion…

I admit that after looking at Elheim's website, it does make me drool over 20mm WW2 miniatures.

Perhaps Victory Force Miniatures are more representative in terms of accuracy for the 25mm-28mm scale. Although BAM is pretty darn good too.

Ironic, a good amount of the 20mm WW2 fans have posted on this thread, But I've yet to hear from any of the 28mm WW2 gamers (which by the way, post threads on the subject frequently)…

Tim,

The 20mm miniatures that I was refering to that look grossly disportionate is Britannia. (Their vehicles too).

"But I've yet to hear from any of the 28mm WW2 gamers (which by the way, post threads on the subject frequently)…"

Excuse the interruption. I use Victory Force figures so that would make me a 28mm player. I also own some 20mm and 15mm WWII figures of unknown makers. People should buy and play what they want. There should be no need for an X vs. Y scale debate. Asking for one is like trolling. I'm happy to let you 20mm guys feel good about your chosen scale. 20mm is the best. Carry on then.

>But I've yet to hear from any of the 28mm WW2 gamers (which by the way, post threads on the subject frequently)…

Hi Starsnbars1. I think the reason that many of us 28mm aficionados haven't chimed in is that there doesn't seem to be much point in debating the 28mm "haters". Look above and you'll see that people who like 28mm have been told "why bother", that we're "hallucinating", and that the figures we like are "grotesque," "embarrassing," and look like "gorilla children".

I game WW2 in 1/300, 15mm, and 28mm, and my current favourite is 28mm. I like the detail of the figures, the look of the terrain, the size of the games (platoon per side with perhaps a few tanks). My favourite manufacturers are Bolt Action, Crusader, Foundry, Artizan, and (old) Black Tree. I own vehicles by Solido, Bandai, Tamiya, Bolt Action, and others, mostly in 1/48.

I love AB's 20mm WW2 range, the sculpts are beautiful. I wouldn't knock someone for using AB figures to game in 20mm – hell, I'd love to play in that game myself for a neat change of pace! I think scale preferences are like art appreciation, different people like different things for different reasons.

Cheers,

w.

As I mentioned earlier, I like minis in all scales…well most scales, I skirmish game squad to company level so I have no real use for fiddling with 10mm though I like the figs.

If you want a "28mm" opinion, I will happily admit: "Hi, my name is Keith, and I love 28mm."

I really do. I came into historicals many years ago from Warhammer 40k. It was a natural transition to 28mm WWII. I knew how to paint them. The stylization felt right. I liked the look of all things oversized. I didn't grow up on soft plastics and 1/72nd scale models ( I know, I was deprived wasn't I?). Essentially, I felt at home with those ape looking 28mm figs. I love the big helmets, the big Mausers, the stylized look. It somehow WORKS for 28mm to be stylized that way. I don't know why.

And don't delude yourselves you 20mm guys…there is plenty of weird stylization and proportions and posing going on in 20mm. Take a look at CP models range (what you see in those things I will never know). SHQ has some weird things going on too. I think you don't see it as much because they are smaller and from table/game distance it works. Either that or I was deprived of oxygen. Could be both.

Except AB. Those suckers are perfect. They are wroks of art so much so that I feel I would only lessen their existence if I painted them (and I fancy myself decent with a brush). They are simply the ONLY thing to have temped me. You can have your plastics and limited poses boxes of soft, paint chipping figs and your weird CP models and all the rest… though I would take your vehicle selection any day. Oh if Corgi only made everything in die cast 1/50th. Of couse, with the wonderful work of AGNM, NZWM, Brent Dietrich models, and Bolt Action we are gaining ground!

Funny thing is, not 5 years ago you were severely limited in what you could buy in 28mm WWII. Now, the scale has taken off and we have a virtual smorgasboard to choose from. Of course, we aren't as spoiled as 20mm fans (especially when it comes to vehicles!). But I like having more choices for minis than ever.

Hell, I'm just happy to push some lead around…ANY lead. I can game those company level games in 15mm, then bust out my 28mm minis and do a single platoon vs platoon game. I can then break out some 20mm modern Falklands conflict minis and happily game away.

I agree with the above opinion that it seemed pointless to chime in on the 20mm roundtable discussion where they seemed to be having their fun (mostly at our expense *sniff sniff*).

But since someone asked for a lowly 28mm opinion, I figured I'd share:

I simply like the fact that we have such a selection that we are even able to HAVE this conversation. That says something about how spoiled for choice we have become as gamers these days. Just ask a Grumpy Grognard(tm) about the days of yore using "minis carved from soap and 1,000 page rulebooks and how they had to walk to the game store in 10 feet of snow uphill both ways…mumble mumble mumble".

And so, back to your regularly scheduled 20mm Grognard discussion. Let us misled 28mm masses know if you need anything else today, mmmmkay?

I offer myself as your 28mm whipping boy! haha.

Here's an interesting question. Perry Miniatures are 28mm and pretty proportioned from what I've seen. However they don't do a WWII range. If it's possible for them to make proportioned figures in other eras with 28mm, why isn't anyone doing so in WWII?

Well, so far, no new stifles – I usually get them when I blab about my dislike of the 28mm style. I'm sure that will change. But in the meantime…

Stars, I've never seen Britannia figures, but I do recall them being described as cartoonish when I first discovered
wargame conversations on the internet in 1995…

W, some of the comments, including my own might have been harsh. I do apologize for that, but please don't take it personally. These are, after all, just some of the opinions that were originally solicited. I've actually been on the other side; I will admit it is rather nice to vent after so many times in the past having endured the sort of exclusive snobbishness towards people like me "not being a real wargamer" because I use plastic figures.

I've also never seen or used AB figures nor any other metal figures except for a few SHQ German cavalry a friend has given me – for the most part I use plastics. As I mentioned, I consider myself a military modeller who wargames and our primary material (though not the only one, of course) is plastic…

Wait a minute Tim…

and I mean this in the nicest way possible and in a friendly joking way:

You mean to tell me you have been making fun of 28mm all this time and you haven't even SEEN most of the 20mm metals?

Methinks the disease you decry in 28mm is pretty prevalent in the 20mm metals category too, just in varying degrees and in different ways (where 28mm are on the fat side, 20mm metals are on the super tall, skinny, and stick up the arse look-often with a strangely serene look on the face too for a guy being shot at).

I will grant you, you are a firm supporter of plastics (good on you!), but man you honestly don't have much room to speak if you haven't even SEEN what the 20mm metals offer as "realistic proportions!"

tsk tsk my friend.

Just kidding man, I mean this in a joshing around kind of way. It is always fun discussing the objects of our collective obsessions.

Game on!

I think it comes down to this. Game with what you like. I collect and game with 20mm and 1/72 scale stuff. I also have collections of 15mm ancients and ACW. I also have a lot of 28 mm fantasy and sci fi and ACW. I dont think any one scale is better than another. I am tempted to do WWII in 1/35th. I have all the troops and vehicles. What prevents me is not haveing the space to use such a large scale in. So 20mm is great because I have enough room to do the size games I want. There is however, as some have pointed out a gross misproportion in some of the lines of 28mm figs I have seen, but I have purchased a few 20 mils sight unseen that seem to have elephantitis. they where that badly sculpted. What I would like to see is all the scales stay healthy and strong on the market. That way we have a selection to choose from.

GeorgeD

What amuses me is that it seems from some of the responses that '20mm' gamers are seen as ONLY having that scale.

I have 28mm. Lots of them. Even lots for WW2. Had 200 odd BTD Germans… But then it dawned on me… It was not worth it in my view to have that amount or indeed any really as I had so much in 20mm. I still have a few Artizan figures, mainly British Commandos as they are the least scary, so I like to think Im entitled to my opinions. And most vehicles are crap in that scale. Only AGN, S&S, Westwind and BAM have made decent attempts at vehicles. Some are very nice but still slightly 'cartoony'.

As for Britannia, yup they are 'cartoony'. I should know. I have a few hundred of them and I love em. Painted right they look fabulous and are an easy thing to paint. But not to everyones cup of tea.

And thats the point.

Everyone is different.

Its nice to see a topic that has turned to support 20mm instead of the usual drubbing that 20mm gets from 28/15mm gamers as a 'dying genre'. Utter balls.

Its also amusing to see the 28mm gamers on the recieving end instead of us poor 20mm Truists… ;-)

Regards

LPF

The Reverand Flint, founder of the Holy Church of the One True Scale.

If it's sculpting styles you object to then it doesn't really matter what size you look at if the figures are made of metal. 20mm figures in metal look pretty much like 28mm or 10mm. OK, AB are fabulous, but they are something special and pretty unique.

If you compare lead to plastic you'll see a difference in proportion in the majority of figures. This is primarily because plastics are sculpted much bigger and then pantographed down in size as the metal mould is sparked or machined out. So the plastic master being bigger it is far easier to keep proportions in check. On a 10mm figure you only need to be 0.5mm out on the helmet size and it looks wrong. Sculptors are getting better all the time, remember the stuff in the 70s in metal…Mikes models..

If you consider 28mm as a WWII "style/system/size" whatever, it has been floundering for a long while with conflicting ideas of what SCALE to adopt. Now there seems to be a concensus among manufacturers that 1:56th is the scale they want to be associated with. Now, as soon as you've got a scale you can start to scale down weapons and equipment and you get an idea of how far out you are.

On the 1:56th debate – I know there are people using all sort of scales, no problems there at all. We sell loads of figures to sit in 1:48th and run along side it.We've just chosen 156 as our "official" scale and we'll stick with it.

I know our (BAM) figures are improving from batch to batch, we're really looking to get as close to scale as we can in the future. It's hard to switch though, as our weapons are made and so is themajority of our equipment. ALso a step change in helmet size will not sit well or look right alongside our current range.

20mm (encapsulating 1:76th, 1:72,etc) has had decades of development put into it, 28/156 is a mere fledgling. We're here to provide an alternative, you don't need to game in one size exclusively, branch out and enjoy some variety. On my tables you'll see GHQ micro tanks, Minifigs N, 15mm, 1:35th and of course the mighty 28mm. I used to do Vietnam in 20mm, so there's some of that a well.

In the end variety IS the spice of life. Get some of it all and enjoy your self.

Best regards
Si@BAM

Well I have to say Si… the BAM Yanks are fine. The sculpting has come on in leaps and bounds with some excellent animation.

I bought a couple of squads cos they look so good. IMHO the best 28mm figures on the market. We use 28mm for a Mordheim style skirmish so as to use all the Mordheim ruins I made a few months back!

Looking forward to seeing the Italian Paras… And get cracking with some Fj! ;-)

See… Even 20mm gamers have their secret vices… ;-)

Frankly I can't see the attraction of 28mm for WW2 gaming – expensive, hard to store and heavy to carry and if you want to do 1:1 skirmish with BIG figures then 1/35th or 1/32nd does the job without all those figure/vehicle scale problems.

As for the other scales, well 6mm, 15mm & 20mm all have their place, so naturally I buy stuff in all three…

Don't get me started on 10/12mm.

I'll just plug the 20mm site elhiem.com mentioned but, not linked above :)

Anyone who has forgotton their password, email me elhiem@yahoo.co.uk and I'll sort you out a new one.

One parting comment, lads, whatever your choice of scale (hopefully the true scale 20mm) go out and buy figures. I know a lot do, but, there are a lot of people who prefrer to sit in front of the PC talking about figs they don't own. Its not an expensive hobby, and holding the metal in your hands is alot better than seeing a picture (trust me).

This isn't aimed at anybody in particular, just a reminder that these companys need your business, buy more they produce more.

At one point I was using 15mm for my skirmish, and 1/285th for larger battles. I didn't like either scale for either one of those purposes. They were just too small. Then I looked at 28mm or 20mm for skirmish. I liked the detail on 28mm, but when you stuck tanks on the tables, I thought it just looked silly to have such large vehicles a few inches apart firing at each other. 20mm worked much better for vehicles, and the figures were large enough that you could realy see who they were.

For larger battles, I have moved to 10mm because you can see what weapons the men are carrying.

So now I am quite happy with 20mm for skirmish, and 10mm for mass battles.

Ok. Ok. Ok.

I for one think the Elheim website is AWESOME.
But I also like TW Figurines website (28mm).

I would have to agree that if there was a WW2 game with beautful terrain and figs, I would be the first to jump in and play despite the scale size (20mm, 15mm, 10mm, 28mm, 1/35, and so on)

I think the real idea on this thread was to figure WHY gamers may prefer to switch scales (if they even do) or remain loyal to a particular scale, etc.

Thanks to everybody, there was some great Postings here!!!!

Well for me I used to do 20mm skirmish, but then got away from it for a while. Since then I had changed my painting style and I got back into WWII skirmish with 28's because I enjoy painting them more than 20's. Yes I can paint 20's quicker, they are easier to store, more selection….. But for some reason I have gone with the 28's. Coming from 20's, I won't disagree with people who like that scale. Though I am not a fan of 15mm for skirmish games below company size. The figures are just too small for me. I say we all band together and pick on the people who play with 54's. Just add in my 28's, Elhiem's 20's and GHQ's 6's and we come up to 54's!

Chris

I have 15's and I have 28's. Most of the rationales favoring scales are based on preference. Which is okay. I've liked what I've seen in both scales and would probably luv 20mm too. How about this for a ruling passion: frontage. How much frontage do you want to portray on the table? Platoon, company, or more. I like the Battalion frontages. If a company runs into trouble, you can send some help. Frontage guides my scale of interest. Wanna do big 28 frontage. Find a floor.

You mean to tell me you have been making fun of 28mm all this time and you haven't even SEEN most of the 20mm metals?

HI Ivan, that's correct. My name is Tim and I'm a plastic person.

Seriously, though, in fact, that's what I tried to qualify when I tried to emphasize I consider myself a military modeller who wargames and the fact I prefer to view this as 1:72 scale, the (infinitely more sensible than the mm definition IMO) and not any mm definition. I've already been gently and not-so-gently dumped on in this forum by a couple of people who've straight out said that it's not possible to "game" with the sort of plastic models and detail I put into many of them, so I kind of shrugged and said "OK, I'm not a gamer, but a military model wargamer".

I try very hard not to make this into a plastic versus metal debate, though the quality (good and poor, I might add) of the figures I use is largely a result of what the BAM fellow mentioned in terms of how plastics are sculpted. However, I have a large number of friends who use 28mm stuff (my site has this stuff hidden away in hobby show reports and possibly a couple of other areas) and they get very impatient with me when I chide them for using big headed figures and make it into a plastic versus metal debate.

Like all things we like/don't like, I've qualified what it is about the 28mm style I dislike in no uncertain terms. So what if I don't use metal figures? I'm a military modeller, and our medium is largely plastic (though well known modellers such as Steve Zaloga who do stuff in braille scale do use metal figures from time to time).

I agree, there are some 20mm metals that are in the same 28mm style and I wouldn't want to work with them. There are also some 20mm figures, SHQ, for one, where the human anatomy is faithfully represented at least in comparison to the…

SOrry I have to run, we're off to Spain for a few weeks and I have to leave…

I really like the "Little Gorilla Children" analogy…