Korvessa | 24 Mar 2023 10:32 p.m. PST |
to read, what would it be? I have read many, and next week I am checking off a major bucket list item and tracing my father's foot steps. So just curious, if you only had one book on Normandy what would it be? Why do you like it? |
Bunkermeister | 24 Mar 2023 11:46 p.m. PST |
The Longest Day by Cornelius Ryan. He spoke to hundreds of people from both sides, and civilians to research his book. Traveled the country and read the files and books. The movie is very good and the book is even better. link link Movie and Audio Book versions. Mike Bunkermeister Creek Bunker Talk blog. PS If I could have two, I would take Invasion, They're Coming, by Paul Carell from the German viewpoint. Covers a bit longer span of time after the initial invasion. link |
fantasque | 25 Mar 2023 2:15 a.m. PST |
Normandy '44 by James Holland |
Griefbringer | 25 Mar 2023 2:43 a.m. PST |
The Longest Day by Cornelius Ryan. Great book, and I read it last summer, but limited in scope to the preparations and the first day of the landings. Also, it concentrates on the low level eye witness stories, rather than trying to give a full picture. Still, it is a remarkable piece of research, on a style seldom seen. However, I think Ryan did it even better with his later "Bridge too far" book. If I could have two, I would take Invasion, They're Coming, by Paul Carell from the German viewpoint. Covers a bit longer span of time after the initial invasion. Another book that I have in my bookshelf, and that I consider great reading. This combines low level eye witness stories with a higher level narrative, and the time scope extends from the pre-invasion preparations to late August. That said, it might not cover every major piece of action that took place, and it has been criticized for glossing over some of the less pleasant acts by the Germans. |
Cattle Dog | 25 Mar 2023 3:17 a.m. PST |
Six Armies in Normandy by John Keegan. Read it when I was a young Trooper in the early 1980's. Regards Allan |
BillyNM | 25 Mar 2023 3:20 a.m. PST |
If you're tracing your father's footsteps you're better off finding a more detailed narrative of the operations his unit was involved in rather than a general campaign narrative. If you tell everyone what unit he was with I'm sure someone could help, although probably not me as my books nearly all focus on the British part of the bridgehead. |
Joes Shop | 25 Mar 2023 5:34 a.m. PST |
'Decision in Normandy' Carlo D'Este. |
ScottWashburn | 25 Mar 2023 6:53 a.m. PST |
Depends on what you are looking to get out of the book. If you want a rousing good tale then the ones mentioned above are all good. If you want the nitty-gritty details then I don't think you can beat "Cross-Channel Attack" by Gordon A. Harrison. It's part of the US Army Historical Series (the "Green Book" series) and it has a fantastic amount of information, great maps, and good photos. |
14Bore | 25 Mar 2023 7:11 a.m. PST |
My FiL ( long passed away now, was a D-Day vet in 149 Comat Engineer Bat. Got lucky in a short window that found out that day from a website from someone in same company they built a road off the beach. I only knew from my FiL he landed in the morning but no idea what boat or how he got to the beach. |
jgawne | 25 Mar 2023 7:12 a.m. PST |
The problem is that it is such a massive subject that any one book won't cover much in detail- Some will be heavy on the command decisions. Some on the naval part, some on the British role, etc Far too many books are just redigested versions of 'Cross Chennel Attack.' Personally, I would say "Spearheading D-day", but that's me. |
troopwo | 25 Mar 2023 7:14 a.m. PST |
"Caen" by alexander McKee. Written within fifteen years without any revisionism. |
mkenny | 25 Mar 2023 7:30 a.m. PST |
'Decision in Normandy' Carlo D'Este is a classic US style 'The Brits Sucked' view of Normandy. It is a complete hatchet job on Monty and The Commonwealth Forces. D'Este actual made up reasons to criticise Monty and one of his main ' scoops' was his claim Churchill had hidden 100,000 Infantry replacements in the UK and refused to send them to fight in Normandy. It was complete fiction and quite the most insulting accusation one could make about an Ally. |
mkenny | 25 Mar 2023 7:42 a.m. PST |
Books on Normandy fall into a couple of categories. By far the biggest is the 'Didn't The Germans perform magnificently' category' Heavily lace with tales of daring-do by heavily outnumber Tiger tanks,SS teenagers and a long laundry list of reasons why the better army lost. US published books tend to have a lot of 'drive-by' slights on Commonwealth performance. Casual mentions that certain Generals were 'overrated' and that a lot of ass-saving had to be done to help out the struggling Brits. British books are overly concentrated on tactical campaign history with a lot of detail down to platoon level. There is a further sub-category of 'Authors who are in Love with The German way of Fighting' and overly critical of their own nations performance. Mainly older works 1950s-80s and now considered 'classics'. Hastings, Keegan are typical examples with Reynolds being a more recent addition. These books are referenced a lot in German accounts as they can be used to claim 'even British people are critical of 21st AG in Normandy'. Your choice of books is entirely framed by what you want to hear and read. In my opinion the best overviews are The French Heimdal dual-language books. These books are fairly detailed with very good maps/ photo coverage and as they have no dog in the fight are very well balanced. The drawback is they are long out of print and usually very expensive from dealers. In short there is no one book that covers Normandy and your purchase should be guided by the area you want to research with a caution that you need to read books that are the opposite of what you believe if you want a deeper understanding of the campaign. Sticking to your comfort zone will not bring enlightenment. |
jgawne | 25 Mar 2023 7:51 a.m. PST |
Of Course, if you told us what your dad did, or his unit, we may be able to provide some more specific titles that will be of help. In the long run, (if he was in a US unit) you probably cannot go wrong by getting a copy of his regimental records showing their actual route. You'd have to hire someone to pull them from the archives, but it would be worth it. but you can get a pdf copy of Cross Channel Attack for free from the CMH, so you can carry it on your phone. link |
mkenny | 25 Mar 2023 8:00 a.m. PST |
If you can find the AARs of the Unit you want to follow then you have no need to purchase any book. |
noggin2nog | 25 Mar 2023 8:20 a.m. PST |
"Normandy: The British Breakout", Major J. J. How, MC |
troopwo | 25 Mar 2023 8:23 a.m. PST |
Caen:Anvil to Victory by Alexander McKee is an absolute gem. It goes into each offensive and what happened and why fairly well. Like I said, it was written not too long afterwards and quite clearly explains both the problems of terrain, the traffic hubs and the forces ranged against each sector. When you realize the what units were deployed and where, the course of events makes much more sense and all the postwar revisionism and slagging dies of the exposure it deserves. |
mkenny | 25 Mar 2023 9:10 a.m. PST |
Anvil Of Victory deals exclusively with the Commonwealth Sector. |
14Bore | 25 Mar 2023 10:21 a.m. PST |
Besides books ( and get any I see on D-Day) there are other helpful sites link And this just found today so will pour over it as well link If you know unit you might find which boat. As said my problem is Engineer battalions by company loaded piecemeal |
advocate | 25 Mar 2023 10:25 a.m. PST |
For D-day itself, it's hard to beat 'Sand and Steel' by Peter Caddick-Adams. A doorstep of a book, its pretty comprehensive on planning and the day itself. James Holland 'Normandy 44' is pretty good on the whole campaign. My favour Normandy book is 'Stopping the Panzers' by Marc Milner. It covers the first few days where the Canadians faced a heavy counter-attack and (spoiler alert) defeated it. |
Korvessa | 25 Mar 2023 10:50 a.m. PST |
My dad was in HQ company of the 1/507/82 (supply sgt). He landed near Orglandes and made it to Timmes' orchard, where he was wounded. That trip is a fun story that has made it to two books that I know of: Ambrose's book on Dday & Nordyke's book on the 82nd. Most books I have read say very little about fighting at Timmes Orchard. Here is the best I have found: link The Longest Day is probably the first book I bought on Normandy (middle 1970s) & my high school library had "Invasion they're coming." And of course I have several books on Airborne ops. He was awarded a Silver Star during fighting on La Poterie Ridge – finally got that place narrowed down and will be able to see that too. |
troopwo | 25 Mar 2023 11:16 a.m. PST |
Probably the best read is a personal memoir about the US offensive and the problems they faced is encapsulated in the book, "The Clay Pgeos of St Lo". The author was a company or battalion commander. It really goes into the problems of the hedgre row fighting. I just find it ironic that the most mechanised army in the world was stacking itself up on the landing beaches because the hedge row fights weren't developping at the predicted speed. As much as Caen Anvil to Victory explains the British Canadian and polish fights around the fields of Caen, The Clay Pigeons of St Lo gives a really good example of the problems the US forces faced. |
14Bore | 25 Mar 2023 12:10 p.m. PST |
Interesting event to my FiL was two weeks ( about, as not sure) he was wounded by a bayonet, wish I knew way more about how that happened. But do know after some period did go back to his company Does give me a chuckle reading about history on my normal Napoleonic reading bayonets didn't cause many casualties, I knew one man who it did. |
Heedless Horseman | 25 Mar 2023 12:34 p.m. PST |
Very interesting book… as 'Then and Now' pics. 'The Normandy Battlefields: Bocage And Breakout' Simon Forty, Leo Marriott, George Forty. 'Casemate'. Think I picked it up at Border Reiver… a while Back! Does Not go into detail… just atmosphere. Sometimes FB gets 'Then & Now' pics from contributors. AMAZING! There WAS a Panther in THAT ditch, there! |
jgawne | 25 Mar 2023 2:46 p.m. PST |
14Bore- 149th was part of the 6th Engineer Special Brigade, as I am sure you know. So 'Down Ramp'. But you would like Spearheading D-day. Korvessa- The 507th has a great many people who actively research it and should be able to provide you with a pile of documentation. You need to tap into the vast online paratrooper network. |
Korvessa | 25 Mar 2023 3:05 p.m. PST |
jgawne I have found some of them. One guy even helped identify some of the other troopers in my dad's photos. But if you know of anything specific, let me know |
Old Contemptible | 25 Mar 2023 8:58 p.m. PST |
"D-Day" – Stephen Ambrose |
Martin Rapier | 26 Mar 2023 1:14 a.m. PST |
For the campaign, Decision in Normandy by Carlo D'Este. I'm puzzled by the comments re bias against Montgomery above, if anyone gets slammed, it is Bradley fir failing to close the Falaise pocket. Can't say I've got a favourite for D Day itself. Six Armies in Normandy is fine as far as it goes, but shows its age now. |
mkenny | 26 Mar 2023 5:44 a.m. PST |
Decision in Normandy by Carlo D'Este. I'm puzzled by the comments re bias against Montgomery above, if anyone gets slammed, it is Bradley fir failing to close the Falaise pocket In Chapter 14 he makes the absurd claim that Monty did not 'draw off' II Pz Korps with EPSOM because the Germans had never intended them to be used against Bradley anyway! He then declares EPSOM a 'failure' by ignoring what II SS Pz Korps was actually trying to do and how its defeat was the battle that finally ended the last German chance to roll up the Allies. It was this German defeat that prompted Rundstedt to make his phone call to Keitel (that cost him his job) telling him to 'make peace'. If Rundstedt put his career on the line over it you would think D'Este could at least acknowledge the scale of the German disaster. What do you think of the totally made-up claim that The British were 'hiding' 100,000 Infantry replacements in the UK so they did not have to send then to Normandy? It is the big 'reveal' in Chapter 15, The Manpower Dilemma. The last 2 pages of the chapter. One of the suggested reasons is Churchill 'so mistrusts the eventual success of OVERLORD-and his military commanders-that he was simply unwilling to commit them to Montgomery………the evidence at present suggests that the Infantry shortage which plagued Montgomery and other senior commanders for the remainder of the war were in fact a myth. An obvious dig at Montgomery and based on a completely made up 'fact'. See Hart's Clossal Cracks for a thorough demolition of D'Estes slander in the 'Casualty Conservation chapter. Chapter 16 claims 50th Infantry Division and 7th Armoured Division 'failed' in Normandy. The whole chapter appears to be based on Hargest's 'Notes From Normandy' and has no problems using the standard idiotic claims against Commonwealth troops. instead of pressing on, the British stopped for tea, causing Gavin's angery battalion commander to demand 'What in the hell are they doing' Those are just samples. The whole book is riven with similar baseless criticism. |
PeterH | 27 Mar 2023 8:48 a.m. PST |
Normandy, The Real Story is one that doesn't get much promotion, but I thought it was fantastic. link The Americans at Normandy also very very good. link I also third the recommendation for Invasion, They're Coming At the end of it, you can drill down on Normandy so much that it's very subjective to talk about who's work is the best. This one is from the French civilians perspective and terrific. link |
Joe Legan | 28 Mar 2023 9:48 a.m. PST |
One book? As has been stated, The Longest Day. Cheers Joe |
Heedless Horseman | 28 Mar 2023 11:51 a.m. PST |
A relative who passed through Normandy… after fighting over said roads and fields STANK of dead… human and moreso, animals. Might have been Falaise… as main route East. |
laretenue | 29 Mar 2023 2:51 a.m. PST |
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Warspite1 | 31 Mar 2023 5:11 p.m. PST |
Caen: Anvil of Victory by Alexander McKee. Excellent on interviews and often quoted in other people's books. McKee lived in Portsmouth and was (later) the diver who rediscovered the Mary Rose. link Alternatives: 'Hill 112' (cornerstone of the Normandy Campaign) by Major JJ How or 'Hell on Hill 112' by George Bernage. This later is large format and heavily illustrated being a translation from a French book. 86th Anti-Tank Regt RA (see my other entry, below) is mentioned several times. Barry |
Warspite1 | 31 Mar 2023 5:16 p.m. PST |
@Headless Horseman: The smell of human decomposition was something which my late father (86th Anti-Tank Regiment Royal Artillery at Hill 112 and Maltot) said you never forget. He said there were sunken roads full of dead men and dead horses in the Falaise Pocket, among other places. In 2014 my late son (31 years) was found dead in a 35 deg C flat (US: apartment) in eastern London. He had been there for more than two weeks in a very hot July. I found out that my late father was absolutely right when we later cleared out my son's flat. It is a smell which you NEVER forget… unfortunately. Barry |
Heedless Horseman | 31 Mar 2023 7:34 p.m. PST |
Warspite 1, so Sad for experiences. I have known dead who had lain in C Flats… but I, not been there. All I can say, for berieved, is… when Ma Died… and not really 'clean', Funeral Parlour took her away, same day. She returned for weekend, looking absolutely lovely… 'better' than she had looked. A night, day and a 1/2… and I closed the lid… 'things' were 'starting'… and that ain't nice. so, DO NOT LEAVE THINGS TOO LONG. A 'comfort' to have them back… but… Say Goodby. x |
Warspite1 | 01 Apr 2023 6:41 a.m. PST |
@Heedless Horseman: It is something I have got over but thank you very much for your kind advice. If interested, the background is here: link Oddly I am a former journalist and spent many many hours in Walthamstow Coroner's Court listening to other people's inquest hearings, I never once thought that would one day report on my own son's. In life nothing is certain – so I am off to walk my dog! Barry |