"Take off the mask, you look stupid" Topic

I gotta admit: AdeptiCon has a fare share of mask wearing. Didn't they get the memo, COVID is over. You are butts to balls in there and you really think that mask is doing anything?

It has been suggested that introverts liked mask wearing as an emotional shield. These gamers are young and it's saying something when the Oxygen Tank guy has no mask.

Oh and don't get me started on walking from your car wearing masks outside traveling with your social bubble (mixed masks). Tell me you had your mask on in the car!

You do understand of course that the mask is not for the wearer's benefit?

Is "people looking stupid" a fair subject for discussion now? Or a "class attack"? :)

Some people have certain physical problems that a mask could be helpful. I myself think that the mask lockdown was stupid , (Swedens approach proved to be the best answer), however, if an individual wishes to wear a mask that is their business. Tolerance for others should be our behavior in the wargaming 'church'. For most of us, the mask was like a condom with a hole in it.

Very well put Mildbill!

You can make a fuss about everything!

Last week I had a student get COVID and the merchant next to my gallery also got it. COVID is not over. The CDC still recommends that persons testing positive should isolate for five days and mask in public five days after that. If people feel it necessary to wear a mask to protect themselves or others is it your place to call them stupid? Perhaps you might ask yourself why you find mask wearing so threatening.

mask is not for the wearer's benefit?

This NON mask wearer doesn't care what you do. I may ridicule your behavior but by all means "you do you"

Some people have certain physical problems

As noted, they aren't the mask wearers it's the young blue hair pronouns type with the mask. Elmo's preferred pronouns are "Royal Highness" or "your Grace". BTW

Masks are still required whenever you go into a doctors office. I will continue to wear a mask whenever I am in a crowded situation, or when I'm too close to someone who is not vaccinated. I'm protecting myself and more importantly my family.

Maybe they just don't want to experience the famous smelly unwashed nerd. Maybe you should worry about you, and not what other people do that doesn't impact you at all…

My doctor's office does not require masks, nor does any other business I enter.

The truth about masks:
A surgical or cloth mask protects others from the sneezes, coughs and spit of the wearer. If you aren't sneezing, coughing or spitting, such a mask is completely useless.

But even then, the above isn't relevant when a virus is airborne— that means, when it can be transmitted merely on the air particles of one's breath as opposed to being transmitted solely on much larger "wet" particles like mucus and spit. If a virus is airborne, as COVID-19, then sneezing, coughing, etc., aren't the prime cause of the spread. Simple breathing is.

COVID-19 has a diameter of 180 microns (give or take). An N-95 mask filters out particles down to 300 microns (give or take). So expecting it to stop airborne COVID-19 is like wrapping your head in chain link fencing and expecting that to stop bullets.

Finally, the most extensive study in the most well respected medical journal found no clear evidence that the masks had any appreciable effect on the spread of COVID-19. link
The authors do recognize that it's almost impossible to assert that the masks had no effect, given the difficulties of actually tracking how anyone acquired the disease, or how correctly anyone used the masks. But even so, one cannot assert with any evidence that being masked definitively protected anyone, or offered any definitive protection to anyone else.

At this point, a mask is essentially either an affectation or a calming mechanism for one's personal fears.

But I'm not going to attack anyone for wearing a mask— after all, I don't know what other illness they might have, and perhaps they are indeed acting to protect others. Though honestly, if you're that sick WHAT THE H-E-DOUBLE-TOOTHPICKS ARE YOU DOING AT A CON?!?!? STAY HOME, YOU SELFISH TWIT!!!!!!!

Ah… that felt better.

Not this conversation again.
But anyway, what's it to you? If somebody feels more comfortable wearing a mask, so what? The fact that you even take such note of it, feel strongly enough to go to the effort to post about it, well…

Would be an interesting study to find out why individuals feel so threatened by someone wearing a mask – regardless of effectiveness, CDC guidance or other rationale

@Mr Elmo.

As we're using supposition and a broad brush.

This NON mask wearer doesn't care what you think, but it seems that all your assumptions are wrong

My personal favorites are people wearing a mask and/or the full face shield, driving in their car….alone!

@parzival

The link is to discredited Cochrane study. Masks do work.

How do we know Cochrane paper is wrong? Because the Cochrane people apologized for it, and stressed that many uninformed people are drawing the wrong conclusions from it.

The Cochrane Review has apologized for an evidence review that led many to conclude, inaccurately, that masks don't work.

link

Having been to Asia many times where mask wearing was common a long time before COVID (for different reasons) I think if someone wants to wear a mask, they can wear a mask

For a lot of people, sometimes it's because they have a headcold, or may be showing signs of coming down with something, (which means they should have stayed home in the first place), while other times they may have weakened/compromised immune systems.
Still others are still "afraid", and some are indeed "psychologically attached" to the mask in public.

I know that right now in my area, ALL VA hospitals and clinics still require you to mask up.

Heh. Just back from a visit to my kidney doctor -- so patients tend to older and less healthy generally. Masks are "required." I paid careful attention: MAYBE half the staff were really wearing theirs, as opposed to nose uncovered. And about half the patients, ditto. I haven't had COVID and am in several categories of risk, but refuse to live the rest of my life in fear. My doctor came in wearing hers, but removed it when I asked, because my hearing is such that the mask is a serious reduction in my comprehension of what she is saying.

It is mostly for show, I am convinced. One more box to check, that doesn't really mean much.

And I agree with Parzival.

People can do what they want. If someone wants to wear a mask for no other reason than to reduce their own anxiety, why would I care?

People also wear and display religious "artifacts", thinking those trinkets will protect them from harm. Try to explain to them that they don't work, that they are only talismans.

Last year went to a boardgame con with 1,500+ people, mostly healthy Millennials and Gen-Z'ers. Most wore masks, even the little kids. Amidst the din of the game rooms, I could rarely understand what the bleep those masked-up gamers/GMs were saying at our game tables. How the hell do they understand each other? I got tired of saying "what?" all th time. Eventually left the con early and turned the weekend into a small vacation.

Went to a local miniature con, where most of us had multiple comorbidities and were much older. A few guys were wearing masks. That's all. I found it ironic. Biggest complaint was about the cold air conditioning. Had a great time.

I've had Covid 3 times so far. My wife says I'm trying for a record.

Mask wearing was/is the duck and cover of the 21st century. Its not saving you and its not protecting anyone, its just a safety blanket. If you're in prolonged contact with others and they're infected you're gonna get it anyways.

"It is mostly for show, I am convinced."
Really? What, these people are arrogantly virtue signaling, or some such?
Even if they are deluding themselves, they are 'mostly' doing it for health reasons.
And again, so what? Live and let live without all the judging.

Incredibly classy discussion. The amount of tolerance displayed in this thread for other individuals' personal choices (that don't infringe upon anyone else) is really admirable.

I still have to don one at my Drs office, outside of that I don't. Don't really care if others want to. Has no personal impact on me. Are you really that worried about it?

My deity – some people are just never going to give up on complaining about what other people do. If someone wants to wear a mask-you know what, it's a free democratic country and they can if they want to.

COVID is over

Or, as UK reported today,75% increase in cases in the last week, and still ~8000 people in hospital at any one time. Death rate is way down though. Still a week or two in hospital is definitely something to avoid.

You do understand of course that the mask is not for the wearer's benefit?

You'd think so by now – altruism is hardly the most difficult concept to understand.

This NON mask wearer doesn't care what you do. I may ridicule your behavior but by all means "you do you"

Great, that's really big of you. Thanks for the permission. Presumably, you're ok with being mocked on an open forum because of your dumb shoes, dumb t-shirt, dumb hat, dumb…. fill in the blank for all the other dumb stuff you have and do. Because some of those mask-wearing convention attendees will be on TMP, but it seems like mocking people in a group attack is now acceptable under the forum rules (despite what the forum rules say).

Sheesh.

Covid will never be over. I don't think it is as deadly as it was. We are growing more used to it and will have to live with it from now on. That being said, some people still feel more comfortable wearing a mask or have health issues so they wear a mask. Yes, I agree it can look a bit odd when almost everyone else isn't wearing a mask anymore but it is a free country as people have been saying.

I wish more people would wear masks but I have a selfish reason. I have lymphoma and am undergoing chemo so my immune system is pretty much gone along with most of my hair. :D

I used to work a late shift. It was cold as heck one night when some of us went outside on a break. I zipped my parka up to my neck and drew the hood tight around my neck and head. Toasty.
A co-worker came out with no headgear and his parka open necked. He said, "Do you know how stupid you look?" I looked at him and said, "Do you know how stupid you look?"
Allow people to be stupid.

Tell it to my dead wife. She was only 56 when she got COVID around Christmas 2021. She died on 10 Jan 22. I drove her to the ER in my car. I wore a mask and had my booters. She only had the original dose. I could never get her to take the time to go get her boosters. All I know is she died, and I didn't get it in spite of sitting in the car and in the ER with her. Maybe the mask and the vaccine saved me and maybe not, but I'll continue to where the mask in crowds and get whatever booters I can get. I had pneumonia when I was in my 40's and it's not how I want to go out. I'd rather eat a bullet.

If you want to wear a mask have at it, don't care. The one time I think it does look a bit dumb is wearing a mask, in your private car, by yourself. That seems a bit odd. Now a requirement to wear a mask? Won't go. Have to at doc appts but that's it.

I wear a mask in crowded places, especially grocery stores and drug stores where I figure people go whether sick or not because they need to. Some other places I am looser, but Mr. Elmo has begun the argument I wondered if someone without a mask would start with me in a store. Mr.Elmo is now free to do what he wishes regarding mask/no mask. So am I. What more needs saying.

Gear Pilot – My condolences on the loss of your wife. I can't begin to imagine how difficult that was, and must still be.

Anything to do with military miniatures on here?

I wear the mask but no pants. It is sometimes hard to determine why people are ridiculing me, or why I get kicked out of games and conventions.

I also paint teensy tiny masks on every second 18mm soldier. Then the game quickly deteriorates as the masked and unmasked warriors bash each other and run to their wee word processors to send cutely worded social media posts back and forth. I turn out the game room light and go to bed, with a sigh, but I can still hear them, ever so faintly, into the small hours, clicking away, their historical causes and combats forgotten…

I have been wearing a mask for years…. I'm Batman!

I like threads like this, it tells me who to put on "ignore" and that stars with the OP

@Tony S

The Chochrane study is not discredited. The authors merely said the conclusions were misunderstood. The study still stands.

Note what I said; the study found no clear evidence that the masks were effective in preventing the spread of COVID.

And that's exactly what the study found— they could not establish that it did anything… but I acknowledge that they also couldn't rule it out that it did, either.

BUT given that the virus is airborne and is smaller than the particle size for which N95 masks are rated— which is far smaller itself than the particle size for surgical masks or cloth masks— then it is more logical to conclude that the masking likely had little effect than that it had an unprovable positive effect. It is the combination of factors which matter, and I was addressing all of them. In any case, the burden of proof is not on the skeptic, it is on the people asserting a positive result for which they cannot as yet point to any definitive evidence.

In any case, the mask wearing public seldom properly fitted masks to their faces. If you don't have a tight seal around your mouth and nose on all edges of the mask, the mask isn't going to be effective against the intake of air bearing the virus. You've got half a fence around your yard and expecting the neighbor's dog not to walk around it.

And surgical masks were never designed to protect the surgeon— they're designed to keep droplets from the surgeon's mouth and nose from contacting the patient as the surgeon works. They do nothing about the surgeon's breath. So, as I said, if you're sick and expelling droplets, the surgeon's mask might help protect others from you. That's fine. But with an airborne virus, it's not much protection; the better protection would be not to be around others at all. Thus I am not angered by those who do not wear a mask, nor am I made more confident by those who do. But I am angered by those who propose pablum solutions to the public, or those who ignore their own symptoms and put themselves in situations to potentially infect others. The sick should indeed quarantine… but there is no reason nor advantage for the healthy to do so.

In any case, that surgeon's mask is NOT going to stop the wearer from contracting the disease, and neither is a cloth mask… or probably even an N95.

By the time the virus was loose in the population of China it was already too late. No actions were going to stop it from spreading; and I think the evidence suggests that none actually did. Even the vaccines wound up serving, at best, as an advantage in recovery, though we can't really be certain that the improved numbers aren't just a factor of the mutated, milder strains becoming dominant in the population, or the rise of natural immunity (or at least "improved resistance/recovery") as the disease spread. There's not enough data, nor enough time to know. And I say that as someone who was vaccinated and double-boosted and still caught the disease— though my symptoms were brief, mild, and I recovered with no perceptible long term side effects. Granted, I also was prescribed Paxlovid— though my wife, who came down with the disease about three days after I did, was not prescribed any medication, and recovered in about the same time frame and with as mild or milder symptoms than I. Did the Paxlovid help me? I don't know. Did the vaccines help me? I honestly don't know that either. It may be impossible to know.

Was COVID a tragedy for many? Yes. And I sympathize with Great Pilot; I can't imagine the pain of your loss, or the loss of many, many others around the world. I was saddened to read your account, and offer my sincere prayers.

But if we want to stop this sort of thing from happening again, we need to discover the truth about the cause, definitively and without political bias on anyone's part. I for one, suspect that it was indeed a man-altered virus accidentally leaked by a poorly run facility. It seems to me that the evidence points solidly to that, and the denials strike me as attempts to save face or avoid responsibility. Could I be wrong? Yes. I am not an expert on this. Indeed, I'd prefer to find out that I am wrong, and that those who are supposed to protect us did their jobs and just came up against an act of Nature no man could have foreseen. But alas, I do not think that is the case. And that angers me more than any lay person's response.

+1 Fitzovich!

Mr.Elmo is now free to do what he wishes

Maybe this is a Chicago thing. I kid you not Mrs Elmo was in the Woodfield mall and she says the guy in front of her in the checkout turns around and says: "I think you should stand back farther, you might have COVID"

So, Mrs Elmo, ever the wallflower, responds "I don't give a what you think, turn around and shut the up"

Strange, masks are no longer a think is Elmo's world.

Parzival, you may be right. Non of this excuses Mr Elmo of his rudeness on commenting on others who do not behave as he does, or in bringing up this off-topic and obviously contentious issue.

@gear pilot – Commiserations on your loss.

FWIW I choose to wear a mask when these factors start mounting-up:

- Indoor space: Small +1, Badly ventilated +2
- People: Crowds +3, Many +2; few +1, none -1
- Noise: People shouting or singing +3, talking +2, silent -1
- Others: Ill people +2, old people +1, health-care setting +2

As I've been working from home for the past few years my immunity to influenza, common cold, bronchitus, etc has been greatly reduced – I don't want any of these. NB Some years flu is a mass killer in UK.

I believe that I've managed to escape CV-19, but if I get it from you then I'll be dead: Male, middle-aged, hypertensive, overweight, A+ blood type, family kidney disease.

YMMV.

"In any case, that surgeon's mask is NOT going to stop the wearer from contracting the disease, and neither is a cloth mask… or probably even an N95."

While it is true that a standard surgical mask primarily (modestly) reduces transmission from the wearer, there is probably some small efficacy in protection for the wearer as well. There is certainly no harm! A properly fitted N95 mask is another matter altogether. It isn't fool proof (what is?), but it is pretty good.

COVID is most assuredly not "Over"; it is endemic. What has changed is that at this point, most of us have either had COVID (once or more), had multiple doses of vaccine, or some combination thereof, so that the number of people who get seriously ill from it (hospitalization or death) is way down. Thank goodness! It is probably a threat on the order of influenza now, and that is likely to continue essentially forever. Influenza still kills 10's of thousands of people in a good year. Like Influenza, COVID will occasionally make low risk people very sick and/or kill them, but most severe illness will, as usual occur in the most vulnerable – the elderly (especially age 85+), the immunocompromised, persons with chronic severe illness, and so on. Fortunately, we have a MUCH better idea how to treat COVIB now as opposed to 3 years ago, tests are readily available, etc.

Peter Anderson, MD

Non of this excuses Mr Elmo of his rudeness

I'm just trying to help people overcome their ignorance. So YOU Mr. Mask over hipster beard who comes to breakfast with 3 unmasked buddies and sits down and drops the mask. If you think you can't get COVID while seated at a restaurant, you are wrong.

I know we thought this when restaurants first reopened, that is false.

I don't find masks much of an inconvenience and I am convinced that they do have health benefits. I used to get 3 or 4 bad colds each year on average. Since I started wearing masks I haven't had one. If they are protecting me from cold viruses (and they clearly are) they might well protect me from other things, too.

Hardly anyone in the UK is wearing a mask these days. In our local shopping centre this morning I saw maybe 2 or 3 people wearing one and one of those had it below their nose, which of course renders the mask completely ineffective.

@Mr Elmo

Speaking of ignorance. I repeat wearing a mask isn't for your benefit, it's for the safety of others if you are infectious.

Can we sit and digest that for a while, or do I have to keep posting it until the ignorant catch up?

"Some people," being me. And I addressed exactly what you said— I said the masks serve to contain the releases by infectious people of large moist particles— sneezes, coughs, spit.

Sigh…