"Russian attitude towards war" Topic

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Americans all too often presume that everyone else aspires to live and think as we do. Others must share our values, if only in secret, or at least be eager to learn them. This is a dangerous attitude to take with any nation or culture, but perhaps especially so with Russians—and never more so than when the topic is war. Russians simply do not think about war in the way Americans do.

Wars figure in American history, of course, but they do not define what it is to be an American. (A partial exception may once have been the Civil War in the imagination of some Southerners.) The military in the United States may be respected, but it is not sacred, and criticism of it does not constitute blasphemy, as criticism of the Russian military often does. Of course, the United States has never been occupied by a foreign power.

Well, again, except for the south.

Once one grasps how Russians think, one understands why Putin declares that Russia is now fighting not the Ukrainian people but fascists, and why he pictures Russia as the underdog in a struggle with NATO. Also clear is his confidence that Russia can outlast its foes and that Western powers will tire of paying for a war before Russians tire of dying in it.

everyone else aspires to live and think as we do

When I was in Russia, I asked our translator "which country was responsible for winning WW2. I know the answer is the United States but they, of course, said Russia! We'd all be speaking German if it wasn't for the Soviet military.

The USA 🇺🇸 is still the best.

Russians as an ethnic group are vanishing rapidly.

Russians are not an ethnic group.
This is conglomerate of different former ethnic groups who losed their roots: finno-ugrish, slavish, turks etc.
As Turks says, in their language (and russian language is also 30% turkish) the word Russian even means – people without roots and nationality.

An interesting article. I still think we need to support the Ukrainians and be ready to defend the Baltic states and Poland, but this insight into Russian thinking (and our own knee-jerk "Wokism" about Russian arts) is enlightening.

Mr Elmo, don't you know that the Russians were battling the large majority of the German Army, far more than the Americans were.

The Americans did probably save France from speaking Russian, though.

But could the Russians have beaten the Germans without lend-lease and the second front?

ALL the Allies won it, but with massive extra logistics aid from the US ie., the Arsenal of Democracy.

70% of Axis losses were on the Eastern Front. Regardless, The US/UK tanks, trucks, etc., sent there certainly did help the USSR to defeat the Axis. They may have defeated the Axis anyway ? Without a Second Front ? As they don't care how many men, how much equipment, etc. would be lost. As we see today in the Ukraine.

Russia is a huge land mass. They could trade space for time. Pulling the Germans, Italians, etc. lines of communication further and further …

A former CIA officer who worked in Russia in a recent interview said the Russians claim to have lost 28 million in WWII. We may never know. But they were going push the Nazis, etc. out of their nation no matter the cost. And occupying many Eastern European counties turning them into buffer zones, making them Communists, milking their natural resources, etc.

As we see, many of those former WP nations joined NATO after the USSR fell. They did not like being occupied by Russia. And the Ukraine does not want to be occupied today either.

It has been said that in the West at least. General Foods, General Motors and General Electric won WWII. But today … that may not be the same paradigm …

Winston Churchill Said it was the Russians whoo tore the guts out of the German army. In 1943, 25 German Divisions were in France, 12 in Italy and over 300 in Russia. Of course, it was the US who beat the Japanese.

Add US and British Air power, which eventually drained a lot of the best Luftwaffe and flack(anti tank guns). Not to mention the Damage inflicted on the Germans. Also taking out of the German Navy.

MDDriessen +1

35th +1

The Ruskis overstate a bit their ww2 losses, and then swallow the losses of the millions ?(hiwis etc.?) of locals who actually fought against it. I had a few times this talk "over there" with locals. Many ignored completely the HIWIS, and it was sure down played. Then maybe a good half of the losses were civilians. Something that had a profound mark on the locals (mostly western part of the CCCP).
The anglo-saxon "world" cannot start to fathom this, having been fortunate not to experiment it.
As for their homogeneity, as a French, I was surprised how, despite this myriad of "people" they manage to work nicely together, and for centuries. Remember, many of our well known generals of XVIIIth-XIXth century "Russians" are from Tartar or Caucasian ancestry. They have an easy going uncanny way to go together. It was disrupted for a while by the mus brotherhood/saudi backed money propaganda coming in in the 90s and the soros-types, till Vlad-the-boss closed the bank and conduits.
90% of them (and maybe 75% of the rest of the world!) do not at all aspire to "be like Americans" and certainly think or accept the whole bull coming from that side.
It does not mean they don't want to live in peace, but live their own way.
From 3-5 months a year there over 10 years experience, and living with a "thinking" one.

Generally, I'd think most Russians don't want to go to war. They want to live in peace if for no other reason the massive losses in WWII. Whatever those actually are. We may never know. The Russian leadership is not forthcoming with any facts from any era.

As in any nation, its leadership is the deciding factor. When it comes to almost most anything. E.g., economics, geopolitics, military strength [or weakness], etc.

The losses of Soviet combatants (not only the regular army, but also the militia, partisans, etc.) in the Second World War are about 11 million people.
Of this number, from 2 to 4 million are prisoners of war deliberately destroyed by the Nazis. For example, the bulk of the prisoners of war in 1941 were simply placed in empty territories surrounded by barbed wire and they were hardly fed. There they spent the entire winter of 1941-42. The vast majority of them died. A large number of "Hee-wee" is explained precisely by the desire to survive, and not die in such a camp from hunger and cold. Only when the war took on a protracted character and Germany needed slave labor did they begin to treat the prisoners somewhat better.
The rest of the victims are civilians, often deliberately massacred by the Nazis.

Yes Yevgeni,
The little chains hanging in the mausoleum in Victory Park is overwhelming.
There was a nice series on a bunch of ww2 pilots done a few years ago, the main character got shot down, captured by some German logistic unot. Evenly done, he was presented with the choice of a fair treatment there helping them (also told by other pows) or be sent to dubious rear camp.

"Americans all too often presume that everyone else aspires to live and think as we do. Others must share our values, if only in secret, or at least be eager to learn them. This is a dangerous attitude to take with any nation or culture,…"

The idea that other cultures, nations, people, etc. don't want or aren't capable of democracy, individual liberty, rock and roll, whatever, has been around for a while. Most recently I heard it said about the Arabs/Iraqis and Afghanis. I disagree. You would have said the same thing about the Japanese in 1941, Germans in 1939, Koreans, in 1950, Philippines in 1990, etc. Every group of people given a decent education and the chance has chosen western style democracy.

Its an interesting contrast and may influence folks decisions.

Cuprum2 posts eludes to 2 to 4 millon Pow's in WW2. Russian now only has about 7 million men of roughly conscription age, they are nolonger have access to huge numbers of military fit manpower of WW2.
Squandering even 1 million in a war with no success is a really hard fight. Some estimates put Russian losses (dead) at about 170,000 or 0.2% of the population that is key to any post war recovery, and that is in just over a year and the losses are growing fast at the moment. It may reach 0.4% of the population by the end of the year assuming a relatively low loss rate of 400 per day. Recently that loss rate has been in the 600 to 980 men per day. That may influence what kind of govenment you want to live under.

Now tha latest estimates look like about 900,000 have fled Russia to avoid consription, which of itselt is 13% of the consription age young folk. Will that change the attitude of the rest? Harder as its onlythe older age folk left, or mpre moderate as the old folk want there ypung folk back?

Hardly they can have 170000 dead out of what? 300000 pros at the beginning, plus say 200000 additional and replacements?
if 1700000 dead then 400000 wounded?
Sounds like ww2 air victories when 300 of the 120 planes were shot down.
Again hardly 900000 fled. no money for that. maybe 1000000 It and sons of some wealth. Sure most youngsters are not interested and do not want that fight.
Propaganda to be believed has to be careful with the possible / plausible.
What about the 5 millions Ukr living in Ru? and the other 5-8 millions refugees elsewhere? I saw some, young ones who could be fighting instead. Many are of the same types as the Ru who fled.
The whole story is such a bloody sorry shame.

Jcfrog see

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We tend to think people from all over the world want to be us, but in fairness this may be due to the daily arrival of people from all over the world wanting to be us.

Not a lot of people packing their bags and telling their kids, "we're off to find a better life in Iran!"
Or any of our other regular foes.

Many from the "stans" have gone to find a better life in Russia, but only because the stans go out of their way to be even crappier, and it's just a trip overland. The reality is revealed by the number of Uzbeks who choose the USA vs the number of Guatemalans choose Russia.

Ben +1

Yes, for as "terrible, racist, hot bed of white supremacy" etc. the USA is. Over 170 nations have illegal aliens crossing our open Southern Border. A border that is open not by accident. 6 million that we know of in just over two years. Are roaming the USA … what are they doing ? Hell if I know ?