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"Moscow loses its parks and forests to air defense systems" Topic

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Arjuna17 Mar 2023 1:39 a.m. PST
Andrew Walters17 Mar 2023 10:00 a.m. PST

I don't imagine anyone is preparing to attack Moscow with anything that S-400s can shoot down. They're either paranoid or planning to do something that will provoke a larger response.

Arjuna17 Mar 2023 11:06 a.m. PST

My two cents:
Propaganda measure for internal consumption.
The sentimentality of the Great Patriotic War/Battle for Moscow/We-are-surrounded-by-enemies folklore.
Attempting to fuel Russian paranoia through a climate of fear, of course.

Don't think the Muscovites buy that.
Putin has completely depoliticized them in his time.
'Don't care what we do and nothing bad will happen to you.
On the contrary, you will get something, not much, but still.'
'You can't do anything about that, can you? And you never know if there are no Nazis in Ukraine, do you? Just think of the Azov regiment! And NATO!'
At least something they can cling to in their miserable life.
Nihilistic apathy mixed with hysterical propaganda babble on TV.

However, an action similar to the apartment bombings back in 1999 would certainly be a possibility.
That gave a huge boost to Putin's career.

ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa17 Mar 2023 1:24 p.m. PST

Its all part of the theatre of existential threat that Putin has created to help keep himself in power. I suppose the next step is have Muscovites out digging anti-tank ditches to see off the rapacious billion man NATO army that's invading Russian to force them all to wear rainbow t-shirts…

Heedless Horseman Supporting Member of TMP17 Mar 2023 4:21 p.m. PST

Note: Russia threatening 'to destroy' jets and other 'hardware' bound for Ukraine. Prob expect some sort of 'retalliation'.

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP17 Mar 2023 5:34 p.m. PST

Well … A few weeks back near Atlanta, GA. The city was going to make a LEO, etc. training complex. So when they started cutting down trees and clearing land, etc. Antifa from the US and Europe rioted, burned construction equipment, threw things, etc. As they didn't want all those trees cut down. And they probably were not too happy with a LEO training site.

However, the Atlanta LEOs did not stand down. Even on Antifa clown shot at a cop and hit him. But didn't kill him. The LEO return fire killed this moron. Arrested a bunch these Antifa anarchists. They are being charged. And will serve time, AFAIK. They were mostly rich white kids. I'd send'm to Gitmo.

Now as we all know the Russians wouldn't put up with this sort of Bleeped text. And there would be more than one Antifa KIA …

Bunkermeister Supporting Member of TMP17 Mar 2023 8:19 p.m. PST

"Arrested a bunch these Antifa anarchists."

None of whom were from Atlanta and few of them even from Georgia.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek

Griefbringer18 Mar 2023 9:27 a.m. PST

The original article linked seems to be quite thoroughly investigated, and the provided map is quite interesting. However, overall this item of news left me a bit confused about what is actually going on behind all of this. I could come up with a number of scenarios.

1.) If I were tasked with providing proper air defense for the whole Moscow and its inhabitants, I would place the main missile sites (sufficient number of them) in sparsely built areas somewhere well outside the outer ring road encircling the city. I would also prefer positions where the equipment can be dug in and camouflaged, instead of conspicuous looking wide asphalt lots. I would also be rather unhappy to see pictures of the sites, and their locations, published in Internet.

2.) If I were tasked with awing the citizens of Moscow with the impression of providing them with air defense against imaginary threats, then I would prepare conspicuous looking positions in relatively visible spots around the city, and stock them with effective-looking pieces of hardware (whether they would actually work would not really matter). Preferably in positions with some close by commercial services (shops, bars, restaurants etc.) to keep the crews happier (and make them more visible to the public).

3.) If I were tasked with providing effective air defence to central Moscow (especially Kremlin and surroundings), with little regard to the safety of the common citizens or air defense crews, I would start to reconsider my career options.

4.) If I were a local politician or official that wanted to have a piece of forest or park turned into a parking lot without raising too much resistance from the upset common citizens, I would claim that it was necessary for the military defense of the city (and if necessary, hint that the security services would not look too kindly towards open protests).

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP18 Mar 2023 10:01 a.m. PST

None of whom were from Atlanta and few of them even from Georgia.
Yes, I heard a few were from France too. Again, we are allowed peaceful protest, demonstrations, and assembly by the Founding Fathers. Antifa and even BLM missed that … no actually ignored it …

I wonder if any Antifa members will be flying to Russia ? To protest the trees being chopped down for ADA.

with little regard to the safety of the common citizens or air defense crews,
That is a Russian & PRC/CCP standard. Their people are expendable. Just look at how Putin is throwing poorly trained troops into the meatgrinder of Bakhmut, etc.

I would start to reconsider my career options
They may also consider staying away from going into tall buildings, also.

ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa18 Mar 2023 10:56 a.m. PST

Based on some elements of the story No. 4. sounds very plausible particularly if there are property developers, local officials and brown envelopes of cash involved…

Theatre is still plausible – the regime probably aren't going to be telling even someone at the level of air-defence regiment CO that we're 'faking it'. Remember lies always work better with heavy does of plausibility.

Aapsych2018 Mar 2023 11:27 a.m. PST

Since someone brought up the Atlanta protests link

Let's not think that extrajudicial killing is also solely Putin's province.

Col Durnford Supporting Member of TMP18 Mar 2023 6:36 p.m. PST

Yea, attempt to kill a cop and it doesn't end well for you. Big surprise! As Alf said, You'll never take me alive – well that's a pretty dumb threat".

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP18 Mar 2023 8:13 p.m. PST

I did not hear about another protester being killed ? I await the rest of the information to be released, etc. Regardless, there were many Antifa anarchists there attacking LEOs, destroying construction equipment, etc. This 2d protestor being killed may have been CD. And that happens in this type of riot, when someone starts shooting at LEOs, etc. The article says his hands were up. We have heard this before. However, I await a less biased story from media other than NPR.

If you go to a protest and it turns into a riot. If that was not your intent, get the Hell out of there. If bullets start flying, you may end up as CD. Of course, LEOs can't read anyone's mind at this protest turned riot or any other.

Let's not think that extrajudicial killing is also solely Putin's province.
Putin's "body count" of his own people dwarfs by light years of people killed by LEOs, etc. in the USA.

This 2d protester being killed may just have been at the wrong place at the wrong time.

This article says at this time it is unclear what happened … link

Col Durnford +1

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP19 Mar 2023 2:16 p.m. PST

FWIW In the USA we have freedom of speech, the right of peaceful protests and assembly. That is what our Founding Fathers wanted. It has worked since the AWI. We all disagree with some ideas, beliefs, dogma, etc. of others in the USA. At times … That is a given.

However, some riot, burn, loot, etc. cities blocks, attack LEOs, torch their cars, pull down statues, etc., etc. Like had occurred 574 times in the summer of 2020. Or even Atlanta recently.

I support LEOs, etc. of all agencies. I do not support anyone who thinks defunding the police is a good idea. I think we see how that concept has worked out. Criminals who should be in jail are roaming the street committing more crimes, etc. Regardless I also don't support e.g. BLM and Antifa, etc., rioting, looting, burning down city blocks, etc. …

And yes, again, when e.g., BLM and/or Antifa protests turns into a riot … that is criminal. And people get hurt or even killed plus public and private property is destroyed, etc. As we saw 574 times in 2020. Similar to what happened in Atlanta as I mentioned. But when a protest turns into a riot … bad things can happen. And it does …

Being a former soldier, from my 10+ of training & experience as an Infantry Officer in my past. I know sometimes if one shoots … many shoot. Only a well-trained and lead unit can quickly cease fire.

So yes … sometimes 💩 happens …

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