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"Austrian Flintenkartasche?" Topic

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Personal logo gamertom Supporting Member of TMP12 Mar 2023 5:29 p.m. PST

According to the Black Powder Supplement, A Clash of Eagle, this Austrian round consisted of three small ball fired at a range of 100 yards or less. I admittedly am not well read in Napoleonic minutia so this is the first time I have seen reference to this. It's one time use in the game gives a standard Austrian battalion 5 D6 firing at close range (so 3+ to score a possible hit) which can be pretty potent.
Is this round for real and just how common was its use? Was it used in the 1809 campaign?

rustymusket Supporting Member of TMP12 Mar 2023 6:18 p.m. PST

New to me and I did a lot of reading about Austria in Napoleonics. But I am no expert.

rmaker12 Mar 2023 9:36 p.m. PST

Sounds similar to the "Buck and Ball" round used by Americans – one standard ball and three buckshot. Reputed to be very nasty at close range. Given Austria's frequent conflicts with the Turks, I could see where they might develop this to discourage Turkish irregulars from closing.

Oliver Schmidt13 Mar 2023 5:01 a.m. PST

There is a drawing of them here:


According to the article (p. 159), they were used in the 7 Years War, each infantryman having six of them, in addition to the usual musket balls.

These cartridges were called Flinten-Kartätsche or Kartätsch-Patrone.

von Winterfeldt13 Mar 2023 5:41 a.m. PST

very interesting, I am not aware that those Kartätsch Patronen were in use in the Napoleonic period.

1809andallthat13 Mar 2023 8:04 a.m. PST

It looks as though the source is Austrian Grenadiers and Infantry 1788-1816 by Dave Hollins. On p31 it states "The number of infantry projectiles fired at less than 100 paces was increased with Flintenkartasche – three balls fired together against both infantry and cavalry."

Given it is by Mr Hollins I have no doubt as to its veracity however whether it is worthy of an adjustment in any rules is another matter. If it was a munition capable of significantly increasing casualties I would have thought that: a) other nations would have adopted it; and b) we would have had more references either directly to its efficacy or as to the effectiveness of Austrian volleys more generally. Add to that the logistics issues of having to re-supply a specialist ammunition alongside the standard cartridges and I rather think that its use wouldn't have been widespread.

Merely my opinion of course but strikes me as a bit of a gimmick to adopt it in any rules.

Bernard180913 Mar 2023 10:56 p.m. PST


Je ne connaissais pas cette munition spéciale autrichienne d'infanterie!

Mark J Wilson15 Mar 2023 3:04 a.m. PST

I'm with @1809andallthat, that it wasn't adopted by everyone shows it had no real additional value.

Major Bloodnok21 Mar 2023 6:49 a.m. PST

I believe the British during the War of 1812 considered it a "nuisance". I remember reading an account of a union soldier stopping to dig a buckshot round out of his knee, and then rejoining the fight.

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