"Dyeing uniforms black in the Napoleonic era" Topic

I asked ChatGPT:
before the use of chemical dyes, what was the usual way to dye clothing black?

ChatGPT replied:

"Before the use of chemical dyes, there were several ways to dye clothing black. One of the most common methods was to use natural dyes derived from plant materials or other organic sources.

One of the most popular natural sources of black dye was the bark of the oak tree, which contains high levels of tannins that can be extracted and used as a dye. The tannins in oak bark produce a rich, dark color when used to dye fabric. Other sources of black dye included logwood, which is derived from the heartwood of a tree native to Central America, and the leaves of the indigo plant, which could be fermented and processed to produce a deep, rich black color.

Another method of creating black clothing was to use a combination of dyes, such as combining a blue dye with a brown or red dye to create a deep, dark color. This process required skill and experimentation to achieve the desired shade of black, and the exact methods and materials used varied depending on the region and the time period.

Overall, creating black clothing before the use of chemical dyes required careful selection and processing of natural materials to achieve the desired color. It was a time-consuming and labor-intensive process, but the results could be rich and lasting."

Does anyone know what colour black uniforms would have weathered to? Inferentially, it sounds like oak-bark derived black might have been super-dark brown, while indigo-derived black might have been super-dark blue.

Maybe it is better to read a book than relying on a fancy software:

link

Surviving examples I have seen typically fades to dark brown in the case of ordinary grade* fabrics and very dark blue for superior grade**. Very occasionally I have seen the latter with a more greenish tinge than blue.

*issue uniforms, middle-class clothing, etc.

**private purchase uniforms, upper class clothing, etc.

Squids.

"Maybe it is better to read a book than relying on a fancy software:"

The fancy software has read all the books so we don't have to.

It actually gave quite a good answer.

I have read somewhere that the Russians used a black dye that faded to the green we all know. Indeed, in one translation of 'War and Peace' I read (I know, who reads more than one version) the Russian uniforms were actually described as 'black'.

I believe the Victoria and Albert museum have a black dress of hers. It has been kept boxed up and carefully conserved for decades away from light. Nonetheless it has faded – to a bright yellow ochre!

@ RvB

Obviously some sort of chemical process going on there, and a reminder that light is not the only thing that changes colours.

It's interesting to note that teak is darkened by sunlight. I've also had black t-shirts that after years faded to a decided greeny-dark grey.

The background reason for the interest relates of course to Brunswickers, and what colours are the best. I'm minded just to go with black shades, black grey main colour and dark grey highlights.

"The fancy software has read all the books so we don't have to."

Just for fun, ask ChatGPT a question, and whatever its answer may be, reply with "This is not true." or counterdict in other ways. Repeat denying the truth of its answers until you get bored or have arrived at an assessment of for what ChatGPT is good and for what it is not.

strange, surviving items also appear to be black, why not looking at original items?

link

That's a great link, thanks.

It does appear that in this era "light" blue was any shade of blue that wasn't dark…

Another thing to consider is that vegetable dies are a lot more batch specific and seasonal specific than modern chemicals, due to the varying amounts of pigment in different lots of the vegetable matter dependant on the the exact environment they had grown in. So for those of you who want to go to this length you perhaps need to throw in some variation if not within units at least between units.

The Brunswickers were reuniformed for 1815 if I am not mistaken so they possibly all looked similar, but I find by the fime I have shaded, highlighted etc nobtwo figures look exactly the same…

Just go with what YOU want to… bit of variation between figs!