"French Napoleonic Battalion cannon?" Topic

At recent Napoleonics game there was a discussion of countries using Battalion level small artillery. All agreed that the Prussians had these and British did not. There was disagreement about French use, 1809 – 1815.

Would someone please give us an answer to this, thanks

For the 1812 campaign, Napoleon assigned 2 pieces of regimental artillery (3 pdrs) to most of his infantry regiments – a number had four.

In 1813 some regiments had attached regimental artillery (usually 2 x 6pdrs).
For example from a quick scan of the return of 15 August regimental artillery shown with following infantry regiments:
IV Corps – 13th Line & 23rd line ;
V Corps – 134th, 135th, 146th, 147th, 148th, 149th, 150th, 152nd, 153rd, 154th & 155th line;
XI Corps – 6th & 112th line, 14th & 22nd light, 5th Italian line & 2nd Italian light.

The Prussians only had "regimental" artillery through 1806. After the Jena-Auerstadt debacle and subsequent pursuit (1806), their artillery inventory was very much reduced. Field artillery was consolidated into companies (also called batteries) and during the reorganization from 1808-1812 assigned to the brigades (read divisions) and corps.

For example, during the 1813 campaign the III Korps had one 6-lb foot battery attached to each of its four brigades (read divisions). The corps artillery consisted of two 12-lb foot batteries, one 6-lb foot battery, and one 6-lb horse battery. The other corps (I, II, & IV) were similarly equipped.

Jim

Weren't the "French" guns Austrian pieces that were captured in 1809 and parceled out for the 1812 campaign? I am sure I read that somewhere.

Actually the British did have battalion guns until about 1799 at least. They were nominal foot brigades broken down into halves and assigned to individual brigades, regiments or battalions. This was found to be cumbersome and inefficient and gradually, and rapidly in Spain, the guns were re-concentrated into brigades and used accordingly. So depending on your era, you could have battalion guns with British troops.

It is worth pointing out that Wellington's tactical use of artillery was entirely consistent with the old battalion gun style, i.e. he distributed it in penny packets among the unit to provide fire support. Some artillery officers on their own initiative did occasionally concentrate guns into semi-grand-batteries of two or three field brigades / troops, but this wasn't Wellington's practice. There's a case to be made that he didn't really understand artillery.

from previous discussions

in Pelet (tome 3, p. 449) there is the text of the decree of 9 june 1809 introducing the regimental artillery of 2 pieces of 3 or 4 to the french infantry line and light regiments…
Expédition en sera envoyée à notre major général qui en ordonnera l'exécution dans l'armée pour les bataillons qui s'y trouvent
What about the execution of the decree…? Did the regiments really have 2 cannons each at Wagram ? Where should have the 70 men of the regimental artillery company come from ?
Haythorntwaite (MAA 199) and Pigeard (Dictionnaire de la Grande Armée) give a list of regiments concerned (line : 2, 3, 4, 5, 8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 17, 18, 19, 21, 23, 24, 25, 27, 29, 30, 33, 35, 37, 42, 46, 48, 52, 53, 56, 57, 60, 61, 62, 65, 72, 79, 81, 84, 85, 92, 93, 94, 95, 102, 105, 106, 108, 111, 112; light 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 13, 14, 15, 18, 22, 23, 24; + fourth battalions of the 39th, 40th and 88th regiments)… that would mean 130 canons, 4550 men and 390 waggons supplied within a few weeks… could that happen before the armistice ?
On the 7th july Davout informs Berthier that he estimates his artillery to still have 70 or 80 pieces. Before Wagram, together with Grouchy, his reserve and divisional artillery had approx 120 pieces… I don't see to much room for any regimental artillery in these numbers, he would have had 28 regimental cannons with his 14 regiments.

Napoleon reviewed an artillery report on the 15th of July 1809 and notes the regimental cannon and the pieces with the divisions.
For Davout's Corps the numbers are:
- Regimental cannon – 28 pieces
- Divisional organization – 60 pieces
So, at that time (exact date of the report not stated) Davout had 88 pieces.
As you noted previously, Davout reported he had 70 to 80 available pieces on the 7th of July 1809. Over the nine, ten or so days in between, it strikes me as "reasonable" to return more pieces into service.
While it is clear there are different types of reports, I believe Davout was writing about all pieces assigned to his corps at the time.
I suggest reading through Napoleon's entire message as he eventually went through all organizations including the pieces in the park and with the troops allied to France. – R

Correspondence, publ. par ordre de l'empereur Napoléon III, vol 19, p. 41:
link
Correspondence, vol 19, p 41

As I wrote I shifted the actual form of what Napoleon was doing. He was setting targets and requesting a report. So, I should have written:
Napoleon requested an artillery report on the 15th of July 1809 and sets targets for the regimental cannon and the pieces with the divisions.
For Davout's Corps the numbers are:
- Regimental cannon – 28 pieces
- Divisional organization – 60 pieces
So, at that time Davout should have 88 pieces.
As you noted previously, Davout reported he had 70 to 80 available pieces on the 7th of July 1809. In about seven or so days in between, it strikes me as "reasoanable" to return more pieces into service.
While it is clear there are different types of reports, I believe Davout was writing about all pieces assigned to his corps at the time.
I suggest reading through Napoleon's entire message as he eventually went through all organizations including the pieces in the park and with the troops allied to France. – R
Correspondence, publ. par ordre de l'empereur Napoléon III, vol 19, p. 41:
link

Dear Paul:
Given what I have seen and recall, I believe some, perhaps most, of the regimental cannon were organized and with their regiments in time for Wagram.
Added to the various organizational orders in Napoleon's correspondence about wanting the regimental cannon organized with comments such as that in the letter previously (25 May 1809) that 57 pieces were "here", a few sources come to mind:
(1) Napoleon's orders for the crossing of the Danube where he notes the artillery of the regiments are to be in the battalion intervals.
The section starts by talking about the divisions and "their" artillery ending with the comment on artillery of the regiments. (Steven H. Smith just linked the Correspondence, publ. par ordre de l'empereur Napoléon III, vol 19; on page 205 starts document number 15481. "ORDRE TOUR LE PASSAGE DU DANUBE" while the key phase is on page 207 although the section starts on page 206.)
(2) the approach employed in practice by corps as outlined by Seruzier for the artillerie régimentaire for Oudinot's corps.
He outlines how he had them ready in time for a review by the Emperor on the 3rd of July. Steven H Smith linked Seruzier's Memoirs on Google recently; his account starts on page 151.
(3) The report of Oudinot's IInd Corps for the battle stating that the artillery of the divisions and of the regiments marched with their divisions or regiments, respectively. (See Koch, Mémoires . . . Masséna, vol 6 the report begins on page 412 and the passage occurs there: "L'artillerie de chaque division et celle des régiments marchaient avec leurs divisions ou regiments respectifs.")
Based on these documents, I concluded the regimental pieces were available for use, were ordered forward and moved into battle. Since the difference between the target of 78 at the end of May was 21 pieces, I had concluded the three corps (II – Oudinot, III – Davout and IV – Masséna) could have reached their goals using the methods described by Seruzier.
Best regards,
Ralph

I believe the differnce in dating is explained as Napoleon's intentions move to field execution and on to a firm "legal" structure.
In fact, whenever Napoleon's intention occured, he ordered changes for the Army in Germany before the decree of the 9th of June 1809.
He ordered the cannon to the French Regiments in the Army in Germany in May (see letter to Songis dated 25 May 1809) knowing that not all the cannon were with that army, as yet (57 of 78). The 25th is the same day the rest of the artillery of the Army of Germany is summarized in a separate letter.
He makes adjustments in between (see an example below of the letter to Count de La Riboisière dated 21 July 1809).
He then took the concept – partially executed – and made it a fixed part of all French regiments.
The letters below are two examples, there may be better ones. – R
______________________________________
Ebersdorf, 25 mai 1809
Au général Songis, commandant l'artillerie de l'armée d'Allemagne, à Ebersdorf
Je vous ai adressé hier des ordres, Monsieur le Général Songis, pour mettre à la disposition de M. le maréchal duc d'Auerstaedt trente pièces de canon de 3 ou de 5, autrichiennes, avec trente caissons, pour être attachées aux régiments de son corps d'armée, à raison de deux par régiment.
L'Empereur ordonne aussi qu'il soit attaché deux pièces d'artillerie de 3 ou de 5, autrichiennes, à chaque demi-brigade du corps du général Oudinot. En conséquence, l'intention de l'Empereur est que vous fassiez remettre, dans la journée de demain, à la disposition de M. le général Oudinot, vingt-quatre pièces de 3 ou de 5 et vingt-quatre caissons, chargés chacun de 150 à 200 coups, Le général Oudinot se procurera dans son corps les canonniers pour servir ces pièces ainsi que les attelages, et dans toutes les circonstances ces pièces défileront avec l'aigle de la demi-brigade.
Sa Majesté ordonne pareillement que vous fassiez remettre à la disposition du duc de Rivoli vingt-quatre pièces de canon de 3 ou de 5, autrichiennes, et vingt-quatre caissons chargés comme les précédents, pour être attachés aux douze régiments français de son corps d'armée, à raison de deux par régiment.
C'est donc, par conséquent, pour le corps du duc d'Auerstaedt, 30 pièces; pour celui du général Oudinot, 24; pour celui du duc de Rivoli, 24; total, 78 pièces. Faites fournir sans délai ces 78 pièces. 57 ont été prises ici; les autres doivent exister sur le nombre pris à Vienne, à Krems ou ailleurs.
Rendez-moi le plus tôt possible, Général, un compte détaillé sur l'exécution de ces dispositions, afin que je puisse le mettre sous les yeux de l'Empereur.
______________________________________
Schönbrunn, 21 juillet 1809.
Au général comte de La Riboisière, commandant l'artillerie de l'armée d'Allemagne, à Vienne
Monsieur le Général la Riboisière, l'armée d'Italie a un grand nombre de pièces de 3 servies par l'artillerie. Comme je tiens au principe que l'artillerie n'ait ni pièces de 3 ni pièces de 4, mais que ces pièces soient données aux seuls régiments, je désire que vous fassiez des échanges, que vous retiriez de l'armée d'Italie les pièces de 3 pour les donner aux régiments qui en manquent, et que vous donniez en remplacement à l'armée d'Italie les pièces de 6 qu'ont les régiments. Je vois avec peine des pièces de 6 aux régiments ; elles sont trop lourdes, et un caisson n'est pas suffisant pour leur approvisionnement, au lieu qu'une pièce de 3 est suffisamment approvisionnée avec un caisson. Je désire que, lorsque vous me remettrez l'état de l'artillerie de l'armée commandée par le vice-roi, vous me proposiez les moyens d'opérer ces changements.

Ralph Reinertsen

Information on the 1 July 1809 return and summary of the 15 July 1809 plans:
Situation au 1er juillet 1809 – Buat, v 2, p 160 to 166.
Le corps du maréchal Oudinot – 65 ; 4 de 12, 30 de 6, 12 ob de 6p, 2 ob de 5p6l et 17 régimentaires
Le corps du duc d'Auerstaëdt – 93 ; 8 de 12, 25 de 8, 18 de 4, 2 de 3, 8 ob de 6p et 32 régimentaires
Le corps du duc de Rivoli – 86 ; 61 pièces de division, 8 Badois et Hessois et 17 pièces de régiment
Le corps du vice-roi – 65 ; 2 de 12, 36 de 6, 12 de 3 et 15 obusiers de 24
Le corps du maréchal Marmont – 19 ; 4 de 6, 4 de 3, 2 obusiers de 24, 3 ob de 6p3l et 3 de montagne
Régiment et pièces de division – 328 : 262 pièces de division et 66 pièces de régiment
Réserve de Cavalerie – Nansouty, Saint-Sulpice et Arrighi – 26 ; 10 de 8, 10 de 4 et 6 obusiers de 5p4l
La division Montbrun – avec le corps du duc d'Auerstaëdt
La division Lassalle – avec le coprs du duc de Rivoli
Pièces de la garde – 60 pièces de la garde,
Total – 414 bouches à feu
Les alliès :
Les Bavarois – 36
Les Saxons – 38
Les Wurtenbergeois –
Les Badois – avec le coprs du duc de Rivoli
Les Hessois – avec le coprs du duc de Rivoli
Total général – 488 bouches à feu.
Napoleon – 15 juillet 1809
Le corps du maréchal Oudinot – 79 ; 45 pièces de division et 34 pièces de régiment
Le corps du duc d'Auerstaëdt – 88 ; 60 pièces de division et 28 pièces de régiment
Le corps du duc de Rivoli – 88 ; 60 pièces de division et 28 pièces de régiment
Le corps du vice-roi – 92 ; 60 pièces de division et 32 pièces de régiment
Le corps du maréchal Marmont – 44 ; 30 pièces de division et 14 pièces de régiment
Régiment et pièces de division – 371 : 255 pièces de division et 116 pièces de régiment (de 3, de 4 ou de 6)
La cavalerie, il faut une demi-batterie par chaque régiment de cuirassiers :
La division Nansouty, il faut – 18 pièces
La division Saint-Germain – 12
La division du duc de Padoue – 12
Une demi-batterie de 3 pièces pour chaque division de cavalerie légère:
La division Montbrun – 3
La division Lassalle – 3
Pièces de cavalerie – 48 pièces d'artillerie légère.
Pièces de la garde et réserve – 126 ; réserve de 42 bouches à feu avec les 84 pièces de la garde
Total – 545 bouches à feu
Les alliès :
Les Bavarois – 60
Les Saxons – 36
Les Wurtenbergeois – 24
Les Badois – 18
Les Hessois – 16
Total général – 699 bouches à feu.
Ralph Reinertsen

That is most interesting. It jibes with the time line as well, because I believe Napoleon's first order on the matter of re-introducing regimental artillery was dated May 25.
15255. – AU GÉNÉRAL SONGIS,
COMMANDANT L'ARTILLERIE DE L'ARMÉE D'ALLEMAGNE, Á EBERSDORF.
Ebersdorf. 25 mai 1809.
Je vous ai adressé hier des ordres, Monsieur le Général Songis, pour mettre à la disposition de M. le maréchal duc d'Auerstaedt trente pièces de canon de 3 ou de 5, autrichiennes, avec trente caissons, pour être attachées aux régiments de son corps d'armée, à raison de deux par régiment.
L'Empereur ordonne aussi qu'il soit attaché deux pièces d'artillerie de 3 ou de 5 , autrichiennes, à chaque demi-brigade du corps du général Oudinot. En conséquence, l'intention de l'Empereur eut que vous fassiez remettre, dans la journée de demain, à la disposition de M. le général Oudinot, vingt-quatre pièces de 3 ou de 5 et vingt- quatre caissons, chargés chacun de 150 à 200 coups. Le général Oudinot se procurera dans sou corps les canonnière pour servir ces pièces, ainsi que les attelages, et dans toutes les circonstances ces pièces défileront avec l'aigle de la demi-brigade.
Sa Majesté ordonne pareillement que vous fassiez remettre à la disposition du duc de Rivoli vingt-quatre pièces de canon de 3 ou de 5, autrichiennes, et vingt-quatre caissons chargés comme les précédents, pour être attachés aux douze régiments français de son corps d'armée, à raison de deux par régiment.
C'est donc, par conséquent, pour le corps du duc d'Anerstaedt, 30 pièces; pour celui du général Oudinot, 24; pour celui du duc de Rivoli, 24; total, 78 pièces. Faites fournir sans délai ces 78 pièces. 57 ont été prises ici ; les autres doivent exister sur le nombre pris à Vienne , à Krems ou ailleurs.
Rendez-moi le plus tôt possible, Général, un compte détaillé sur l'exécution de ces dispositions, afin que je puisse le mettre sous les yeux de l'Empereur.
Le prince de Neufchatel, major général'.
D'après la minute. Archives de l'Empire.
Best regards,
Terry

How were the regimental pieces used? Eg only as a small regimental half/third battery or a battery per brigade?

The French got rid of their battalion guns in 1800. They were partially revived in 1809 in regimental cannon companies of two pieces each. Napoleon later modified this to four pieces each (along with their ancillar equipment-caissons, field forges, etc.) However, there were never enough field pieces of the necessary caliber (3- and 4-pounders-and sometimes the older Piedmontese guns were used), so the organization went back to the two-gun companies. Most of them were lost in Russia and were not revived.

The four-gun companies were to have two officers and 95 other ranks; the two-gun companies were to have two officers and 68 other ranks.

The purpose of reinventing the wheel in this case was to give the big, new 1808 infantry regiments their own artiller support.

The Prussian artillery in 1806 was not all battalion guns, but was divided into battalion pieces and the foot and horse artillery batteries.

Three of the four Prussian artillery regiments were disbanded after the 1806 'catastrophe.' Then the Prussian artillery arm was reorganized and improved, but still not up to French standards.

the problem was that this artillery was not under professional artillery control, according to more mobile warfare they weren't any longer intersected into the gaps of infantry battalions but used more like a battery.

Which artillery? Prussian or French?

For the French, the regimental artillery companies, although the personnel were drawn from the infantry, the companies were trained by the artillery.

From George Nafziger's "The French Army – Royal, Republican & Imperial (1788-1815) The Infantry Part 1" -

"In order to augment the number of guns with the Armee d'Allemagne, Napoleon re-established the regimental batteries with the Order of 24 May 1809. This order directed that two captured Austrian 3pdrs and two caissons be assigned to each of the regiments on Davout's corps as well as the 5th Regiment Legere & 19th Regiment de Ligne. On 25 May Napoleon directed that two guns be added to the units serving in Massena's and Oudinot's forces. On 27 May, Prince Eugene de Beauharnais directed that regimental batteries be established in the Army of Italy.

Each regiment was obliged to produce its own crew as well as to obtain the material to train them. The regimental guns were always attached to the battalion that carried the regimental eagle. The 3pdr caisson carried 300 rounds of ammunition, but some regiments had 4pdrs, because there were insufficient 3pdrs. The 4pdr caissons had 150 rounds.

The Decree of 9 June 1809 established the artillery company to serve this battery. This Decree set the establishment of the company at:

1 Lieutenant
1 Sous-lieutenant
3 Sergeants
3 Corporals
20 Gunners
2 Artisans
40 Train soldiers
---
70 Total

The equipment assigned to a regimental artillery company consisted of 2 guns, three caissons, one forge, an ambulance caisson, an administrative caisson, one cartridge caisson per battalion, and one victuals caisson per battalion. This gave a 3 battalion regiment 11 wagons, each drawn by four horses.

When on campaign the regimental artillery was divided into 3 squads. The first served the guns, and consisted of a sergeant, a corporal, 2 artisans and the 20 cannoniers. The second consisted of a sergeant, a corporal, and the 20 train soldiers with the 34 horses drew the eight wagons that always followed the eagle. The third squad was formed like the second, but had 26 horses drawing the six or eight regimental wagons. The commanding lieutenant was principally concerned with the artillery, while the sous-lieutenant was consisted of a sergeant, a corporal, for the train.

On 24 January 1811 Napoleon directed that the regiments in Davout's I Corps have their regimental artillery companies increased from two to three guns. This was further increased on 11 February to four guns. The regimental battery had four 3pdrs, 8 caissons, one forge, one ambulance caisson, one administration caisson, four cartridge caissons and four victuals caissons.

With this increase in equipment, the company now has:

1 Capitaine
1 Lieutenant
1 Sous-Lieutenant
1 sergeant-major
1 Fourrier
5 Sergeants
5 Corporals
1 Drummer
40 Gunners
4 Artisans
60 Train soldiers
---
120 Total men
100 harness horses

The cannoniers and artisans formed two squads, each of which served 2 guns. The train soldiers formed 3 squads. The first of these served the artillery and 4 caissons, while the second served the forge, four caissons and the two regimental caissons. The third squad served the eight battalion caissons. the Lieutenant commanded the artillery, and the Sous-lieutenant commanded the train. Davout completed this organisation on 13 April."

Nafziger gives his source as Lt. Col Belhomme "Histoire de l'infanterie de France" Volume IV page 444 & Cmdt Margueron "Campagned de Russie" Volume 2 pages 36 to 37.

what I find interesting that the original text, sometimes they speak of 3 or 5 pieces – what is your oponion of that?

Captured Austrian 6-pounders are consistently referred to as 5-pounders in these letters…possibly a convenient way of distinguishing them from French 6-pounders?

The Austrian pound was lighter than the French pound so 5pdr is an approximation of the actual weight in French measures.

Cheers,
John

the Wiener Pfund was heavier than the French one, but in case I remember correctly the gun barrels were classed according to Nürnberg silver weight which was lower – 477, 2 g till about 1810. So the Austrian pound was higher but for gun barrely they used the Nürnberger Pfund, that explains a bit the confusion.

However a French pound, poid de marc, 489 g – compared to the Nürmberger Silbergewicht 477 g, just 12 g difference, would make for 6 pounder just 72 g difference – a far cry from one pound – A Wiener Pfund by the way was 560 g

Some information from the 17e Ligne and 21e Ligne from 1809.

Organization of the 17e Ligne regimental cannons dated 9 June 1809 shows that Lt Mauge (Mauger) from the 3e Voltigeurs and S.Lt Gullion from the 4e Company of the 1st Battalion were nominated. The 17e Ligne had 3 Sergents, 3 Caporals, 20 Cannoniers, 2 Artisans, and 39 Soldiers of the train for a total of 69 men. These were taken from all over the regiment, including four voltigeurs and 1 Grenadier. The Etat Nomantif shows that by June and July 1809, the Cannonier company was added to the returns. Also, in a document proposing officers to become the new Porte Aigle, Guillon is already referred to as S.Lt of the company of cannoniers on 22 July 1809.

17e Ligne

Mauge's service record says he passed to regimental artillery company on 21 June 1809.

Guillon's letter dated 22 July 1809

25e Ligne nominations dated 15 June 1809

p127 of Napoleonic Artillery by Dawson et al gives a comparison of shot weights for various nationalities and rather helpfully gives them all in kg.

Austrian 6 pdr shot weight is 2.7kg whereas French 6 pdr is 3.0 kg.

Whilst not not being a full pound lower the approximately 10% lower shot weight for the Austrian 6 pdr would support the French referring to them as 5 pdr both to differentiate and identify as lower weight. It could be seen as slightly derogatory too which may have appealed to the user given they were captured.

From Paul Dawson on my facebook group

An innovation of the 1809 was the re-adoption of regimental artillery:
‘Decree 9 June 1809. Artillery pieces attached to the infantry.
Title I, Article I. There shall be attached to each regiment of infantry, line and light, two pieces of artillery, 3 or 4 pounders, three caissons, a field forge, an ambulance caisson, and a caisson to transport the papers of the regiment. These eight waggons always march with the battalion which carries the eagle of the regiment.
2. There shall be attached to each battalion a caisson to carry the infantry cartridges, a caisson for the bread, which, for the four battalions shall make eight caissons.
Title 2, Article 3. The sixteen vehicles are serviced, harnessed, and conducted by a company of cannoneers of the regiment.
The company of cannoneers of the regiment shall be commanded by a lieutenant, a sous-lieutenant, three sergeants and three corporals, and shall be divided into three squads.
The first squad shall be composed of a sergeant, a corporal, twenty cannoneers and two craftsmen (ouvriers). The corporal has the duty of conductor and magazine-guard of the artillery. He shall have the keys to the caissons, and shall be especially charged with the maintenance the ammunition.
The second squad shall be composed of a sergeant, a corporal and twenty soldiers of the train, which will be charged with harnessing the eight vehicles which march with the battalion to which the eagle of the regiment is allocated.
The third squad shall be composed as for the second, and is charged with the movement and service of the other eight vehicles.
The lieutenant shall be in command of the entire body, but will have overall command of the artillery; the sous-lieutenant is charged with commanding the train. Both of these officers shall be mounted.
Our minister of war shall determine the expenses which shall be awarded to the administration councils to put into effect (this decree), to repair and maintain the vehicles '
The regimental artillery was disbanded once more 1 April 1810 and was reformed with the decree of 11 February 1811. We know very little about the clothing of regimental artillery or of its existence from extant paper work. We can be absolutely sure that this was not carried out in every regiment. I can add to the 17e and 25e, the 9e, 21e, 24e and 48e de Ligne to the list. As far as regimental archives go, thats it based on recorded facts at regimental level. it is wrong to say every regimennt had guns. It is also wrong to say regimental artillery was done with after the Russian campaign, and it is wrong to say every regiment under the 1811 decree had guns as well. Regimental artillery like with eagle guards, is a 'nice idea' but not one verified by the realities of the situation.

Paul Dawson uses for the French pound 500 g- but the poid du marc was less and was used when the French converted to the decimal system, but the point du marc was still in use and I doubt that barrels were cast to a different diameter of pounds during the Napoleonic wars – or were re cast – otherwise you would have different Fremch 12 pound guns for example. In case you use the poid du marc, the difference is quite small to come to the conclusion that an Austrian 6 pdr cannon ball would be classified as a 5 pdr compared to a French one – 72 g difference. I find it difficult to find some sense, otherwise another important aspect is overlooked by me.

so in case I see from the above information, there was no professionally trained gunners in those regimental guns?

von W,

I will look at the rolls and see if any of the men had previously served in the artillery. I know that in the 17e Ligne, neither officer had previous service in the artillery. I am supposed to be writing paper for my class, but that seems a more fun assignment to find anyone with previous experience!

so it would be similar to the Garde Nationale gunners in the Revolution?

My understanding:
Napoleon reinstated regimental guns at some point in 1809 and they may have been used for first time at Wagram? Davout I Corps of 1812 had four per regiment but other Corps 2 per regiment. However apart from reading that Davout's where converged into one battery at the start of Borodino there is very little mention on their use and or the effect they had and having lost them all in the retreat………..
From a wargamers point of view (I use Empire rules) maybe best to just add their fire effect to the first battalions of each regiment if the battalion is fighting on ground where artillery could be got and used.
Nap reintroducted them as the quality/morale of his infanrty had reduced since the glory days of 1805-6.
Did they make any difference anyway?

From the wargaming point of view regimental returns etc may state they were present but were they used. In 1812 with the wastage of horses so heavy would not a competent commander use his remaining horses to pull his 6Ibs and 12Ibs guns and leave the 3Ibs in rear or abandon them?

the regimental guns belonged to the infantry regiment and were not part as such of the regular artillery, a regimental commander would hardly posses a regimental artillery with 12 pound guns.

One would have to check the ordres des batailles to find out what kind of guns served in the regimental artillery, 3 and 4 pdr and also 6 pdr. see information above.

I have never seen any reference for the 'new' regimental cannon companies being employed at Wagram. They were, however, seen exercising on Lobau before the battle. Girault, the gagiste, was one who saw them and mentioned it in his memoir.

Napoleon ordered Songis to issue two light field pieces, and two caissons to Davout's, Massena's, and Oudinot's corps for each infantry regiment in those corps before Wagram. The artillery companies each were authorized two officers and 68 other ranks and were also given the responsibility for the regiments' trains.

Interestingly, the Young Guard division that went into Spain in 1809 were given two light field pieces per regiment. These companies, however, were staffed with Guard artillerymen and not detailed infantrymen.