"Mexico vs usa." Topic

Anyone done a game on this what if? Or even heard of one.

Seems like it would be extremely one- sided. That having been said Mexico does have an interesting mix of equipment and some very pretty camo schemes. The Sentinel Mexico f/b page is great.

Mexico doesn't even have any tanks. So it would be a steamroll if we are just comparing open-battle situations.

Damon.

Against the cartels, maybe?

Would need to limit the US side somehow. Maybe imagine US is fighting a multi-front war, can only send National Guard units to engage in Mexico? Or give Mexico an ally (China?).

If you make if sci-fi, then Mexico can have tanks, and you can loosely base it on the 19th century war.

The Mexican army is a light infantry force, and the airforce is primarily transport and reconnaissance.

My yet ungamed idea involves a second American Civil War in which Mexico takes advantage of a destabilized US government and invades the US with the goal of reclaiming its pre Texas Revolution border. China will be involved somehow, either directly assisting Mexico, or by tying up US troops on the West Coast.

"Against the cartels, maybe?"

That would be the way to go. The cartels would be heavily armed (think of all the advanced weaponry they can buy!), plus all the mercs they could bring in. And some of the terrain you wouldn't want to send tanks into. And they'd have no rules of engagement hindering them, so borders are meaningless. Stupid amounts of money on hand means they can buy foreign intel, etc. Or another way to look at it, an Afghanistan on the U.S. border.
But I think you'd be looking less at gaming, and instead simulating possible future combat operations…

Years ago, my boss lent me a fictional novel where the US invaded Mexico as a result of the cartels (I think there was a Bradley on the cover). Interesting read, I remember I finished the book in the bath and warped the pages.

Anyway, it would have to be asymmetrical in nature if gamed at larger scales.

It would be easy to nullify a lot of the American advantages. Imagine the Mexicans have been preparing for this war for quite some time. Among the close to 1 million illegal border crossers are tens of thousands of infiltrators who get menial jobs at military bases, power stations, U-Haul sites etc. Maybe even some Hamas and Hezbollah allies are smuggled in. Day -1 of the war there are numerous explosions on military bases, troops are poisoned at chow, power substations are attacked, bridges blown up, suicide bomber hits Congress with large truck bomb, and so on. I think I could turn it into an even fight, which would encourage China to throw it's hat into the ring and the EU to step back.

Prince Alberts Revenge: perhaps Harold Coyle – Trial by Fire ?
link

Invasion America (board wargame)
link

link

Garand said:

"Mexico doesn't even have any tanks. So it would be a steamroll if we are just comparing open-battle situations."

Actually no it would not.
While it is obvious that a US-Mexican "war" would almost 99% be an American Offensive into Mexico, one has to look at the objectives.
1: Is the objective Mexico City and the elimination of the Mexican Govt, (such as what we did with Saddam?)
2: Is it to secure a "buffer zone" along the US border due to increasing violence from the drug cartels?
3: Is it to invade and take over Mexico completely, (Good lord, WHY?)…

In each of these cases, the facts are as follows:

1: The majority of US Army armor assets are in Texas, (1st AD at Fort Bliss, 1st Cav Division and 3rd Cav at Fort Hood). Stateside infantry units nearby to support at 1st ID out of Ft. Riley, and 4th ID out of Ft. Carson. These would probably be the main ground assets you would see. Movement of these forces to the Southern Border of Texas would be a huge undertaking. Every news reporter across the nation would be doing a story while standing in front of a flatcar with loaded M1's heading South to it's disembark point.

2: Look at the Texas/Mexico border. I'm well familiar with this line. EVERY,(and I mean EVERY) major crossing goes over a bridge, (that won't hold M1's), and directly into a major urban area, (So right off the top from the word go, we are into slow, grinding urban warfare.

3: Take a look at what 1st AD would have to go through. Take a look at the map of El Paso, and Ciudad Juarez. (Home of the Mexican Army 26th Infantry Battalion).

4: Mexico's military doesn't really need "Tanks". Tanks are big, and expensive to get, use, and maintain. The ERC 90's that they have, are what they need to support their troops. Plus a 90mm round will do ugly things to a M2/M3 Bradley. They are very quick and mobile and combined with the VBL Milan systems can put a hurt on advancing mobile forces.

5: Don't forget, that the further the US advances into Mexico, the further the supply line is stretched.

An invasion of Mexico scenario is an interesting thing to discuss and game, but the first few turns would easily be an urban grind and crawl, and the game, (and real life) would bog down…

Didn't Harold Coyle write a book a while back about the US invading Mexico?

How about a "Mexican Legion" concept, where Mexicans who fled to the US to escape the Cartels are armed & trained and then attempt to re-take their country? The Mexican Army could be aligned with the Legion, the Cartels, or fight independently.

Okay I read a novel a few years ago. Involved an expanded Islamic state that went to war with the USA and Europe. Anyone remember this book? There is another one involving the Chinese destabilizing the USA through Mexico, had the USa deploy the 101st to the border. I dont remember if is the same or a different one

I imagine the US army/government has, or is.

Currently and ongoing, real conflict, with 250,000 invaders flooding over the border monthly – more than 1.5X the number of those landed during D-Day in Normandy, every month. 6+ MILLION and counting in the last two years.

The drug cartels and human smugglers are winning, and some/many won't even acknowledge the fight.

Not sure the US military could win, even if going "all in" into Mexico, given recent and previous losses, and hamstringing our military with ridiculous and onerous rules of engagement – Afghanistan, Iraq, and Vietnam.

Plus, the cartels now have numerous "soldiers" and allies in most, if not ALL of our major cities now too, who can cause a lot of problems domestically.

DnJackson, your scenario is the scariest and the one with the most possibilities. Destroy the power grid, (seems some have experimented with that recently). destroy the food processing infrastructure and create scarcity (again, we have had an unusually high volume of food processing, large chicken farms and other food related things "damaged" within the last 2 years). blow up large fuel and chemical trains around populated areas, ( "50-car train derailment in Ohio causes massive fire, evacuations." This was yesterday), sabotage bridges and infrastructure on US highways and explode fuel and chemical semi's during peak traffic patterns. Lace the country with deadly drugs causing thousands and thousands of deaths (opps again happening, fentanyl). Again as you stated, poison the food supply (I'm old enough to remember people doing that with milk and Tylenol in groceries and the fear and hysteria that engendered throughout the United States. The reason you have seals on products now).
I'm sure I am missing some.

We currently have well over 20 million illegal immigrants in the country. An impossible load to monitor.

Your scenario scares the crap out of me.

Prince Alberts Revenge: perhaps Harold Coyle – Trial by Fire ?

Porthos: You are correct, good work! I was reading alot of Larry Bond at the time and my boss lent me the Coyle book. I remember thinking that it didnt seem all that realistic. It seemed like the US military struggled with the Mexicans more than I think would be the reality. It was a long time ago though and I don't recall the details of the book.

"I'm old enough to remember people doing that with milk and Tylenol in groceries and the fear and hysteria that engendered throughout the United States. The reason you have seals on products now."

Me too. I remember the hysteria those incidents caused.

Imagine a scenario where the United States allows Mexican criminals to come across the border and end up poisoning and killing hundreds of thousands of American citizens/civilians and the US military and political leaders do hardly anything.

Nah, could never happen.

Mexico would LOVE to have the US invade them. Then the US would rebuild its infrastructure and pass out millions of dollars to its leaders, and compensate the cartels billions of dollars for lost earnings. At least the people in power now would.

Wolfhag

@Murphy "2: Is it to secure a "buffer zone" along the US border due to increasing violence from the drug cartels?"

Yes, this is almost inevitable on our current trajectory. Under current leadership the US has effectively ceded control of its southern border to the Mexican cartels. The Mexican government is corrupt and seems unable to take down the cartels and many politicians find it easier to just go on the take and look the other way. At some point enough Americans will find this intolerable and elect people to clean up and secure the border, and we will see US incursions into Mexico to take down whatever overt cartel centers of power that we can, with or without the Mexican government's help.

No law is going to work unless it is funded and ruthlessly enforced.

Wolfhag