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"How Politics Destroys Armies" Topic


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435 hits since 22 Jan 2023
©1994-2023 Bill Armintrout
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Druzhina22 Jan 2023 9:48 p.m. PST
Personal logo Herkybird Supporting Member of TMP23 Jan 2023 1:15 a.m. PST

Now, there are three ways in which a sovereign can bring misfortune upon his army:

(1) When ignorant that the army should not advance, to order an advance; or when ignorant that it should not retire, to order a retirement. This is described as "hobbling the army."
(2) When ignorant of military affairs, to interfere in their administration. This causes the officers to be perplexed.

(3) When ignorant of command problems, to interfere with the direction of the fighting. This engenders doubts in the minds of the officers.

(Sun Tsu)

…there is nothing new under the sun!

ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa23 Jan 2023 9:53 a.m. PST

Another good one and a great round out to his trilogy on things that destroy armies. Always stuff I didn't know like the extreme Japanese navy/army rivalry in WWII. I thought it had very little to do with Sun Tsu prognostications, at least directly, and a lot to do with leadership, the propagation of negative organisational cultures and how authoritarian rulers maintain their power. Though there has been plenty of suggestion that Putin himself has been directly interfering and 'hobbling the army'.

Perun really needs to do book.

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse23 Jan 2023 4:21 p.m. PST

Perun is really very good with his knowledge of this topic. And yes Sun Tzu knew what he was talking about centuries ago.

We saw this sort of thing, during Vietnam. E.g. The WH was telling our strike aircraft what type of ordinance to drop. And of course, waiting too long, i.e. years before we could bomb Hanoi.

And we saw similar with the debacle of the A'stn evac.

Personal logo javelin98 Supporting Member of TMP26 Jan 2023 3:21 p.m. PST

We saw this sort of thing, during Vietnam. E.g. The WH was telling our strike aircraft what type of ordinance to drop. And of course, waiting too long, i.e. years before we could bomb Hanoi.

There's an excellent documentary on Amazon Prime (I think) about F-105 Thunderchiefs (a.k.a., Thuds) in Vietnam. Some of the pilots interviewed talked about how LBJ's meddling in the daily lists of targets gave the North Vietnamese the time and space to receive and deploy advanced Soviet SAM systems. One veteran described how he watched SAM systems being unloaded onto trucks and knew that he would be in those missiles' crosshairs in a week or two, but when he asked for permission to strike them, it was denied because LBJ had declared that area too politically sensitive. How many American and allied pilots died because of the President's interference, we'll never know, but whatever the number was, it was too many.

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse26 Jan 2023 4:33 p.m. PST

Saw a similar program on the History Channel years ago. With pilot interviews, footage, etc. Another POTUS whose foolishness, etc. cost us to lose our people. 'nuff said …

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP26 Jan 2023 9:13 p.m. PST

Not only there…


Murphy's Law: Pakistan, China And The Ukraine War

link


Armand

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