"Alternatives to Empire?" Topic

I've found a local group whose Napoleonic games are on hiatus. They were playing Empire in 15mm--I didn't ask which edition--but the player who really liked and understood the rules wound up in a nursing home during the plague.

What rules would you recommend for people with a stack of 15mm Napoleonics based for Empire, who found Empire too complicated?

I play Empire, and not changing, but see this question a lot.
Blackpowder is a common answer

Napoleon's Battles is also an option.

link

Valour & Fortitude free rules from the Perry Bros. Easy to use with Empire basing.

There are a lot of things I like about Le Feu Sacre. Infantry fire is largely rolled into close action. I think it does allow lines to engage in firefights to wear down the enemy. Something not for everyone is that each division rolls for command points a la DBA. Grand tactical movement is on blinds. Been years since I played as the group I'm with now plays other things.

Age of Eagles

Cavalry and Artillery need no changes. Infantry an cb used as is or 'doubled' up (to look a bit more like AoE stands) and counted as two

We played Empire for quite a few years, but switched to Age of Eagles when it first came out and have not looked back.

Your choice of rules depends on the "level" of units you want as your basic maneuver element. If you want to command larger armies, the Age of Eagles is great. The basic maneuver element is the brigade.

If you want a more tactical game, which is where most rules exist, then I'd recommend Black Powder. The basic maneuver element is the battalion which you fight within a brigade and division structure.

Raylev3, I failed to make myself clear. Other people may decide level. My concern is compatibility with existing basing.

Depends on scale of battles you like to play and whether your base unit is a battalion or brigade stand.

Assuming you like battalions, then depends on figs/battalion – the more figs/batalion in general the smaller the game in terms of no. of battalions used (also scale of figures, its heroic time and $ spent to do huge battles in 24+ figs battalion in 28mm)

Rules wise, the simpler the better as you scale up the action. At Corps+ level ie lots of brigades IMO its Valour & Fortitude (aka quickplay Black Powder) that handles very big games. From Division to Corps level IME Black Powder or Shako 2 work well. For smaller battles (Division down to a few brigades) there are so many rulesets, and for a few battalions then probably Sharpe Practice.

Games like Volley and Bayonet let you play big games with less painting by making each stand a Brigade.

La Feu Sacre, literally made for Empire basing and speedier play. No brainer.

You need to decide first what unit level you are going to do. Since Empire is battalions then I would stick with battalions. So that would eliminate AOE and the like.

If memory serves, Empire standard is 3/8" for 3-rank infantry (and per cannon in battery); 1/2" for 2-rank infantry; and 3/4" for 2-rank cavalry. That's close enough to 4:3:2 on a 40mm frontage.

The standard organization at 1" to 40 yards ground scale is a figure:man ratio of 1:60, with people commonly making battalions rather above field strength (perhaps closer to establishment strength) so they evenly divide into companies as bases.

Old Trousers II by John P. Kelly is a free rules set one can find online, and Elan Deluxe by Phillip A. Jones another, that should fit the already organized brigades and divisions — while being significantly less complicated than Empire.

A lot of recently published rules sets are meant primarily for 28s based with infantry figures 2 deep, but either explicitly provide for using 15s based for Empire (or close enough to it) or are straightforward to adapt. They might by default call for about twice as many figures per unit, but the number might not actually be relevant to how the game plays.

More generally, it's typically easy to arrange something that works one way or another so long as everyone is using the same basing system.

William Keyser's From Valmy to Waterloo (1995, Clash of Arms games) provides a heavily simulation-oriented experience, which I think would probably scratch the same itch as Empire or Revolution & Empire; it might well move along more rapidly, once players are familiar with the flow among tables and charts.

Arty Conliffe's Shako is more abstract and includes a formalism for going from battalion units to division units — so you can fight big battles with basically the same (remarkably straightforward and fast-moving) set of rules.

It's no longer the "latest hotness" it was in 1995, but I think still well commendable. Some people prefer some aspects of the original to Shako II (2008, and I think still in print). It's very flexible about basing, giving example units built from bases either for Empire or for Napoleon's Battles. It tends to call for fewer models than other old rules sets, never mind what is the "latest hotness" (i.e., or at least e.g., Black Powder) — but if you want to use more, it's not rocket science!

Coming to this a bit late, but I believe the Republique grand tactical rules use the same basing as Empire. Their infantry base widths are 1.125" which sounds the same. Last I saw the rules were free, so should be easy to evaluate & decide.