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"Differences ~1809 Italian Guard Grenadier vs Chassuer" Topic


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DevoutDavout20 Jan 2023 9:50 p.m. PST

Hello!

I am working on putting together some Italian guard to go with my line infantry. Mostly because I have the spare figures to make a good bit in 10mm.

I have been doing image searching, and checking out my Ospreys. Now that I look, can anyone tell me the difference between Chasseur and Grenadier, especially when working at 10mm? I cannot find a difference. Both seem to wear bearskin. Both seem to have the red facings, feathers, and green jackets. What am I missing? What can I do at 10mm that is accurate to differentiate, as a secondary question, if my first assumption is correct based on what I have seen.

Thanks very much.

1809andallthat21 Jan 2023 1:40 a.m. PST

Main differences were that for the Grenadiers the bearskin had a white metal front plate and a red plume whereas for the Chasseurs the bearskin had no front plate and the plume was green tipped red. Grenadier epaulettes were are all red whereas Chasseur epaulettes had a green strap with red crescent and fringes. Chasseurs also had pointed cuffs.

I don't do 10mm but I would have thought the plume and bearskin plate (or lack of) would give you the differentiation you need.

gboue200121 Jan 2023 11:25 a.m. PST

It also depends of the period you are going to play, late napoleonic Royal Guard Chasseurs (1812-1814) were wearing shakos instead of bearskins.

DevoutDavout21 Jan 2023 11:26 a.m. PST

Thanks 1809.

One of your notes solved my problem. My dumb rear end didnt notice the missing plates on the Grens. Both packs are labelled correctly, but both are chasseur models. Happened before with OG. Once I ordered a pack of caisson and a pack of supply wagon. Correct labels, all Caisson.

Anyway. Correct models should solve that and as you say be enough distinction they are noticeable on inspection. Thank you.

Personal logo 4th Cuirassier Supporting Member of TMP22 Jan 2023 7:25 a.m. PST

I don't know if such details can be seen in 10mm but the buttons were pewter rather than brass and the officers' bearskin cords were silver. Apparently (according to Stephen Ede-Borrett) the bearskin plates of officers were often silvered and some of the other ranks probably wore old-issue bearskins with pewter bearskin plates, later replaced in new issues by brass.

It seems to be a thing with Italian guards; the Guard Dragoons' buttons are the same and basically the only detectable point of difference in these scales with France's Empress Dragoons.

Prince of Essling22 Jan 2023 9:20 a.m. PST

@4th Cuirassiers – not quite on the Guard Dragoon. The Italians had white aiguillettes and white edging to their shabraques.

picture

@DevoutDavout – if you have any spare infantry figures, you could paint them up as the Velites who wore white
coats grass green collar, turnbacks, lapels and cuffs. All buttons were brass and of the Royal Guard pattern embossed with the Italian eagle and Imperial crown. Bearskins were as for the main guard infantry.

picture

picture

DevoutDavout22 Jan 2023 10:54 a.m. PST

Prince – Thank you very much! That is a wonderful idea to get use out of all these "un-plated" bearskins. I have so many now, to make them all Guard Chasseur I'd have as many as I do regular Italian line…

That will also work well since I am loosely basing my available pool of battalions around Wagram. I was just reading a night or two ago a post you made a while back on the Honor Guard they fought next to there.

Dave Jackson Supporting Member of TMP25 Jan 2023 4:23 p.m. PST

Good website. See the links too

napitalia.org.uk/eng

Dave Jackson Supporting Member of TMP25 Jan 2023 4:25 p.m. PST

Good book

link

Prince of Essling26 Jan 2023 9:47 a.m. PST

histunif.com/index.htm
This is the best site (at the moment) about Kingdom of Italy in the Napoleonic period.

Personal logo 4th Cuirassier Supporting Member of TMP27 Jan 2023 1:08 a.m. PST

@ Prince

Good catch re the shabraque lace, I'd missed that – thanks.

@ Dave J, agree re Ede-Borrett book.

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