"Fightin' with Baby Battle Masters" Topic

Guys,

We gave my 3mm Battle Masters conversion a thorough thrashing yesterday, with two games fought in the afternoon.

Imperial took the first round, and Chaos the second.

The areas mat worked fine with the basic system, although I did make some range sticks for measuring the X-bow and archer units firing.

I've ordered some Antonine Miniatures ancients army blocks from Warbases, that are made for the Strength & Honour rules, which I'll try to convert to look and function for English Civil War units (as a new project to use along with this 3mm game mat and terrain pieces here).

Till then, this little Battle Masters set up continues to please, despite being just a very lite wargame.

I love this!!!

A thing of beauty.

That's very cool.

Eric

That looks fantastic, Dave, cool stuff!

V/R,
Jack

Rdfraf, ROU…, Eric, and Jack – thanks for looking and liking this little kit here!

I'm at a stage in the hobby where I want to hold the line on collecting, and these small footprint scales offer a chance to still build into something new, without requiring big cash or outsized space for storing the stuff.

On top of that, with this smallish kit, the downsizing helps get the game set up onto the board, and up and running all the quicker.

What's sort of funny, is the "Big Picture" can come so easily with a small minis approach – as long as that battlefield picture looks 'involved'….or maybe the word better served would be "integrated"? When I replay a scenario in my head from this 2-3mm gaming, I see a battlefield in play….but there are still distinct events that come to mind, laced within its larger narrative, like this -

These mounted green skins came all the way across the center of the battlefield in the 2nd game we played (with a string of amazing activations and good dice rolls, to whack way beyond their pay grade)…..it was very fun to watch, and remember -

How did you glue the areas of ground cover onto the mat?

The tufts are self-adhesive, but the leafy areas must be a craft project. What kind of ground cover? What kind of glue? How was it applied? Is it holding on well? So many questions…

- Ix

:)))

I use the famous GOO glue, made by Walthers, as it's the ideal adhesive for any flocking or tuft attachment. It's so sticky, strong, but stays flexible enough when dry……but it does put off a terrible smell when it's drying (so good ventilation is a must – even then, my wife gives me havoc whenever I'm working on one of these projects).

The large foliage is cheap sponge flocking I found at a Michael's craft store, that came in clear, cylindrical containers available in three colors each. The "trick" to the application, is to mix the sponge cover with a finer flock, so that the glued areas will be completely covered (which won't happen if just applying the coarse/crumble foliage….so a mix is needed consisting of at least two size "grades").

On the stands themselves, as above, I used a slightly different technique, which worked, because the stands are rigid, and the adhesive didn't need the ability to flex – as will be required of foliage glued to a rollup-style mat. For the stands, I used Mod Podge drops applied with a brush, and then a mix of the sponge foliage and Woodland Scenics flocking applied and pressed down with another brush. The Mod Podge-white glue doesn't adhere the coarser foliage as well as the GOO glue does, so after it's dry on the stands (and any loose bits brushed off), I used a toothpick to apply finer drops of the GOO glue to adhere more of the coarser foliage to build up the brush piles.

The GOO glue "strings" when dabbed into and pulled away for applying, so using a toothpick remote from the unit stands ensures that strings won't drop over onto the figures.

Oh, the small grain flocking I used on the mat above was color-matched Leaf Flake by Noch, but Woodland Scenics fine flocking works great too. During and after the flock mix application, I use a vacuum that has a removeable canister, with a brush attachment, to suck up the unattached flocking, so I can empty the canister contents back into my mix box, and continue to use it up (no wasting of pricey hobby products here). ;)

Craig, here's a pic of the same multi-size flocking mix applied using the fine Woodland Scenics flock instead of the Noch leaf product (as seen in the areas defining the woods sections on the rigid game board here). I went for more of a "dried leaves and weeds" understory look, instead of the more matching color – sort of based on a terrain scale choice/thinking. These foliage sections were all attached using Mod Podge liberally brushed on, instead of with GOO glue (it's all held on fine for a number of years going now).

How do you store and transport these cloths with terrain glued on?

The mix of Noch leaf litter and Woodland Scenics flock looks way better than I would have expected. I have some similar Scenic Express leaf litter around for adding to forest floors, so I'm going to try that.

I tried using Mod Podge to make farm fields in November, but I wasn't happy with how stiff the felt got. Maybe that's a problem with using it on felt – felt is like a glue sponge. I found Aleene's fabric glue worked better for the "crops" on top because it was easier to apply in long runs out of the spout. I guess I should try Mod Podge again if I want to make weedy/grassy/bushy areas, but on thinner cloth.

I guess I'm going to have to get some Walther's GOO. I didn't know about it. One can never have too many glues around…

- Ix

I store them anywhere I can find some open space. ;)

Seriously though, I use shipper tubes to roll them around. I cut three squares of double-sided carpet tape, and affix these positioned at intervals in a straight line across the length of the tube. When rolling a mat back onto the tube, it's a matter of fixing one edge of the mat across the tube's length using the tape guides, and then just drawing the mat up by rotating the tube till you've got a bundle rolled up ready for future deployment.

The GOO glue is flexible, and gives a bit of working time before drying. It's not for large area adhesion, because of its cost, and because it's tube applied, and can't be brushed or sprayed on. GOO is perfect though for segmented scenics, of small area, or areas that can be built up from multiple sections/glue applications.

The Mod Podge works good for flat, rigid surfaces that don't need to bend, but for mat's that will be rolled up, or terrain overlays that you want to conform to hills, an adhesive with flexibility is better.

I've tested using spray-on adhesive like 3M's Super77, but I think these dry too quickly, and don't allow enough precision, and the working time is too quick to get enough flocking down and adhered.

I enjoy seeing the great looking terrain sections guys make up using foam insulation board or out of MDF for overlays, but rolled up mats offer a lot of gaming flexibility too – especially if you're using flexible foam to place underneath the mats to create game elevations ("flexibilty" certainly seems to be my operative word here, eh?……durability too).

I never worry about damaging the edges of my mats, or gouging out flocked areas either. ;)

I agree about stiff terrain panels. They can look awesome, but storage and transport are a nightmare. Until now, almost all of my terrain has been cloth. Almost 20 years ago I discovered that I prefer the hills to be under the cloth whenever possible, so rolls of fleece replaced felt in my terrain collection.

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I have yet to find a spray glue I trust to make permanent terrain pieces.

I used up a couple cans of Super77 making flocked fields and forest floors, but the flocking (and peat moss, and other bits) all shed over time, and the glue gave the underlying cloth a glossy sheen that I hated.

I use Elmer's spray glue all the time to pre-assemble terrain cloths for quick deployment, gluing down roads, streams, fields, forest floors, etc. to a large felt or fleece cloth. Since I have zero trouble pulling all those pieces off again later, I don't really trust the Elmer's to hold flocking down very well either.

I've also used Aleene's spray glue; it's functionally identical to Elmer's.

- Ix

Interesting!

I've not tried any of the white glue sprays.

Woodland Scenics makes a spray-on glue I think too, or something for a spray dispenser, but I've not tried that either….it's the issue of retention as you mention, that's needed for flexing fabrics.

Sounds like we've spent some bucks on prior adhesives without hoped-for results.

On Topic – recently Woodland Scenics sent out an emailer that they've opened up a 'Gaming Division' of products – it's all the same stuff as their primary line of (railroad hobby) for static display products.