"Mechanism for reaction to being fired upon" Topic

Hi folks: does anybody know of good mechanisms in a skirmish/company level ruleset that allows a unit to go to ground or take cover while being fired at. In other words, the unit, as not part of its regular move or activation, hears the artillery coming and hits the dirt. Or a tank gets hit by a non-penetrating shot from an AT gun and then takes evasive action… I have thought about allowing this in IABSM if the unit being fired upon has not already activated…

I've seen this in several games. It usually involves a die roll against troop quality. If successful the unit gets to react, otherwise, not.

My view is that troops in WW2 ALWAYS hit the ground when being fired at. Or even if they think they are under fire.

+1 MajorB.

My dad was a WW2 Navy combat vet. Home in Boston on shore leave once when a car backfired, and everyone on the streets in uniform hit the sidewalk!

Takes a skill roll to stay up and moving forward when under fire.

Patton had to work at convincing his troops they had a better chance of survival by continuing to move forward. The Germans had a particularly good combined heavy weapons tactic of using the MGss to lay down pinning fire, and then the mortar platoon would zero in on the stationary troops.

Dash, Down, Crawl, Observe!

Tally Ho!

+2 MajorB

MajorB for three. Especially when combined with the "empty" battlefield since most often the target has little idea where the fire originated.

With tanks hit by non penetrating hit, the reaction was normally not to take evasive action but to bail out. All the crew knew was that they were hit and would prefer to bail out rather than waste time checking the tank was intact.

I know I've seen this as an automatic reaction to fire in a skirmish game but I can't recall which one now. No roll needed but the figure would be prone so it was an inch of movement or something like that to get going.

It's a visceral reaction to receiving automatic fire. I would assume the unit takes what comes for that first couple of seconds (i.e., that turn), but after that treat as prone unless they actively get up to advance, change, or loiter about smartly. In my experience to do anything but to stay prone & moving to cover will require some active leadership event for Green and regular troops. As to rules that reflect this, I am not aware of any.

I think this discussion is a good example of game design. We don't need a take cover or bailout mechanic because the troops will do whatever makes sense. This then leads to the notion of modeling only "friction" or how effective the troops are given their situation.

The difference of crunchy vs streamlined rules TBH.

Check out TwoHourWargames reaction system.
When spotted (ie. one unit moves into sight of another unit), both units make a reaction roll to see what each one does (with modifiers for skill level and moving/stationary). A unit might fire first, duck back into cover or freeze up (ie. go prone).

Easily adjusted for mortar strikes, tank shots or mg fire. Matter of fact, it has been adjusted for the Nuts! rules.

Basic mechanics can be found in the free Chain Reaction: twohourwargames.com/free.html

When fired at, infantry units don't wait around to be activated or receive a command. They are trained to react in a specific way depending on the threat. Some call it an "Immediate Action Drill" or a "Course of Action."

When ambushed you got out of the "Kill Zone" or "Off the X." If you are ambushed at short range, 50-75 yards, we were trained to assault (charge or fire & maneuver) into the ambush. If greater than 75 yards it was probably best to fall back. Waiting for an order when getting ambushed means you'll be killed. Poorly trained or led units may hit the deck and stay in the Kill Zone or automatically run away. A Recon unit would most likely want to lay down suppressive fire and immediately break contact. It depends.

Rather than coming up with arbitrary or abstract rules I just laid out how infantry is trained. This is what I'm experimenting with:

The Germans would use a tactic where a mortar was registered and sighted in on a choke point they'd expect the enemy to come down and team up with a machine gun and have this spot under observation. When the enemy entered the location the machine gun opened fire forcing the enemy to immediately hit the deck (they didn't stand in the open waiting to be activated or ordered) which gave the signal to the mortar team to start dropping rounds – again no activation or order was needed.

I think what Patton was talking about was don't stay in the kill zone, keep moving.

Playing a historical game using the most popular rule sets and game mechanics makes it extremely hard to use real tactics or act as a real unit would in combat.

Wolfhag

This is what I'm experimenting with:

Sorry, the 80's called and they want their charts and modifiers back.

Bolt Action has a good model for "friction" you accumulate pin points as a rough measure and the troops do their thing (or not)

Force on Force by Ambush Alley games does a good job.

Thanks all. great ideas. I think since I use IABSM I might do something as follows: 1) if the unit has already used all its actions that turn (i.e. it has been activated earlier in this turn and most squads get 3 actions per turn) then it takes its lumps. If it has not yet been activated, then it can decide to either (a) go to ground or take cover but loses an action when it is subsequently activated or (b) take its hits but not lose any actions when it is subsequently activated…. that being said, I will look up all of your suggestions.

Sorry, the 80's called and they want their charts and modifiers back.

LOL, maybe so. At least I didn't submit you to my hand-drawn sketch.

I'm familiar with Bolt Action but we didn't use pin points in the platoon I was in.

Wolfhag

Dan, that would work.
I love force on forces action reaction die rolls. It was made for all this stuff.

Joe

Presumably you need to follow this with a rule for getting men back on their feet and moving again? Once they go to ground it can be a hell of a job for the NCOs to restore movement. There's something to be said for a degree of abstraction as long as the result is a plausible outcome.

One important thing to remember is you can not hear mortar rounds "incoming". They make no noise until they explode. As least that's the way it was in Viet Nam.

They make a noise when leaving the tube and can sometimes be seen at their apogee.

Wolfhag