"Which scale works "best" for Cold War?" Topic

In your opinion, to best represent Cold War/WW3 engagements, what scale works the best as far as visual interest and availability of models? I'm thinking 6mm or 10mm, but as I'm still doing research into model ranges I'm unsure which has the most variety for nations e.g. has the variety of Warsaw Pact nations (for infantry, I mean, since tanks are all Soviet design, although would this matter that much at lower scale?) and NATO forces. 10mm seems like it has less national variety, but I'm still comparing manufacturers.

My group isn't sure yet what nations we want, we're just beginning to look into things. We know we want to avoid 15mm as size is limited and none of us want the Battlefront-style "tank parking lot" effect. We plan to use Fistful of TOWS 3 as the rules.

On the same note, as far as the terrain goes, which has more available terrain? I know that 10mm is roughly "N-Scale" in model train sizes, but what's the equivalent if there is one to 6mm?

Depends on the scenario and size of table. For the 3SA rolling over the Hanover plain, 6mm would work, still need a large table!

For variety of troops a look at the NORTHAG Map shows dispositions of troops:

link

On Crossed Swords, 1986, my Bde, 33(UK) Armd Bde was in its 1 (BE) Corps support role so an exercise that saw UK, BE and German reserves working together, we even had 4 Warriors on trial, until 1 QLR broke them!

Tally Ho!

My recommendation is to go with the same scale you have in other eras. Terrain takes up more space than troops and if you can use it in different eras you save more storage space and preparation time.

Z scale is closest to 6mm scale. 6 mm is basically 1/285 and Z is 1/220. N is 1/160 and closest to 10mm or 1/144 scale.

I prefer 1/144 for the best compromise between detail and size, but am considering going 6mm myself simply because there are so many available models at that scale. 1/144 is getting better but still has a long way to go.

I have a bunch of 15mm stuff, but find it an impractical scale due to the tank parking lot effect. I

> I prefer 1/144 for the best compromise between detail and size, but am considering going 6mm myself simply because there are so many available models at that scale. 1/144 is getting better but still has a long way to go.

That is exactly the reason I'm thinking 6mm is the better choice. Way more variety.

Surrender to the classic 6mm. For everything but man to man tactical 6mm is STILL the answer!

My Cold War stuff is 2mm, so I can use the same models as T72s and T64s:)

6mm is a good one though, especially GHQ as the vehicles are gorgeous. I just find the smaller scale looks better with the weapon ranges.

Maybe 15mm for tactical stuff.

6mm, Heroics and Ros have a large range of NATO figures for the 80's and Russian and East German figures for the Warsaw Pact. H&R also have a large range of vehicles and guns, there is also Scotia, GHQ and CNC for vehicles. GHQ produce figures but many of these are for the 90's or later.

Depends on the scenario. I recently played a Cold War game where West Germans were defending a town from East Germans.
The scale was 15mm and the game looked great.

Probably the most important issue regarding scale relates to the scope of what you want to do relative to the size of your gaming table. What scale is most practicle for the type of game that you want to play.

I opted for 6mm for most of my Cold War gaming, and find that the overwhelming majority of models needed to represent almost everything for the entire span of the Cold War is available.

I mix equipment (considering 6mm, 1/285, 1300 interchangabe) from the companies mentioned above, and adding in CinC/PFC from Legions IV Hire, and Masters of Military on Shapeways, the latter particularly for West German models of the late 1950s and 1960s.

I scratchbuild most of my terrain, but there are plenty of sources for terrain items and buildings including Levin, Miniatures, GHQ, Irregular, GCmini, Timecast, Perfect Six Minis and others that are escaping me at the moment.

I started with 6mm in the early 1980s, and in more recent years considered other scales. I find that 2mm and 3mm are so small, that I lose the sense of them being miniatures (v. boardgame counters), additionally, the scale is so small that I can't really the get the WYSIWYG effect with the terrain.

10 and 12mm can look quite nice, but offer no real advantage over 6mm that I can find, unless eyesight issues are a consideration. 6mm can permit slightly larger scaope on any given table, plus there are more models avalable.

I use 15mm for infantry intensive games of more limited scope, where infantry are mounted individually. If I'm employing battalions or regiments on the table top, I go with the smaller scale, so I avoid the parking lot mess.

Larger scales look beautiful, but really limit the scope of what can be played, so I have avoided 20 and 28mm, except for Vietnam, where again I'm focussing on infantry and the use of helicopters.

Early this year, I started a 6mm Cold War campaign set in 1958. I haven't done much with it since March for reasons outside of gaming, but you can take a look at what I do at the following link, see if it is the type of thing that you are looking for, and what it looks like in 6mm if you haven't otherwise:

link

Best of luck and hope this is of some help.

Depends on what you want for your battles.

If armor centric, and/or more "realistic" weapons ranges, go 6mm. If you want infantry that you can identify, then 12mm or larger is the way to go.

Obviously, for larger battles with larger minis, you need progressively larger tables/battle areas, and/or the weapons and movement rates get scaled down ridiculously – e.g. Team Yankee for battles, where even SP artillery vehicles that should be 10+ miles behind the battle front are on the table.

6mm does have more selection too, but some are rapidly expanding their 12mm offerings.

On a separate note, I do agree on the scenario discussion. It seems Team Yankee players seem to want to bring all the armor to the table, when it seems a much more interesting and visually compelling game would feature far less units.

I often see games with 100+ vehicles on the table when I think a few platoons over the same table size would create more interesting maneuver and combat challenges.

That's just me, though.

For my own 'someday' project depicting the invasion of Taiwan by Chinese forces, I started collecting 6mm (though I had to make the Marine armor I bought Taiwanese Abrams since the Marines dropped their armor units since I started collecting).

I actually have a modicum of 28mm Ultramodern, and if you ran a few platoons supported by a handful of vehicles, that can create a fun, albeit small, scenario.

irishserb, really great terrain and the year is interesting. Have you collected any '58 US forces wih pentomic organisation?

I think I'm definitely suggesting 6mm. We haven't talked more than a "we want to do this" (new historical group since I've found people interested in more than 40K). Have to compare some manufacturers. I'm aware of GHQ, Heroic & Ross (sp?), I heard of CinC but they sold them off I think? The only one I can find now is in CA dollars. I think we're looking at late 80s/early 90s for the timeframe

I use 6mm miniatures. Many good arguments were already written for why to choose so.

Manufacturers:
Scotia Grendel
Heroics and Ros
Butler's Printed Models
Irregular Miniatures
CinC
GHQ

great variery in terms of types of vehicles, nations …

Many wargames rules (I consider using other rules, not designed for 6mm):
Cold War Commander
Battlegroup Northag
…

Lots of terrain options (you can also look and choose from the sci-fi range):
Leven Miniatures
Brigade Models
Alternative Armies

Lots of accessories for terrain and miniatures:
Perfect Six
Heroics and Ros
Scotia Grendel (an increased range)

I base my 6mm soldiers individually and it works for me.

I will also try some 3mm wargames.

in terms of real combat range none are perfect.

we just need time and money :))

The CinC line was acquired by Legions IV Hire in CA. Last time I checked, with the exchange rate, they ran a touch over $10 USD USD for a box of typically 5 miniatures. Service has been good from them.

Note that H&R has old smaller infantry and newer slightly larger sculpts. Though probably still a touch smaller than GHQ, I think the newer sculpts fit okay with GHQ infantry.

MILSPEX78, Yes, I have models for the pentomic division organizations. I haven't actually used it yet, but I don't think it is going to fair too well.

The GHQ infantry are far too large, at about 10mm scale, and NOT 6mm scale.

Irishserb – good notes on CinC, I was impressed with their niche vehicles for my 6mm project a few years back. I knew they were sold but didn't know who was the buyer so thanks for that. I'm looking a 6mm again and know who to buy from.

Yeah, ok, interesting. I'm looking forwards to seeing some '58 US units on your table.

Thresher01. I just pulled out my GHQ modern US infantry and I found a fully upright figure, a Stinger gunner. I measured and and from the base of his boots to the top of his helmet he's 7.5mm. So to eye level is going to be more like 6.5mm. So yeah, exagerated but definitely not 10mm. Don't we usually assume boot soles to eye level when we're talking mm "scale"?

Also if we're talking 1/285 as opposed to 1/300 then figure scale is more like 6.4mm for a 6 foot man anyway?

Thresher is right that GHQ are pretty tall, but of the seven armies (WWII and Cold War) that I bought GHQ for, I've been lucky in that the tallest fig is about 8.2mm from top of base to top of helmet.

I filled in gaps in my GHQ troops with the newer H&R figs which tend to be closer to around 7mm, and did the same in a few instances with new and older H&R, with the older ones being generally in the 6mm area.

Given that most of the figs aren't standing exactly upright, I think that some mixing is possible with GHQ and new H&R,
or old H&R and new H&R.

I find that it is easier to pick out old and new H&R, than the new H&R from the GHQ where I mixed the two. For the most part, I completed companies of NATO or battalions of Warpac infantry using a single manufacturer, and just accept that occasionally, my old H&R may come into contact with GHQ. At a few inches apart, from 2-4 feet away, it hasn't ruined anything for me. But admittedly, it is a matter of individual preference as to what is tolerable to mix.

Good advice all thank you!

10mm.

To me there is no question 1/144 (about 12mm). There is a huge range of stuff , see AOTRS Shipyards, we have even commissioned stuff at this scale (IMR2), Buffel, ILTIS jeeps, and I have even supplied Luschs and Unimog STL's just to help out, so these are available from form the above.

Now from a very personal point of view I don't like 6mm. While I will grudgingly admit for tanks its not too bad, too me it falls down big time when you come to small vehicles like the Ferrit, Luchs, Wiesel, even FV432's and M113's. Howe3ver we play typically at company level and to gain more plausibility we move turrets to indicate real formations. This is not practical at 6mm for small vehicles.

In addition it depends on the level of abstraction. If a built up area is just a blob with no defined features or heights or roads or even fixed buildings then 6mm may be OK. However we want sort of scaled down villages, with lots of roads and we differentiate between 1,2 and 3 story buildings. 6mm is far to small for me to move troops down small roads with houses close to the road without tweezers so definitely a no go for us.

At 12mm it is possible to have a game with effort just using a platoon of infantry, though 1/72 scale urban has its merits. For me 6mm is way to small to go down to platoon level.

Hopefully you can use my approach to help you form your own opinion on what you want out of the period and the rules you intend to use may influence your thinking.

Note I have not mentioned 2 or 3mm figures, they involve games outside my interest and experience but should be considered if very large games/rules are within your intended scope.

12mm I wasn't aware there was a lot of variety. Table size is a concern so I was operating on the idea of smaller scale to get the most out of a smaller size table without sacrificing too much. As well as 6mm in general seems a bit cheaper overall from the brief look I've taken.

Seems I have some more to consider!

For me: 3mm Oddzial Osmy and 20mm/1:72 Elhiem/Italieri/Revell.

Wayniac It is a bit strange but 1/144 and 6mm may share the same ground scale 1mm represents 1mm or 1yd depending on the rules. Now again you need to decide what ground scale you want and the size of battle and of course cost. Undeniably 6mm wins out on cost except for maybe 2/3mm but at that scale you may need a lot more so its wants looking into again its outside my useful knowledge.

Money ground scale and determination may be an issue. Very roughly, 6mm game would look and play the same as its 1/144 rival using 1mm represents 1m, but at 1mm represents 2m. The board dimensions would be 1/2 that of the 1/144 game but is would (personal opinion of course to fiddly. However if board size is key then it may be a way.

NOTE I have not mentioned Team Yankee or the equivalent sort of games. They have design parameters that I cannot relate too such as exponential ranging. The purport to be able to cope with a massive range of weapons but only by distorting space to a level I cannot consider plausible, but again its not my opinion that counts.

However if modelling is your key requirement they can, sort of, have stuff on table that otherwise would be ludicrous. A 155mm artillery piece may have a range of 48km, at 1mm represents 1 meter you would need a board 48m long, not very practical. But such games get the models on the board at a high cost to plausibility, but if the model aspects are what counts it may be a route for you.

I have been pretty much a 6mm/1:285th scale player and it is my preferred scale for the Cold War era.

I think if you want to do larger games of more than a company per side, it is a great scale.

As has been said already, there are already extensive numbers and variety of models in this scale by several manufacturers. There are also lots of 6mm vehicles and terrain options as well.

Ultimately, it comes down to a matter of personal taste.

I play 15 mm & 6 mm. If I were starting anew then I might do 10 mm.
If you think about it in a "scientific way", then 6mm makes sense for modern engagements with long ranges. 28 mm makes sense if you weapon is a sword.
10 mm & 15 mm are in between. 15 mm is certainly good for squad level engagements. Maybe 10 mm does everything.
If you are starting out, then get 15 mm for squad level & 6 mm for company+ level. 10's fit in there somewhere. 28 mm's are for special force skirmish raids.