"Bakhmut & The Ukraine Trench War" Topic

Bakhmut & The Ukraine Trench War – fortifications, attrition, and lessons by Perun, 19/12/2022.

The chapter on opportunity costs is interesting – the Ukrainians could have sent enough forces to Bakhmut to stop the Russian advance, but instead chose to attack east of Kharkiv – the Russians could have had enough troops to defend against this attack but instead chose to send troops to continue the attack toward Bakhmut.

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

One reason, I have read, in defending Bakmut and the policy of not retreating is Russias willingness to commit warcrimes against everyone. Ukraine does not want to retreat because the civilians left will suffer too much. So the policy is to defend at almost all costs instead of a more flexible defense, to spare civilians being tortured, raped and murdered by the invaders.

Let it be believed, by the easily led, that the military of the Ukraine are pure as the driven snow and have never and will never commit warcrimes against the recaptured civilian populices of the Eastern Ukraine who have seen the Russians as liberators rather than invaders.

Let it be so! I decree it! Thank you.

Russia Bad always. Ukraine Good always. World is simple. World is clearly black and white. Thank you.

Yes, Russia is bad, they invaded a sovereign country, effing Russian troll!

Yeah, Russia is pretty much the punk of the world, Milspex78.
Turns out it is nothing but a third rate punk though.

The video is quite interesting and I'm glad he doesn't invent numbers to make a point.

Milspex78 – you'll find most people do not defend any war crimes. Having Wagnerites openly document their crimes doesn't really help in the PR war.

LOL yes Russia is bad, there is no believable rational for what they have done. And sadly some Ukrainians will want their pound of flesh, blame Putin.

Ukrainian Drone Captures The Horrors Of The Battle For Bakhmut

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Armand

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Battle of Bakhmut – Russian advance during 8 months. @TheDeadDistrict, Feb 1, 2023.

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

That is a quite informative map – it seems that the current Russian plan might be to encircle the town of Bakhmut by pincer attacks from south and north, rather than trying to force their way straight into the town itself (or whatever remains of it after these months of fighting).

The madness behind the battle for Bakhmut

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Armand

Russia is using Infantry heavy forces, supported by a lot of FA. And a few MBTs, etc. As they have lost so many as the war progressed. Reports are many of their MBTs were taken out by mines during this current offensive.

As in the beginning of the war their Infantry is poorly trained and lead. The Russians will throw massive amounts of Infantry onto the meat grinder. They have more people than the Ukraine. And the kill ratio is 2-1 in the Ukraine's favor, IIRC. The Russian tactics seems to be more likened WWII or even WWI. They have learned nothing in a year of fighting. It may be a long war …

It seems Ukraine are retreating from Bakmut. The info I have been getting today is an orderly withdrawal from Bakmut. the position is too exposed to keep troops there.

It will most likely be proclaimed as a great Russian victory. Finally after six months or grueling warfare and absurdly high casualties Russia have taken a city of absolutely no strategic or tactical value.

The regular Russian army tried and was gutted. Wagner group tried and lost huge amounts of men (well mostly ex cons from prisons). Then the Russians marines went In (around Vuhledar) and got smashed. Now what remains of the Wagner (the more "elite" part and the VDV have after a long fight almost encircled Bakmut. So to avoid being encircled the Ukrainians retreat.

Happy victory Russians! you have won a few square kilometers of rubble of no value whatsoever…

I'm sure there will be much rejoicing amongst the leaders of Russia.
Along with the families of those Russian soldiers who still live.

I suspect the Ukrainians are going to say they are defending Bakhmut till after they've gone. Fighting withdrawals being tricky (I've certainly never managed it on the wargames table). I hope the suggestion they are committing their own elite units to this is part of covering the withdrawal and not an attempt to shore up the position at all costs. Though equally its being reported that the Russians are struggling themselves with ammunition supplies both artillery and small arms!

Russia Bad always. Ukraine Good always.

Hmmm ? Who invaded who ? Who started to commit wars ? I have been lately watching a lot of Law & Order SVU. Seems to me the Russian invasion is like when someone who is tortured & raped, then gets a chance to beat their rapist with a heavy metal object about the head & shoulders repeatedly. Almost to the point of death … or worse.

soledad +1

Fighting withdrawals being tricky

Yes one of the more complex ops a force can do. Either trading space for time or vis versa. However, with the Russian incompetence and the Ukraine's very well know capabilities. I think a tactical withdrawal could be executed with little trouble.

However, a tactical withdrawal does not necessarily mean defeat. But putting yourself in a better position, e.g. terrain, etc. to attrite your enemies' forces. Then counterattack those attrited forces. However, I don't really know why the Ukraine is withdrawing. But I don't think this signals a major Russian victory and the start of a new offensive. Again, they seem to have learned nothing in over a year in conflict with the Ukraine.

Why Bakhmut Is Falling

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Armand