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"Consequences" Topic

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42flanker22 Nov 2022 10:00 p.m. PST

Greetings, Thanksgiving greetings to y'all

Possibly a bit O/T but I was reading a couple of threads from July that touched on "for better or worse" as a result of the British losing in the AWI and was wondering if there any good books or essays that investigate the effect of the defeat on British politics and society. (I think I understand the effects in the Army and Navy).

doc mcb23 Nov 2022 4:20 a.m. PST

Good question. Commonwealths came from somewhere but don't know if American independence was a direct cause.

Brechtel198 Supporting Member of TMP23 Nov 2022 6:03 a.m. PST

One comment I found useful apparently came from George III and his ministers. They were still smarting from their defeat in the War of the Revolution and they were determined not to lose again at the hands of another 'upstart republic.'

The British defeat in 1783 was a 'grievous blow' to the king, likewise to English pride, the kingdom's finances, and to English trade. Those who ruled in Great Britain as a result of that defeat 'had hardened political opinion' and they were determined because of that defeat to wage 'a war of extermination' against the new French republic.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP23 Nov 2022 10:03 a.m. PST

Might read The Cousins Wars. Might also take a look at post-AWI Canada--the life of John Simcoe especially--to see the post-1783 Canadians getting away with things which were simply off the table in 1763. Restrictions on slavery and individual freehold farms (as opposed to tenant farming with the landlord in London) come immediately to mind.

One thing about losing is that it tends so focus attention. (Not always, of course.)

mildbill25 Nov 2022 5:28 a.m. PST

The Brits did not lose another colony until Ireland in the 20th century, so they learned something.

Brechtel198 Supporting Member of TMP25 Nov 2022 5:46 a.m. PST

When did the Commonwealth begin?

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP25 Nov 2022 10:45 a.m. PST

The term dates at least to 1884, and in 1959 Elizabeth II called the Canadian Confederation of 1867 the first example. The term is officially adopted in the Imperial Conference of 1926, except that the Irish Free State uses it in a loyalty oath in 1921. Take your pick.

Rod MacArthur25 Nov 2022 11:02 a.m. PST


1926, but formalised in 1931, an association of equal countries to replace the British Empire. Originally 7 counties, now 53. Newfoundland was one of the originals until it joined Canada and the Irish Free State was also there at the beginning, but later left in 1949. The other originals were UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa.


Brechtel198 Supporting Member of TMP26 Nov 2022 3:41 a.m. PST


Thanks very much for the information. As usual, your information is spot on.


42flanker26 Nov 2022 9:34 a.m. PST

"The Brits did not lose another colony until Ireland"

Canada in 1838 and India in 1857 experienced some local difficulty under very different circumstances. India was near run thing.

1897 on the Northwest Frontier had its moments and South Africa in 1881 and 1899 left several bloody noses, but the problems remained within the military sphere and the resoures of the Empire ensured success in the end.

42flanker26 Nov 2022 12:08 p.m. PST

@ robert piepenbrink

The Cousins Wars, looks interesting- a mighty spread in terms of the period examined.

Mark J Wilson30 Nov 2022 10:25 a.m. PST

@ Robert

I'm sure losing always focuses attention it's just what on, one's own mistakes or who to blame rather than admit one's own mistakes.

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