"Guide to Livery at the Battle of Bosworth" Topic
6 Posts
All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.
Please remember not to make new product announcements on the forum. Our advertisers pay for the privilege of making such announcements.
For more information, see the TMP FAQ.
Back to the Getting Started with Renaissance Gaming Message Board Back to the Getting Started with Medievals Message Board Back to the Medieval Painting Guides Message Board Back to the Medieval Discussion Message Board Back to the Renaissance Painting Guides Message Board Back to the War of the Roses Message Board
Areas of InterestMedieval Renaissance
Featured Hobby News Article
Featured Recent Link
Top-Rated Ruleset
Featured Workbench ArticleJay Wirth shows how using inks makes it easier to paint a 15mm scale army.
Featured Profile ArticleFor the time being, the last in our series of articles on the gates of Old Jerusalem.
Featured Book Review
|
Killerkatanas | 22 Nov 2022 4:08 p.m. PST |
Hi, After several weeks of research, I have compiled this list of known livery colors and badges worn by the forces of Richard and Henry at the Battle of Bosworth. The sources for this come mostly from the terrific booklet "Standards, Badges, and Livery Colors of the Wars of the Roses" by McGill and Jones, along with 15mm and 28mm recreations of flags from Freezywater, Citadelsix, Peter Smith, and Mikhail Betskii. I have also used information from the following websites: Complete Guide to Heraldry: link Battle of Bosworth Field a list of combatants: link The Peerage index to War of the Roses Combatants: link Livery Color's database: link Useful List of Livery Colors: link Wikipedia for the numerous names of the Dukes, Earls, Viscounts, Lords, and Sirs. Here on TMP correspondences, postings, and topics. The following identifications are organized with the livery color(s) (right/left), followed by the badge. There are a few badges that I could not identify, and these are identified with a ????. RICARDIANS Richard III blue/crimson, w/white boar or rose John Howard red, w/white lion rampant Henry Percy red/black, w/white half crescent Thomas Howard white/red, w/white helmet Francis Lovell blue/yellow, w/white hound Richard Ratcliffe white/black, ???? John Zouch black/purplish red, w/white donkey head Walter Deveraux white/red, w/yellow horseshoes William Catesby purplish red/blue, ???? Marmaduke Constable red, w/yellow anchor James Harrington black, w/white Harrington knot John Scrope white, w/black Cornish chough (bird) John Conyers white, w/red cross crosslets John De la Pole blue/yellow, w/white Antelope TUDORS Henry Tudor white/green, w/red dragon Jasper Tudor white/green, w/red dragon John de Vere orange, w/blue star outlined in white Philiberte de Chande French troops w/white crosses on a blue or red background Gilbert Talbot red/black, w/white talbot (dog) John Savage white, w/black unicorn head William Stanley red, w/white stag (deer) head Thomas Stanley orange/green, w/yellow eagles feet Ap Thomas white, w/black raven Simon Digby blue, w/white Osrich with horseshoe in beak Robert Willoughby red/white, w/black blackmoores head Edward Woodvlle green, w/white Sparrow? Edward Poynings red, w/white running unicorn William Berkley red/white, ???? Walter Hungerford red/green, w/two white sickles William Beaumont- white, w/green broom cod John Wells yellow/black, w/yellow Fleur-de-lis I hope this helps others. Please add to, comment, and correct this list as you see the need. |
Dal Gavan | 24 Nov 2022 5:10 p.m. PST |
Good work there, KK. Thomas Howard may also have used black with a white lion rampant, mate, if only for his immediate household. It's recorded that Ed IV sent him some black cloth as a present, because it was his livery colour. John de la Pole could also use a yale as a badge, while Berkley used a (red?) unicorn. |
Warspite1 | 25 Nov 2022 4:32 p.m. PST |
@Dal Gavan: Has someone been reading my book? :) Dal is right. In Bills, Bows and Bloodshed I do report that the Howard, Duke of Norfolk household wore black as a household livery yet we also know that he expected his Paston retainers to wear red. The black may have started as a mourning livery for the death of his first wife but it continued during the life of his second wife as gifts from Edward IV confirm. Barry |
Dal Gavan | 25 Nov 2022 8:46 p.m. PST |
Me read, Barry? Real multi-syllable words and everything? Perish the thought, mate. :-) I don't actually have any of my books here- they're all in storage. But I do have a couple of spreadsheets and, one day, I'll make notes as to where I got the info (I have done it for some, all Lancastrians, but not Howard yet). |
Killerkatanas | 06 Dec 2022 10:41 p.m. PST |
My research is done. I thought that I would share my final results here for anyone else that is looking for information. RICHARDIANS Richard III blue/crimson, w/white boar or rose John Howard red (possibly black), w/white lion rampant Henry Percy red/black, w/white half crescent Thomas Howard white/red, w/white helmet Francis Lovell blue/yellow, w/yellow padlock Richard Ratcliffe white/black, w/???? John Zouch black/purple-red, w/white donkey head Walter Deveraux white/red, w/yellow horseshoes William Catesby purple-red/blue, w/yellow lion passant Marmaduke Constable red, w/yellow anchor James Harrington black, w/white Harrington knot John Scrope white, w/black Cornish chough (bird) John Conyers white, w/red cross crosslets John De la Pole blue/yellow, w/white Antelope or "Yale" Henry Grey red/green, w/white badger Thomas Burgh blue, w/blue and yellow striped wreath "Torse" TUDORS Henry Tudor white/green, w/red dragon Jasper Tudor white/green, w/red dragon John de Vere orange, w/blue star outlined in white Philiberte de Chande French troops w/white crosses on a blue or red background Gilbert Talbot red/black, w/white talbot (dog) John Savage white, w/black unicorn head William Stanley red, w/white stag (deer) head Thomas Stanley orange/green, w/yellow eagles feet Ap Thomas white, w/black raven Simon Digby blue, w/white ostrich with horseshoe in beak Robert Willoughby red/white, w/black blackmoores head Edward Woodvlle green, w/white vase? Edward Poynings red, w/white running unicorn William Berkley red/white (possibly just plain red), with red (possibly white) unicorn Walter Hungerford red/green, w/white sickle with brown handle William Beaumont- white, w/green broom cod John Wells yellow/black, w/white bucket and chains Richard Tunstall black/white, w/white cockerel, red beak and yellow comb, wattle and feet Reginald Bray white, w/black falcon's claw Additional information was provided in the rules "Bills, Nows, and Bloodshed" by Barry Slemmings. Please feel free to comment and correct. |
Warspite1 | 07 Dec 2022 2:55 a.m. PST |
I get in everywhere! Warspite 1 (aka Barry Slemmings) |
|