"10/12mm WW2" Topic

As regards minimising sizing issues between the different producers, I will be standardising as follows

Canadian Tanks – Sherman and Stuart types – Butlers
Canadian Transport – Lancer Miniatures
Canadian Guns and Artillery – Pendraken
Self Propelled Artillery – Victrix
Infantry – Victrix
Additional infantry eg command etc Pendraken

German Tanks – Victrix
German Halftracks- Victrix
German transports – Paint and Glue
Guns and Artillery- Pendraken
Self Propelled Artillery – Victrix
Infantry – Victrix
Additional infantry eg command – Pendraken

Aircraft – Revell

The above should hopefully minimise sizing issues

Has anyone else noticed that the Victrix Panzer IV H is in fact a very late G type ?

They made the same mistake as PSC and have given the model a commander's split hatch when it should be a single circular one.

Its easy to rectify . either fill it in or place a circular hole punch piece of paper which is near to an exact fit for mine.

This is another similarity between the Victrix and PSC models.

Thanks for the information.

I'm afraid my collection is an army of samples

Infantry: Victrix and Pendraken
Artillery: Takara and Pendraken
Halftracks: Takara, 21.C Toys, Victrix
Aircraft: everything
Tanks, TDs, assault guns, SPGs, etc.: everything
Trucks: Still waiting on test orders, so just a little bit of everything

To be fair, I started with 1/144 gashopon planes, which lead me all over the collectible market in search of matching 3-4 ship sets, so I have a bewildering variety of planes. I inherited a box of Takara WTM and 21.C Toys tanks (mostly Germans, a few Soviets and Shermans and some 88s), which are either hard to find or hard to afford (or both).

I've been ordering samples to find manufacturers I like best, but each separate model will come from only one manufacturer, if I can help it (e.g. Victrix Wespes, BPM Hummels, Kamiya SU-76s and SU-85s, etc.). I find the small differences between manufacturers of the same model to be jarring. My Tiger II collection is not only too big (so… many… TIGERS!), it looks like it's composed of 3 different tanks.

- Ix

mysteron do you have any plans yet for terrain?

I am specifically interested in hex-based gaming in this scale, so I'm currently agonizing over Hexon or a giant Cigar Box Battle Mat craft project. TBH, I'd have bought the Hexon already if it weren't such a storage problem.

- Ix

Yellow Admiral,
Cheap trucks and cheap shipping. auction
Cheap anti-tank guns in packs of three. Not so cheap shipping.
link

Thanks! I've bought from giftofangel before, but I totally missed the trucks. I actually did buy a big lot of the ATGs (and a few tanks) from MM, they should be here any day.

What theater is that cammo pattern supposed to be for? I've never seen a photo of a US WWII truck in any color other than monochrome OD or green.

No idea, maybe Italy or maybe made up? I've bought from both of them too.

@YA

I have just got some 3D printed buildings done by a friend of a friend :)

I intend using N Guage model rail buildings as well . Faller Vollmer etc.

Just built a Victrix StUG

Very pleased with the model . My only gripe is yet again teh Pegs . I ended up cutting these and aligning the bottom to the hull with my eye .

You also get the alternative gun to make the StuH 42 . A nice touch and again the build is similar to the PSC ,model albeit much smaller

You also get the alternative gun to make the StuH 42

Oh that's brilliant! I wish I'd known that, I'd have ordered two boxes of StuGs.

Ah, well, have to leave something for future shopping.

- Ix

I have just got some 3D printed buildings done by a friend of a friend :)

I intend using N Guage model rail buildings as well . Faller Vollmer etc.

I haven't even gotten to buildings.

I just pulled the trigger on a giant order of Hexon tiles (6 boxes, plus single hexes, hills, a mountain set, etc.). I also have a huge pile of cloth waiting to become farm fields, and cunning plans for crafty rivers and streams.

I did some spot comparisons and I think the forests I've made for 15mm gaming will work fine for 1/144. My large collection of 1" wide dirt roads will also look just fine in Russian and Tunisian countryside, but might be a bit muddy for Europe or Cyrenaica.

- Ix

 Yellow Admiral  I would suggest the 2 high hill slopes (circa 18mm tall). for 1/144 that's what we use most. We do have the single high hills (circa 8mm tall) but as they are less than a man high we tend not to be imaginative enough to use them.

I feel sure you will not regret the purchase. We buy redy flocked and they have lasted 10 years of regular play without significant degradation. If you become a Hexon II freak you will notice the need for a few additional alternatives. We FDM printed versions but you w have to do your own Flocking.

Also because 1/144 is such a perfect size you can make boxes for some terrain in Hex form and then use the top on the battlefield saving quite a lot of cost and more importantly storage volume.

Also because 1/144 is such a perfect size you can make boxes for some terrain in Hex form and then use the top on the battlefield saving quite a lot of cost and more importantly storage volume.

I'm not sure what this means. Do you have any pictures?

All of my pre-painted miniatures have arrived, so the next project is paintbrush and decal customization of ID numbers.

A few of the 3D prints have arrived, but the weather has been very disagreeable for painting. Those may wait for Spring.

Also, my sprawling Pendraken order of Soviet and German artillery arrived. Now I actually have to decide on a basing scheme for the poor bloody infantry, so I can build the gun crew stands. Thick or thin bases? Standard frontage or whatever fits? Rectangular or circular? Metal or plastic? What have I gotten myself into?

- Ix

Oh, and: I have about 3-4 weeks to make room in the gaming shed for all that Hexon.

The Scalefiend prints arrived today.

The Sherman and M3 Stuart both have a few layer lines across the glacis. In both cases that's going to be really hard to correct, because of all the little details in the way.

The Stuart also has a mismatched turret peg and mounting hole. The peg is much smaller, so the turret will have to be sleeved if I want it to rotate. That doesn't sound like a project I care for, so I'll have to glue it down, a suboptimal solution.

- Ix

Another thing I forgot to mention: the treads of the Sherman are separate pieces, and they have no guide slots or pegs. The hull is just flat and blank where they glue down. Locating them properly will have to be done by eye.

My test order of Anschluss 3D prints arrived today, just ahead of the sleigh on the roof. All the models look really nice, but a few had liquid resin residue. I'll have to figure out the best way to wash these before I paint any of them.

The order included three Ostwinds. Comparing it to my Takara WTM Wirbelwind, the hull is nearly identical width and length, but slightly shorter. I don't mind, it's just a thing to note.

The StuG IV hulls were also almost identical proportions to the Takara WTM Jagdpanzer IVs I have. The StuG IV is slightly shorter too, but I have no idea which is supposed to be the shorter AFV. It's probably unfair to compare heights of these because the compartments were such different designs.

All the turrets on the models I got (KV II, Ostwind) fit really well and will hold by friction alone, so I get to have rotating turrets.

I like these models a lot. I wish the Anschluss range included a lot more models.

- Ix

Meanwhile, in pre-paint world….

I bought a set of full-box sets of the F-Toys Battle Tank Kit Collection, to get the Pz IIIs and T-34/85s and polka-dot Panthers.

Today I set out to build one of the T-34/85 kits, and HOLY FRIJOLES THESE ARE FIDDLY! Some of the pieces are inexcusably small (headlight, hull handrails), and some seem to be gratuitously separated (e.g. the road wheels are each two pieces). The worst part by far is the separate tracks – somehow they expect me to stretch them over the fragile little plastic wheels on plastic pegs without breaking anything. That's nuts. An hour of trying to build a single tank left me with pieces I can't assemble, and a rising urge to commit murder.

I think these F-Toys kits are a huge waste of my time. The pre-painting isn't saving me any effort, especially not for monotone Soviets. I'd rather start with a single-piece 3D print and apply paint than start with painted pieces and try to assemble them with a microscope and tweezers.

- Ix

PS: this photo is from F-Toys itself, and the color of that right-hand T-34/85 is completely wrong. It's actually identical to the left-most one, except for the longitudinal white stripe on the horizontal hull surfaces.

I really wish I didn't click on the topic now. I've started collecting 6mm armor along with 6mm Timecast houses and I'm drooling over these Victrix minis.

Ugh

How do these work with 6mm houses? Will it look out of whack?

Curse you all

6mm is either 1/300 or 1/285 scale, half the size of 1/144, so they look out of whack together. (In fact, I think 1/285 was derived by rounding off 1/288, the next divide-by-2 step down from the old progression 1/144, 1/72, 1/35, etc.)

Most gamers seem to feel N scale (1/160) is acceptably close for some kinds of things (buildings, trains, scenery), and there's plenty of mixing of 10mm (1/150ish) and 12mm (1/144). The true "next scale down" from 1/144 would probably be 1/200, but I never see buildings in that scale.

Thanks Yellow Admiral. Think I'll just stick to 6mm. Already too much invested in 6mm terrain and houses to justify switching scales.

I think that's wise. 6mm is a good scale with hordes of fine miniatures available, and a better scale for non-skirmish gaming anyway. GHQ miniatures leave nothing behind compared to 1/144 except physical size, and everything they produce you can buy new in any quantity you like; finding 1/144 options is more of a treasure hunt. GHQ vehicles may be pricey, but 1/144 costs more.

For those who own a 3D printer and like the STLs available (or like spending hours with CAD software) it is of course possible to build a vast array at near-zero cost, but that's true in any scale now.

I will say that I have never liked the 1/300 and 1/285 aircraft very much; the proportions rarely seem quite right. Because I game with telescoping rods, the weight of metal planes is also an issue. Once I got drawn into gaming with 1/144 plastic planes (esp. the gashopon pre-painted ones), I couldn't really go back.

- Ix

YA

I dont think it will be long before Victrix bring out their T34s . Going off rest of their range so far ,they are likely to be good . I just wish they would do more for the Brits with Victrix being British . The British Shermans for me would be a no brainer.

My review of the STUG is on their site despite my minor criticism when it comes to the building process.

The pictures of sprues make it look like I'll be unable to build only T-34/85s, so I could wind up with a huge surplus of T-34/76s. I have 30 already.

Victrix started out concentrating on late war West Front, but that theme seems to have disintegrated into squirrel chasing, and the only way to build out a good set of scenarios is to buy from other vendors. The Wespe seems like an especially odd choice for a scale that is clearly very short-range-tactical in focus. (Not that I'm complaining – I bought a set, and I really wish they'd release the Hummel next. )

Now that they've opened the East Front can of worms, there is an awful lot to chew through, but I'm half expecting future releases to move to North Africa or the Pacific or something. They haven't even finished NWE yet.

I was hoping that after the '44-45 NWE, they'd move to the desert. North Africa is a popular gaming topic and it's actually kinda hard to collect all the vehicles for it in 1/144. They already got a start with the Panzer IVF and IVG. Some Panzer III versions would be a great next release.

Its purely personal but I would not touch GHQ with a Barge Pole. The metal is far too soft to make a war games model. I bought a pack and spent ages trying to straiten out the guns then realized with play they would all be bent in a single evening; unless you mounted them on a 3 ft high base, bit pointless for a 6mm figure. I gave them away, useless to me. But each to their own.

link

Excellent news. Thanks!

I guess I'll have to get some Su-76s too. I have 6, but all early, and no crew figures for them.

Thanks for the link machinehead for the "new" T34s .

At this point I have to comment. Is there only me that can see similarities with some of the Victrix models and those of the PSC range? I am sure everything is above board and Bristol fashion .

Looking at the T34s and having built a range of their kits ,here are my observations .

T34- They look to have the same minor error as the old PSC models . The same options ie the 76mmm and 85mm versions . The same spoked wheels but you do have the option of the disc wheels with the Victrix as well.
The error I was referring too was the turret looks to sit too high .

Hanomag – The same accessories and crew poses right the way down to the spare tyre .

Panzer IV H- THe same version as PSC and has a similar build feel when I built mine. The version chosen is more of a very late Ausf G with the split commanders hatch . The H was more commonly fitted with the single circular piece hatch .

I did an easy conversion using the spare hatch from the Stug Kit which also has the same options as the PSC model .

Maybe Victrix is employing the PSC designer to make their WWII models….? Just a guess.

I don't own any PSC models (wrong scale, etc.) and my one Victrix order still hasn't arrived (placed on Nov 25) so I wouldn't have noticed any of the similarities mentioned.

- Ix

I really wish I didn't click on the topic now. I've started collecting 6mm armor along with 6mm Timecast houses and I'm drooling over these Victrix minis.

Same here. I was looking at 6mm due to a small table space, but now maybe 1/144 might work better… it's too bad there's not a lot in the way of Modern that I can find; I have a small group looking to do a cold war project and we were deciding on 6mm vs. 10mm, but I found much more variety in 6mm. At least without paying out the wazoo for shipping to the US. I don't really want to go back and say no I changed my mind, let's do 10mm lol but for my own stuff, the 1/144 is very tempting.

- Wayne

Wayniac

Lots of 1/144 Modederns here inclueding LOTS of cold war and at a reasonable price.

link

Look under Maneouvre Group Models. I have lots of Shipyards models are as accurate scale.

You're not helping :P

Thanks Ushcha

I think this scale is one of those thats going to be a prelude to the future . I reckon in less than 10 years most miniatures will be 3 D printed in resin and the majority of us will be printing from home using our own printers.

Scary vision for some but thats how things progress .

My own WW2 forces I am colleting now will be around 50% printed models for vehicles . Prior to that I just had a handful of the old PLA models in 15mm .

Its on another thread but lots of my 1/144 scenery is in this thread. Its why to me 1/144 is the ultimate scale for both WW2 and Modern.

TMP link

Note the models are all 1/144 and all Shipyards stuff.

Wayniac

Not sure how they scale out since "10mm" really is rather arbitrary but for moderns you also have Timecast
link

I have been using a mix of 12mm Victrix infantry and Arrowhead Miniatures armor. With a bit of picking through the Victrix British infantry pack, there are plenty of figures that paint-up fine for wintertime North Africa.

I have a small group looking to do a cold war project and we were deciding on 6mm vs. 10mm, but I found much more variety in 6mm. At least without paying out the wazoo for shipping to the US. I don't really want to go back and say no I changed my mind, let's do 10mm lol but for my own stuff, the 1/144 is very tempting.

For modern wargaming, 6mm has advantages over 1/144. The 1/144 tanks are just about the minimum size for micro-tactical concerns – turning turrets, measuring precise distances and angles, etc. For formation gaming (esp. where 1 model = multiple vehicles) the smaller size of 6mm has a lot less scale distortion (between models and table distances, building footprints, road width, field size, etc.).

For modern combined arms gaming (e.g. aircraft and artillery on the table) I would definitely choose 6mm. Most jet age ground attack aircraft are about the size of WWII twin-engine bombers (excepting helicopters), and thus rather large in 1/144 scale; as much as I would love to have a few 1/144 Warthogs, I don't really want to store them, and I have no idea how to game with them. A 1/144 scale C-130 gunship would barely fit through the door…

For the Cold War Period I have found that Red3 ,PSC,Butlers and Timecast are all compatible to varying degrees .Its all dependent on the model. For example the Timecast T64 and be used alongside PSC T64s especially if you choose the Timecast BV version. The Red3 T 64 is a tad smaller. Likewise the Red3 Challenger 1 is exactly the same size as the Butlers Model .Timecast Chieftain tanks again I find are campatable with Red3 .

Its a case of trial and error if your mixing .

I dont have any of the new Pendraken moderns to be able to compare them

It's rare I agee with folk but Yellow Admiral makse some good points. 1/144 is good for battles that cover about 2.5km or less across. Far too snall to really get aircraft or actual artillery battries on table in. If you look at actual real world aircragy fighting with a 1% of a rocket hitting. it used losts of aircraft. At that scale the board is a map and the bits are playing pieces representing a multitude of elements. Now this has no interest for me but I have thought that 2 or 3mm scale may be better than 6mm if I went that way.

Yellow Admiral – late but here are a coup;le og pics of the Hex boxes I use, next to a hill slope for comparison.

This shows a box 4 hex high and 2 hrx high. The light colured trays fit inside the box lids which function the same as the real hex's. The black box lid is an early version not so g00d. The 2 hex high lid is more moderen amd much better.

Just picked up some Victrix Fireflies to add to my Sherman troops . I do have Butlers and a Red3 Firefly already . Size for size they are all compatible except the Victrix gun appears to be under scale Therefore the Victrix Firefly will mix with Butlers and Red3 Shermans well but keep them separate from other Fireflys

An exciting prospect are the mew British Paras which are being worked on at Victrix by a new sculptor. Hopefully her addition to the team may speed things up a little .

I just wished they employed someone who has a knowledge of WW2 because some of the gaps in the range and the transfer choices indicate a need for someone with that knowledge.

Placing American Sherman M4A3s in a British bundle isnt acceptable to me in this day and age . Proxying is something I did yesteryear in 20mm when availability wasnt good and before the internet of course .

A slight change of subject but I am struggling getting decent stowage for my tanks . The sets I have bought tend to be almost unuseable and resorting to using some of my smaller end 15mm collection .

So does anyone know of a good source for 12mm stowage ?

Just wanted to add that Butlers have added the Priest to their range including the "unfrocked Priest" or Priest Kangaroo.

The concept using the Priest Kangaroo was devised by General Guy Simmonds , the Commander of the Canadian 2 Corps for use starting in Operation Totalize .About 70 were converted .

For me these will be a great addition and to further make things interesting he stripped out all the armoured half tracks and carriers from Artillery and other rear units to give to his infantry . This will add more variety to your infantry units .

A few good, new suppliers that are reasonably priced -

link

Anschluss Publishing models are mostly one-piece made of resin (they could be 3D prints, or from resin molds of 3D printed vehicles and weapons, because they sometimes exhibit slightly perceptible printing lines). Good price, especially at the current US dollar to British pound exchange rate.

Anschluss is just now previewing some armor pertinent to North Africa on their Facebook page, unfortunately, they sometimes mislabel the particular variant (but the pictures are clear enough to see what's being offered). ;)

Another UK supplier -

scalefiend.com/about

Scalefiend are resin kits (a little cleaning and assembly can be required). They also have a few Western Desert models (as I saw Yellow Admiral's posting about those in another thread, these sources above in addition to Arrowhead).

Also, Scalefiend has a good variety of WW2 French tanks!

Pendraken, Red3, and Miniature Figurines do moderns, along with a few others – some slight variation in sizes between 1/144 and 1/150, so don't mix vehicles in the same units to avoid that issue.

The above, as well as many others do WWII as well, in addition to Arrowhead, which makes mainly WWII in 1/144th scale to match the plastics (Pegasus, Takara, CanDo/Dragon, etc.).

Pit-Head and another whose name escapes me right now also produce stuff for WWII.

There's stuff on the USA Shapeways (AOTRS Shipyards amongst others), and another 3D printer in the Netherlands, which produce very nice stuff too. The latter does mainly 1/150th, but will rescale to 1/144 with a slight bump in price, when requested.

Kamiya sold on eBay also does 3D prints of WWII and Cold War items too.

I find the resin prints are expensive compared to other, more traditionally cast minis, so try to avoid those except where they are the only option.

1/144th or 12mm (10mm also referred too for the same scale), are good for mixed infantry and armor battles. 6mm for more armor-centric battles.

Really seems we could use a 10/12mm board or 1/144th if you prefer

Marc, that's helluva a good idea.

Also, when should we start planning for our Small Revolution Con (that would be a blast).

I was really lucky to find a reliable ebay source of Takara WTM prepaints from Japan. She would sell sets of 2-3 vehicles for under the £15.00 GBP mark. Over £15.00 GBP, UK Post Office charges £8.00 GBP for import duty collection on top of duty! Sadly, she is not on ebay now and costs rose above £15.00 GBP mark, anyway.
But I have DOZENS, inc some of the 'rare'items such as US Shermans, M8s, etc.
Victrix are VERY good, but need painting. Infantry… Pendraken or Victrix.
I have a 'problem' with basing Inf as I do not now want to base vehicles, so Inf on mdf appear huge when alongside. You can 'sink' inf into MDF bases, but fiddly!
What I went for was using small coins… in UK, 1p or the very old 1/2ps… you may still find bags on ebay. US Cents would be comparable.
Anyway… good luck and enjoy! I prefer 10mm / 1/144 to 15mm unless I want to go for 1/76. I used to love the GHQ 1/285… but just cannot SEE them now.

I have also bought into Skytrex 1/200… often with new turrets from Butlers as special orders, although hulls need to be drilled out to accomodate. Bigger than 1/285, you can add some stowage or commanders much more easily! Some 6mm inf 'fit' in OK, Adler esp as do some of the ranges of 6mm buildings.

Really seems we could use a 10/12mm board or 1/144th if you prefer

I agree, enough to propose a 1/144 board back in November; also Heedless Horseman proposed a 10mm board in 2021. Both proposals are inclusive of all the neighboring scales – 10mm, 12mm, 1/160, 1/150, 1/144, N scale, etc. Everyone here should add input to one or both so that if/when the TMP staff looks at one, it is more likely to be considered.

- Ix

Hopefully, we'll get a 1/144th, or N Scale gaming board soon.