Help support TMP


"Marshal Saxe invades England?" Topic


8 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

Please remember not to make new product announcements on the forum. Our advertisers pay for the privilege of making such announcements.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the Age of Sail Message Board

Back to the SYW Message Board

Back to the 18th Century Scenarios Message Board

Back to the 18th Century Discussion Message Board


Areas of Interest

Renaissance
18th Century
Napoleonic
19th Century

Featured Hobby News Article


Featured Link


Top-Rated Ruleset

Days of Knights


Rating: gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star 


Featured Showcase Article

Amazon's Snow Queen Set

If snowflakes resemble snowy bees, then who rules over the snowflakes?


Featured Workbench Article


Featured Profile Article

First Look: Barrage's 28mm Streets & Sidewalks

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian looks at some new terrain products, which use space age technology!


Current Poll


1,186 hits since 13 Oct 2022
©1994-2024 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?


TMP logo

Membership

Please sign in to your membership account, or, if you are not yet a member, please sign up for your free membership account.
Personal logo Yellow Admiral Supporting Member of TMP13 Oct 2022 1:44 p.m. PST

Has anyone tried to game the attempted French invasion of England in 1744?

If so, I'd love to know how it was done, and how it worked out. An invasion force of 12,000-15,000 French regulars under de Saxe seems like something that might have actually worked, if they'd gotten ashore. Even a partial success (marching around England, but without decisive victories) would put the campaign of The '45 in a whole new light.

I can sort of guess at the British OOBs based on the real life activities to resist this invasion, and over the next two years during the Jacobite Rebellion. I have no idea where to find an OOB for the French forces. Any ideas?

- Ix

Personal logo Yellow Admiral Supporting Member of TMP13 Oct 2022 1:51 p.m. PST

For once, I'm mostly interested in the land campaign, but as an aside, there are a couple of interesting naval encounters possible:

IRL the 22 warships under de Rocquefeuil fled when they spotted the larger British fleet under Norris in the Downs (off Deal). This British fleet had to be neutralized for the French troops to get ashore, so engagement by de Rocquefeuil seems like a prerequisite for success. Perhaps a night attack with fireships? A desultory engagement to coax Norris into chase in the wrong direction? An attack with a smaller fleet is a very interesting tactical problem in the Age of Sail.

The Battle of Toulon (Feb 1744) was actually an attempt to distract British naval forces long enough to let the transports sneak over from Dunkirk. In the event, it was a debacle for both sides (and at least a fortnight too late), but that wasn't a foregone conclusion. I've always wanted to play this battle, and it could be a really fun addition to a naval component of the invasion.

- Ix

Personal logo Yellow Admiral Supporting Member of TMP13 Oct 2022 2:10 p.m. PST

An aside to the aside: I have yet to see a single model of a British 3-decker 80, in any scale. Any thoughts on where I might something suitable in 1/1200 or 1/2400 much appreciated.

This was an important but notorious ship type in the Royal Navy until after the WAS, and the horrific performance of a few at Toulon in 1744 was one of the final straws that got them decommissioned and replaced. They were invented in the late 1600s when a 3-decker 80 was a large and powerful line of battle ship; by the mid-18th C. they were relatively slow, crank, excessive of draught, and effectively undergunned because the lower gunports had to stay closed to leeward in any amount of wind. I've always wanted to get some into a game. grin

- Ix

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP14 Oct 2022 6:27 a.m. PST

Not sure where to find the OOB but that would be great "what if" – Marshal Saxe would likely have beaten the pants off most British commanders of the day

Royston Papworth14 Oct 2022 11:44 a.m. PST

As alternative, you could look at the 1759 attempt. You only need to assume the Royal Navy failed at Quiberion Bay. I know, a tall order, but as Britain had been denuded of troops, it would have been likely to succeed..

Blutarski14 Oct 2022 4:12 p.m. PST

Hi YA,
Your post about modelling those horrid 80-gun three-deckers got me thinking. A quick peek into Brian Lavery's book "The Ship of the Line" Volume 1 shows the following -

Dimensions of an early 80 gun three-decker
LGD – 156 ft
LK – 127.6 ft
Br – 43.6 ft

Dimensions of a 64 gun two-decker
LGD – 158 ft
LK – 129.6 ft
Br – `44.6 ft

The hull dimensions are pretty close.

I'm talking 1:2400 scale AoS models here – What if you started with a model of a 64 gun two-decker, added a layer to the bottom of the hull equivalent in thickness to one gun deck, then painted it up as a three-decker?

You might want to compare mast heights, if you're in a nit-picky mood, but I think it could work.

B

Personal logo Yellow Admiral Supporting Member of TMP14 Oct 2022 8:40 p.m. PST

That might actually be doable in 1/2400 scale.

But it's probably even easier to cajole Henry Turner into making an STL of one. :-)

- Ix

Personal logo Yellow Admiral Supporting Member of TMP16 Oct 2022 9:37 a.m. PST

Thinking more about making 3-decker 80s…

Almost 3 decades ago, I made a couple 1/1200 SOL hulls out of balsa and plastic. The basic hull turned out to be pretty easy, but finishing the models was impossible, because there were too many things I couldn't do. I may have solved all of those problems in the intervening decades.

I never found a way to craft stern galleries I liked, but that problem is easily solved by ordering parts from GHQ.

I've figured out how to make masts and sails easily enough, and ordering sets from Langton is even easier.

I've learned a few ways to make resin castings, so maybe now I could do it without destroying the master.

Uh, oh. I may be launching another project…


I think the remaining hard part here is finding paintings of the subject. The only 3-decker 80s I've ever seen in art were of 17th C. ships. I'm not sure how these looked in the early 18th C. I'll probably have to interpolate 17th C. gunport arrangements into early 18th C. construction methods (rake, decks, sail plans) and choose stern galleries that could pass.

- Ix

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.