"Marshal Saxe invades England?" Topic

Has anyone tried to game the attempted French invasion of England in 1744?

If so, I'd love to know how it was done, and how it worked out. An invasion force of 12,000-15,000 French regulars under de Saxe seems like something that might have actually worked, if they'd gotten ashore. Even a partial success (marching around England, but without decisive victories) would put the campaign of The '45 in a whole new light.

I can sort of guess at the British OOBs based on the real life activities to resist this invasion, and over the next two years during the Jacobite Rebellion. I have no idea where to find an OOB for the French forces. Any ideas?

- Ix

For once, I'm mostly interested in the land campaign, but as an aside, there are a couple of interesting naval encounters possible:

IRL the 22 warships under de Rocquefeuil fled when they spotted the larger British fleet under Norris in the Downs (off Deal). This British fleet had to be neutralized for the French troops to get ashore, so engagement by de Rocquefeuil seems like a prerequisite for success. Perhaps a night attack with fireships? A desultory engagement to coax Norris into chase in the wrong direction? An attack with a smaller fleet is a very interesting tactical problem in the Age of Sail.

The Battle of Toulon (Feb 1744) was actually an attempt to distract British naval forces long enough to let the transports sneak over from Dunkirk. In the event, it was a debacle for both sides (and at least a fortnight too late), but that wasn't a foregone conclusion. I've always wanted to play this battle, and it could be a really fun addition to a naval component of the invasion.

- Ix

An aside to the aside: I have yet to see a single model of a British 3-decker 80, in any scale. Any thoughts on where I might something suitable in 1/1200 or 1/2400 much appreciated.

This was an important but notorious ship type in the Royal Navy until after the WAS, and the horrific performance of a few at Toulon in 1744 was one of the final straws that got them decommissioned and replaced. They were invented in the late 1600s when a 3-decker 80 was a large and powerful line of battle ship; by the mid-18th C. they were relatively slow, crank, excessive of draught, and effectively undergunned because the lower gunports had to stay closed to leeward in any amount of wind. I've always wanted to get some into a game.

- Ix

Not sure where to find the OOB but that would be great "what if" – Marshal Saxe would likely have beaten the pants off most British commanders of the day

As alternative, you could look at the 1759 attempt. You only need to assume the Royal Navy failed at Quiberion Bay. I know, a tall order, but as Britain had been denuded of troops, it would have been likely to succeed..

Hi YA,
Your post about modelling those horrid 80-gun three-deckers got me thinking. A quick peek into Brian Lavery's book "The Ship of the Line" Volume 1 shows the following -

Dimensions of an early 80 gun three-decker
LGD – 156 ft
LK – 127.6 ft
Br – 43.6 ft

Dimensions of a 64 gun two-decker
LGD – 158 ft
LK – 129.6 ft
Br – `44.6 ft

The hull dimensions are pretty close.

I'm talking 1:2400 scale AoS models here – What if you started with a model of a 64 gun two-decker, added a layer to the bottom of the hull equivalent in thickness to one gun deck, then painted it up as a three-decker?

You might want to compare mast heights, if you're in a nit-picky mood, but I think it could work.

B

That might actually be doable in 1/2400 scale.

But it's probably even easier to cajole Henry Turner into making an STL of one. :-)

- Ix

Thinking more about making 3-decker 80s…

Almost 3 decades ago, I made a couple 1/1200 SOL hulls out of balsa and plastic. The basic hull turned out to be pretty easy, but finishing the models was impossible, because there were too many things I couldn't do. I may have solved all of those problems in the intervening decades.

I never found a way to craft stern galleries I liked, but that problem is easily solved by ordering parts from GHQ.

I've figured out how to make masts and sails easily enough, and ordering sets from Langton is even easier.

I've learned a few ways to make resin castings, so maybe now I could do it without destroying the master.

Uh, oh. I may be launching another project…

I think the remaining hard part here is finding paintings of the subject. The only 3-decker 80s I've ever seen in art were of 17th C. ships. I'm not sure how these looked in the early 18th C. I'll probably have to interpolate 17th C. gunport arrangements into early 18th C. construction methods (rake, decks, sail plans) and choose stern galleries that could pass.

- Ix