"Terrain vs Army spending." Topic

I've posted this here, as Modern games often use far more terrain. Since the Enclosures act starting from about 1604 in the UK the number of field boundaries increased to the extent it is today. Recent satellite images of Ukraine show vast numbers of fields. At the same time there is a parallel growth in urban areas. This means that realistic battlefields will have lots of terrain, hills, trees, hedges, villages and roads.
In Germany in the 80's villages are about 2km apart in the UK area of defense. On that basis terrain is a key item in a war game. So how much do you spend on terrain?

Lets keep it simple say a lot more than you spend on an army, the same as an army or much less.

I guess I owe an explanation. As some of you may have seen I am having a hedge fixation at the moment with articulated hedges being the current terrain improvement project. At some point I an going to make the 1/144 scale system available as .STL files and printed versions available via AOTRS Shipyards. I've done the costing the printed parts which would cost £4.00 GBP to £5.00 GBP for a meter. Now for a decent game you will need a minimum of 10 to 12m even for a 6' by 4' board.

That seemed a lot (me being mean). However if I look at our investment the basic board (6ft by 4ft) surface of Kalista Hex now costs at £150.00 GBP, about the same as a good battle mat. I guess the hill stuff alone is another £100.00 GBP to £200.00 GBP and still no roads, trees (never cheap), rivers and buildings. So terrain has got to have cost us £700.00 GBP plus. Probably much more as we no fight on 8ft by 6tft of Kalistra hexos. An army well, I have 1 big one for comparison about 200 vehicles (1/144) + infantry so probably of the order of £800.00 GBP+

So its surprising just how much we have spent on terrain even though we make some of it ourselves. If we paid for figures to be painted as some do our army spending would be dwarfed.

So how do you see terrain in the scheme of things?

As an aside to get it in perspective. a Football (soccer)season ticket casts between £450.00 GBP to about £2,000.00 GBP and that does not get you into every game!

For ACW 15mm our killer is Trees…

Just about every battlefield has a plethora of trees. (Unless you want to fight Val Verde or Glorietta Pass), and then comes some fields, and roads.

Right now, I have most of the terrain I need for my gaming, but I am still (and always) short on trees….

I took one year and focused my budget and effort on Terrain. Now I can bury a table with GeoHex and Trees, and have plenty more.

For me the 'trade-off' is buildings. Need to look right but not be too big or too small. I've ended up with one set for Big Battles and another for Skirmish games

For me the issue is not so much money as it is space. I'd love to have large sets of 28mm buildings for multiple time periods, but I'm at the point now where any plan to acquire new stuff must include disposal of something old. Troops, in their serried ranks inside their flat boxes, take up comparably much less space.

Home made terrain can be simple, functional, and inexpensive. Miniatures need to be purchased. Most of my money goes to the minis.

I admit that I have always cheaped-out on terrain, but I have been buying a lot of trees for the last few years. As Murphy pointed out, you need a lot of trees for the ACW (and the F&IW).

Time and Space and Money. Please select any TWO of them.

Now that I am retired I have Time and Space. I am using them both. Right now I am working on terrain, getting some buildings together.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek

Over the years I have spent far more on figures and vehicles than terrain, as terrain effectively lasts forever. I'm still using stuff I made or bought in the 1970s. Some items (like three full boxes of Hexon, ahem) are a bit pricey, but the annualised cost is very low. The real terrain cost is storage space.

If you are starting out, the relative terrain costs compared to figures are going to be higher.

Interesing that trees are a key expence, admittedas it's not ly ACW is a high user for such things. We got lucky (relatively) getting hold of some (lots) of"bottle brush" type trees relatively cheap. But still a serious issue.
Space is also a serious issue.

Now I am not sugessting ourfold flat stuff It and was only ever designed for GZG "25"mm and not to a Warpainter standard. However an artist working with card (thicker than 300 gsm which we used), could do a bigger artistic version of ou type of fold flat stuff. Hinges wouls be an issue but there are Model aircraft strip hinges that would work, or 3D print the structure using Neodymium magnets to assemble. This is proably not a big faff as it seems. Our stuff.

link

The limk is just for photo's not sales, they are too small for 28 + minis. but show geometries that can be folded flat). They typically takes about 30 sec to assemble so perfecyly acceptable for 28mm as you can't get that many buildings on the table at once. The commpession factor is proably arround 15:1 15 buildings in the space of one reafy assembled.

I'm not going to do such things as it's ouside my area of interest, most 28mm players are War Painters so do not have the same view =on what is required artistically. However but I would be happy to provide thought and ideas on the engineering side.

Martin Rapier – I agree, out hexon is still in almost new state 14 years on and pklayed on literally hundreds of times.

I spend less on terrain, and most of that which I do purchase can be used for multiple periods, e.g. WWII and the modern era for the European theater. Some also for the medieval/renaissance eras, e.g. terrain mat, hills, and trees.

I make some of my terrain and buildings – cardstock primarily for the latter.

I've made some nice, modern, paved, felt roads.

I need to try my hand at making some dirt roads next.

I've bought a large number of snow-covered evergreens after the holidays, on sale, from Walmart. Deep discounts there, e.g. 50%+ for those.

I made an ice-covered stream from textured plexiglass, which turned out great. Painted gray underneath and it looks good.

I need to make some more rivers and streams for warmer periods too.

For 28mm, I have much more invested into minis than terrain – because I collect for multiple 28mm systems/periods.

For 15mm, the terrain investment is closer to the minis investment, as I only collect on system/period in 15mm.

While I have spent quite bit less on terrain then troops, my battlefields have a lot of terrain. I use 6mm armies and ground scale for WW2 and later is 1cm = 100m (less for earlier periods. Buildings are cardstock, inexpensive trees from EBay, etc. photo is a modern game on a 6x6 area

In 28mm, a lot less on terrain, but it's cheaper. It's often scratch-built--trees, hedges, some hills--printed out and glued to foam core or flea market finds touched up. It doesn't care whether it's fought over by medieval, Renaissance, fantasy or horse & musket armies, and it lasts forever. My troops still capture and defend a Marx bridge which must be about 60. The catch is storage space.

This is even more true in 2mm, where almost all the terrain is scratch-built.

In microscale the balance of money shifts nearer to even, with cheap troops fighting over commercial rivers, bridges and buildings. But again, storage space is a problem. In both cases--actually three if you count the 1/72 in the garage--temperate zone terrain takes up more storage volume than any one period's troops. I can only recommend fighting in deserts, or at any event fighting in the same climate and scale regardless of period.

Of course, if you really want to cut down on terrain expense, fight multiple periods in the desert. Say 28mm WWII skirmish, WWI Arab Revolt and French Foreign Legion "Beau Geste" style? Or microscale WWII Western Desert, WWI Syria/Palestine and as many Arab-Israeli wars as you please?