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"In Deo Veritas Inquiry" Topic


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Comments or corrections?

mghFond07 Oct 2022 9:33 a.m. PST

Well I bought the rulebook In Deo Veritas for battles in the Thirty Years War. I want to play my first battle for the local group Saturday and picked Fleurus as it is a small one. Rules seem understandable enough – will know better once I've done an actual game of course.

However – in the opening OOB info on Fleurus the book states the Protestants have 17 brigades not counting artillery and the Spanish have 14 brigades. Then the next page details the Spanish army – their starting set up etc. and -

there are only 11 brigades not 14. That is quite a discrepancy so which is right?

Anybody play this one? I'm worried missing 3 of 14 brigades might make a big difference in game balance.

Khalid bin Walid07 Oct 2022 1:01 p.m. PST

I think there may be an errata that fixes this. Check the publisher's website

We had some problems with the rules.

Infantry can charge cavalry. Cavalry can't evade. We thought this incompatible with our understanding of warfare pf the period.

dave8365 Supporting Member of TMP07 Oct 2022 1:22 p.m. PST

I have them; they seemed interesting, but after a trial solo game (I remember an issue regarding pursuit) I ultimately decided to stick with a Twilight of Divine Right and For King & Parliament for 17th century games.

mghFond07 Oct 2022 2:08 p.m. PST

Thanks Khalid, I did check the website, no errata.
Simple fix, I'm going to let the cavalry evade then, thanks for the warning.

Dave, I got both Twilight and FKP and enjoy them both but I want to give this one a try. Our local group prefers this level of game and I want to see for myself how it works.

Prince Alberts Revenge07 Oct 2022 7:46 p.m. PST

I built my armies around this scenario and never noticed the discrepancy in the numbers. My Imperial army is comprised of: 4 early tercio units, 6 cavalry brigades, 2 detachments of shot, an artillery battery, 3 wing commanders and an army commander.

I believe one can get clarification of rules from the author on the Helion FB page.

mghFond08 Oct 2022 5:49 a.m. PST

Yep, Prince Albert, that's my Imperial army for tonights game. I guess I will go with that then when our group tries the game out.

Prince Alberts Revenge08 Oct 2022 7:37 a.m. PST

that's my Imperial army for tonights game. I guess I will go with that then when our group tries the game out.

mghFond: please let us know how the game plays out, I'm incredibly interested. I bought the rules, liked the concepts (especially the nature of the tercios – very tough but once they start losing morale they are hard to rally) and collected, based and painted up armies specifically for their Fleurus scenario but have never actually played it yet!

mghFond08 Oct 2022 1:06 p.m. PST

OK, definitely I will let you know!

mghFond08 Oct 2022 8:32 p.m. PST

Well, we played the game tonight. Two players per side, none of them or obviously myself as ref having ever played this rules set.

Mixed feelings. Some of it we really liked but because it is so basic/simple, a lot came up during the game where we had no answer for in the book. We were confused and on our own. We're all veteran wargamers though so he discussed (OK, argued a lot) and came up with solutions but still not sure if they were right or not.

Basic combat was good but having to go thru big lists of modifiers for Fatigue and army morale was too much. Oh yes, and also same for disorder, a whole page of modifiers.

Im going to try it again soon while it's fresh in my mind and make some modifications too.

So long story short, the jury is still out.

Oh yeah almost forgot: the Protestants broke the Hapsburgs army and secured the win Turn 8. The game lasts 12 turns.

Prince Alberts Revenge09 Oct 2022 4:42 p.m. PST

mghFond, thanks so much for the thoughts on the game. How many hours did the game take? Interesting opinions and assessments and helps me prepare for tackling the rules myself.

I was looking for big base (one unit is one base) renaissance rules and I liked some of the concepts in IDV and I prefer "simple" quick play approach. I have Liber Militum Tercios and For King and Parliament. I guess at some point I will just have to give them all a go and decide.

Eumelus Supporting Member of TMP09 Oct 2022 6:37 p.m. PST

You might also want to try these rules "Tilly's Very Bad Day", which are
(1) one base per unit;
(2) well written and complete in themselves; and
(3) free to download.

link

Truth in advertising: I haven't played them myself, but downloaded them about the same time as I purchased IDV, which I found had so many gaps and ambiguities as to not be worth the bother. I don't think Helion did IDV's author any favor by rushing into print what is pretty obviously simply his notes for running games. An independent playtesting group was sorely needed for this project.

And having feedback for any rules solely on Facebook is completely insufficient, given how many of us react to FB.

Prince Alberts Revenge09 Oct 2022 7:05 p.m. PST

And having feedback for any rules solely on Facebook is completely insufficient, given how many of us react to FB.

Agree completely. I don't have FB myself. I had seen TVBD on the excellent Steve's Balagan site but never downloaded them.I will have to check them out, thanks for the link.

dave8365 Supporting Member of TMP09 Oct 2022 8:20 p.m. PST

I was looking for big base (one unit is one base) renaissance rules and I liked some of the concepts in IDV and I prefer "simple" quick play approach. I have Liber Militum Tercios and For King and Parliament. I guess at some point I will just have to give them all a go and decide.

Give Twilight of Divine Right a try as well. Stylized mechanics (everything is boiled down to morale tests) but it yields a good game.

Dave

mghFond10 Oct 2022 6:52 a.m. PST

My brigades are all on one base, no matter which rules set I settle on eventually, I will not be rebasing.

Prince Albert, our game took about 3 1/2 hours but we were all new and had to discuss a lot when the rules were not clear or we had to make game decisions on what to do then.

I have played Twilight of the Sun King and enjoy that system so just this weekend I ordered Twilight of Divine Right. The way combat is handle as morale tests is clever.

This Wednesday I am replaying Fleurus with a different group of gamers just to see how it goes this time. Plus I know ahead of time what issues we ran into Sat nite and can avoid those.

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