"Black Seas or Trafalgar" Topic

Just dipping our toes in a small way, squadron a side, 1.1200 Langton ships. We have tried Black seas, nothing against it but is Trafalgar any better. We dont want to fight major actions just 4-8 ships a side. Help appreciated

I know nothing about it – and not found a review – but 'Kiss Me Hardy' might be worth looking into. Maybe someone will do a decent review of how it works some time.

Black Seas is based largely on Trafalgar but with many of the dubious gamey bits removed.

Trafalgar? Looks good but avoid.

Neither : 'Kiss Me Hardy' or 'War at Sail' The former can be had as a PDF from Two Fat Lardies and the latter from Wargames Vault. Both for less $$ than the two in the OP.

David Manley made some additions to Trafalgar which improved the game.

Thanks for your comments guys, had looked at kiss me hardy, but not sailey enough, I want to worry about the sails and how to tack out of trouble. If Trafalgar is basically Black seas light then probably makes sense to stick with them, until something better comes along. I will of course keep looking, thats the wargamers way.

"Post Captain" is designed for small fleet actions in 1:1200 scale and realistically simulates age of sail warfare. I use it for War of 1812 lake and sea actions. However, not everyone appreciates the detail including individual ship logs, preferring simplistic fast play rules instead.

An interesting suggestion that Kiss Me Hardy isn't "saily" enough, as it's the only age of sail game that even addresses different levels of sailing ability between crews while still being playable. In most other games crew quality only affects shooting and morale.

Heart of Oak does a good job of capturing the feel of sailing. It is written movement so that may or may not be to your taste.

Chris

Post captain is my go to with kiss me hardy a good second choice if you want something simpler. That said post captain strains with more than 5 ships a side unless you have multiple players. If you want more detail than KMH but still want to use up to 10 ships a side post captain should fit the bill.

Joe

ok Joe will have a looksie at Post captain sound interesting. Mserafin just listening to TFL blurb that says themselves, not designed for small actions, more big fleets, thats why I discounted them, and Black seas does have different sailing abilities, thats why my Spanish are on their back foot from the start. Heart of oak, chap has got them at the club, so we will have a trial with them sometime.

"t's the only age of sail game that even addresses different levels of sailing ability between crews" there are others that do that as well

I can't link to it now but if you go to my blog platoonforward.blogspot.com and go to July 13 post there is a report of a post captain game I ran solitaire. Any questions ask away though I am not affiliated with the rules at all.
Good luck. It is a great period to game.

Joe

Ps. David you are quite right!

"An interesting suggestion that Kiss Me Hardy isn't "saily" enough, as it's the only age of sail game that even addresses different levels of sailing ability between crews while still being playable"
Black Seas and Post Captain both have different levels of sailing ability. Post Captain is very realistic, but I would hesitate to have more than one ship per player. On the other hand, for duels between frigates or brigs there is nothing better. Kiss me Hardy is good, but mainly for action with ships of the line. Black Seas is fun, not terribly realistic, but a good game

late to the party, but let me sail on in…

Here is an overview/ review of Kiss me hardy I wrote a long time ago…
link
-take aways: KMH can be fun is REALLY badly written, vague and full of typos and inconsistent.

Here is an overview of Post Captain that i wrote awhile ago..
link
-take aways: PC is great except for the crew management and the boarding actions. They get really fiddley and it's too much math. PC is a lot of book keeping that's not overly complex and with practice one could run many ships.

for extra credit, here's how I modified the PC crew management bc I hate fractions…
link

and lastly, here is a overview / review of a rule set that kinda sits in the middle: blood, bilge, and iron balls.
link

and all of this has reminded me that I haven't touched my ships in about 2 years. I should remedy that.

-Stew

Stew,
Great reports. A couple of thought.
I too have rounded the crew factors for post captain. Ships were rarely at full complement. It is slower but I have played comfortably 5 ships a side. I agree it is a great game.
You state when playing with hexes you only have 5 directions. Don't forget about the spines! That doubles your freedom of movement and you still don't have to measure. I have converted post captain to hexes.
Blood bilge and iron balls is a terrible game IMO. You were much kinder than I. I did think the damage stars and repairs were innovative. It would take a lot of work to bring it up to speed.
Cheers

Joe