"What rules are suitable for 2-3mm 1:1 scale" Topic

Hi,
I bought the forward March studios 3d printing model set a while back and now finally figuring out the process of getti g them created, and was wondering now what rules actually could cater for a 1:1 2mm scale? There is a vast array of options in the collection that can allow for this. A battalion in line formation at 1:1 has quite a wide front from what I have seen

Yes, battalion frontages should be around 25cm. First questions are what size table you have available and what sort of actions you have in mind.

Are you planning on individual casualty removal?

Are you planning on individual casualty removal?

Wow, that would make for a fiddly game, even for a single battalion.

As ever, if you are using elements rather than individual figures, most sets will cope although you probably want something lower level. eg for Shako you could just put 200 figures on each of the three bases comprising a battalion, or for WRG you could use one 50 figure block to represent each figure (typically basing them in groups of 200).

Are you planning on individual casualty removal?

It would take a really long time to adjudicate each shot separately.

How many buckets does it take to hold 600 dice?

I would start with your 2-3mm figure frontage. It should be approximately one third of your figure height (22" per file divided by an average man height of 5'6" or 66"). So, for example, at a 1:1 representation a typical French six-company battalion would be approximately 160mm for 2mm figures or 240mm for 3mm figures. If you printed your figures in company/platoon sized blocks you would have a manageable base for movement.
Also, if you keep in mind that a three-rank company/platoon would maintain its frontage even to the point of reducing to two ranks, you could argue that the unit would remain effective until its losses reached approximately 35%.
Cavalry simply reduced the number of squadrons to suit the current strength.
Given the above, you might be better reverting to an older ruleset that calculated losses in men not in whole figures.

Thanks for the info, I wouldnt do individual casualty removal as the figures at that scale wouldnt allow for it, they are kind of blocks more or less – its just that that.while 1:1 scale looks to be what forward March studios is probably selling but how it can be played and then yes the table size is an issue.

I am into the smaller scales.because they suit my lack of space but I guess the 1:1 scaling would negate that altogether

Hi, I'm actually doing the same thing with Project Wargaming's 2mm Nap files. I am using Absolute Emperor. I have also looked at 2x2 Napoleonics, Fast Play Grand Armee and Volley and Bayonet. I want to do battles. Each infantry base will 100 to 150 foot figs on it. I'm using 80mm x 40mm stands. Piqued has Chef de Battalion rules which have you controlling a 1 to 1 battalion IIRC.

Thanks

John

John, wow the Project Wargaminng models are excellent – better than the Forward March studios ones, – though Forward March also has a ton of excellent european scenery pieces specifically suited to 1813 so i will get thous, but as for the models i think i will follow your lead and get Project Wargaminngs stuff

Yes, 1:1, even in 2mm, means either a fairly small battle or a very large table.

I'd suggest working the problem from the other end--and I know a lot of you have heard the rant before. Start with what size table you can count on having available, then decide what size battle you want to recreate. That gives you a ground scale and, if you think about it for a bit, what size units you're going to maneuver. At that stage, we can discuss rules which match those requirements.

I have printed up several 100 of the PW units now. Ordered my 80x40mm bases from Phalanx Consortium and printed off order counters (that also show the Elan along with casualties) for Absolute Emperor. I watched a load of YouTube and read articles on line about 2mm Naps. Painting, gaming and basing this weekend in between printing. I did not like the look of 40x40mm bases with a few strips of 2mm figs. I want a grand impression. Project Wargaming also did several basing and painting videos. His basing scheme caught my interest and sold me.

After this I'll be painting up my 2mm for strength and Honour Ancient rules. The more TFL video's I watch about them the more I like them. I'll try them out with my masses of painted 6mm Ancients. Those run about 20-30 figs per stand. Not quite as impressive but should give a me a feel for the rules. I was not really interested in 2-3 mm until I played in a WWII game on a huge table with Corps and divisions. Figs were from Irregular. The figs were nothing spectacular. But the scope of the game was! Pico Armor coming on the scene had me buying up a bunch of Cold War and WWII armies in 3mm. So, I had no issues doing 2mm. Plus PW's files are quite nice.

EDIT: Nice thing is I can use my 2mm Naps for AE, VnB, Fast Play Grande Armee or BBB. I love it!

Thanks

John

great stuff – i am trying to do an order now for getting those PW minis printed. the one thing i noticed is that they dont have 2mm limbered arty, but i guess that is not too much of an issue. i suppose the setup you have done wouldnt work so well with rules like Napoleon's Battles or General de Brigade or Lasalle though would they?

I am also making my own paper 3mm scale napoleonics so i am kind of dividing my time between that and now these 3d printed 2mm. I have devoted too much time though to the paper project to give it up and nor do i want to

i think i am still looking to be able to play some battalion tactical level rules at the 3mm scale so with my paper models i have made alot of size variations to be able to do this – a fiddly solo pursuit

I am into the smaller scales.because they suit my lack of space but I guess the 1:1 scaling would negate that altogether

Yes it would negate any benefit. If you lack space I have found the smallest, practical, element (base) size is 3cm square, or 1 inch square. I currently place 12 x 6mm figures on such a base, so I expect you could put 48 x 3mm figures on such a base to represent a unit. However even with such small base sizes you still need a reasonable large playing area, perhaps 3x4 feet, if using most rules.

My gut feel is you should consider a set of rules such as BBNB or perhaps Blutcher. Both would give you an entire battle rather than a skirimish, but I am uncertain how you could achieve a 1:1 scale on a small playing area. Putting 600 3mm figures on a base to represent a battalion would require a reasonable large base, perhaps 6 cm square, or 9 cm square. Even a company sized base would be reasonable large.

BBNB current uses 3mm a lot, you can get more info from the IO:group site – groups.io/g/bloodybigbattles. I suspect you should look for a set of rules which commonly uses 3mm.

i will give up on the idea of 1:1 being playable, perhaps it would just be interesting to create a brigade or regiment to scale but merely for show,

I have Blucher but unfamiliar with BBNB. I have something of a death wish in that what i really want to do is create paper 3mm armies and solitaire play using Legacy of Glory rules.

i have about 3 x 5 foot space. I expect Leipzig would be too big and too much to ever do, but something like Liebertwolkwitz, and hopefully Friedland i could manage – i mean one will find a way, and in that i have kind of strayed off course from the initial topic which i think still stands on itself as something interesting – playing 1:1 scale grand battles, which i assume some folks have actually pulled off

Leipzig is not a small battle, but is a battle i have recreated several times. The smallest Leipzig playing area I have every used is 4 x 3 foot. I created a video on the game a while back, which can be viewed here: youtu.be/eKT0QwRkROY

I have since moved to a 4 x 8 foot playing area and changed the scale and it seems to work better.

The rules I use is a figure game version of a board game, SPI napoleon at war, which works surprisingly well. The only issue I found with historical games is you quickly work out optimal tactics and the game gets a bit boring, but you can get at least a half dozen games from it. Leipzig is good because the SPI scenario has several scenarios, the 1st day, 3rd day and the entire battle.

I have no idea how you may wish to base your 3mm, but if you used 3cm square (or 1 inch square) bases, which would also work with BBNB, AOE and a few other rules, you could reproduce the battle with 100 bases. That base size should also work with Blucher, if you use movement trays. Unfortunately at that scale artillery is built into the infantry, which I do not like. If you double the playing area to 4 x 8 foot and change the troop scale you end up with about 200-250 bases and you can include artillery.

If you use BBNB the playing area would be larger, so I would only reproduce the French attack, or the Prussian/Russian attack. AOE requires a very large playing area. The AOE site can be found here: groups.io/g/ageofeagles

I am uncertain about Blucher as its not really a set of rules designed to reproduce a historical battle. However i expect its possible, it just i am uncertain how large the playing needs to be.

The SPI boardgame can be found here:
PDF link

The figure game version of the rules can be found here: groups.io/g/Kriegsspiel – just go to files and look for napoleon at war.

thanks PFmodel – that Kriegspiel group looks interesting and some of the rules there i have never heard of before – such as the Napoleon at war and Tallion, Revolution and Napoleonische Kriegsfuehrung (is this last one in German? I hope so as I have been wanting some german language rules)

I applied to join the group but no response, hopefully something will happen

how i base things i am still unsure of, and i am making so many variations that i could do anything from 10mm to 40mm really or highe even

Here is a battalion in 6mm. Frontage is 19" 288 figures. The files are probably too far apart so this would be an accurate frontage for perhaps 50% more troops.

Don't get too excited, some of those rules are club rules with all the issues of club rules. All rules are in English. I use to originally do my videos in German, but no-one watched them, so everything is in English now. I expect the same would apply to rules.

I do not own 3mm figures so have not thought out basing for that scale. I am still struggling with 6mm, I would suggest you do as much research as you can as rebasing can be rather painful. Find other players who use 3mm, their solution may not be correct but at least you can heard their reasons which will help in your research.

okay so roughly round 9 1/2 inches for 3mm then – hmm thats a bit bigger than what my figures will come to – i was doing infantry mostly in blocks of 12 files with 3 ranks. one can always put them together of course to double the size of each, but then again i am doing sizes that would accomodate some various rules

@John Leahy well i tried to get those PW 2mm figures printed through a service using resin but no can do – they are too small it seems.
So i am guessing one would need to use some pricey premium service to get them printed, which negats the value of 3d printing somewhat

@GeorgBuchner I thought I had posted about ESR yesterday but I must not have done it so here goes. Et Sans Resultant (ESR) would work well with the 2-3mm scale if you want operational level scale. Each base is a battalion and those are grouped into divisional level formations. Website here:

thewargamingcompany.com

If you want a more tactical scale Valmy to Waterloo works well with smaller scales. If you are still interested I have the extra books for VtW you were looking for.

thansk dErUYTER – yes ESR may be an excellent way to go, i got their books this year though havent done anything with them yet

regarding VtW – i fortunately have gotten in contact with someone locally who can sell me their copy for a pittance which is good, but if for some reason that doesnt happen then i would be happy to speak with you more to acquire those rule components