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"Russian border towns afraid" Topic

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Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian15 Sep 2022 11:23 p.m. PST

Russians living in areas near the Ukrainian border are voicing growing concern as Kyiv's counteroffensive around the northeastern city of Kharkiv has brought Ukrainian forces to Russia's doorstep, according to posts on local social media groups…

Moscow Times: link

Choctaw16 Sep 2022 6:29 a.m. PST

I hope Ukraine turns them into a wasteland.

soledad16 Sep 2022 6:47 a.m. PST

Several more mass graves have been found around Izium. Mostly civilians dead. Many with their hands tied behind their backs. Murdered either by hanging or being dragged behind vehicles. I think russians in the border area ought to be a bit scared.

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP16 Sep 2022 7:25 a.m. PST

If I was them, I'd be concerned as well.

OSCS7416 Sep 2022 7:56 a.m. PST

If I lived near an ammo depot or barracks I would take a vacation to see the gulags in Siberia.

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP16 Sep 2022 8:49 a.m. PST

They should be afraid … very afraid … Their leadership has opened a can of snakes, very deadly snakes, it appears. May be time for new leadership ?

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian16 Sep 2022 9:06 a.m. PST

Maybe the Ukrainians should take a slice of Russia, trade it for the Donbas and Crimea?

Andrew Walters16 Sep 2022 10:19 a.m. PST

On the one hand that seems like a good way to get those provinces back and end the war. If they're lucky they may even get reparations for all the people murdered and all the infrastructure destroyed for no military purpose.

On the other hand, was has been conducted very brutally in these places for centuries, and it might be difficult to control occupation forces. The Ukrainians look like good guys so far, it's important to keep it that way. They have every reason to want revenge, and a few might take an opportunity.

Gripping hand: Ukrainian forces push into Russia in any appreciable way and Putin might do something crazy. We all want to avoid that.

I hope Ukraine will get all their territory back, including Crimea, and reparations that are due. With Russia's security council veto I don't know how they get that without force.

Meanwhile, if the war goes on long enough that everyone has to learn how to survive without Russian energy, why should they go back to Russian energy after the war? Especially if it doesn't end cleanly and justly. Russia may find themselves impoverished for another generation.

This whole thing is appalling.

dapeters16 Sep 2022 11:46 a.m. PST

"I hope Ukraine turns them into a wasteland."

Let's hope not! The Ukrainians have pretty much nothing but sympathy from much of the world, no reason to mess it up at this point.

ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa16 Sep 2022 2:59 p.m. PST

The Ukrainians have been pretty scrupulous about the extent to which they've taken the war inside sovereign Russian territory. Clearly their backers are also a little squeamish about the issue. Trying not to make Putin's 'the West is coming to get you' narrative a self-fulfilling prophecy was always going to be tricky. Also, worth noting that Ukraine is going to share a border with Russia even when this over. Not to mention the web of personal level ties and relationships between the two countries. I'm sure the Ukrainian political leadership are smart enough to know that long term its going to a lot easier for whatever follows Putin's government to bury this episode away from the monster of Russian exceptionalism and grievance if they haven't turned Russian border towns into parking lots. Though this rather assumes that whoever follows Putin doesn't continue to using the same playbook and forge some kind of 'look how nasty the West is too us' mythos out of it …

I suppose there may also be some advantage to having lots of Russian citizens close to the Ukraine border so they can see what happens when the post-war reconstruction aid and investment roles in while they continue to live in some kind of Soviet era economic theme park with third world levels of wealth disparity. Assuming Putin doesn't throw all the Oligarchs out of upper floor windows.

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP16 Sep 2022 3:54 p.m. PST

From what I understand. Ukraine wants it's land back from Russia. E.g. the Donbas & Crimea. If they are going to do that know. After the Russians have been significantly attrited. But attacking Russia proper AFAIK then Putin can say Russia is being attacked and can mobilized Reserves, etc., IIRC.

smithsco16 Sep 2022 7:47 p.m. PST

Ukraine can't cross the border in a big way like is being discussed here. Putin has made red lines and stuck to them. That's what got this war going in the first place. (Not a Putin apologist…he's a scumbag thug…just trying to analyze him rationally). He and Medvedev have said if the territory of Russia is threatened the gloves come off. Kiev gets nuked. It's all but guaranteed if they keep the counter offensive going past the border

Uesugi Kenshin Supporting Member of TMP16 Sep 2022 8:10 p.m. PST

It would make sense for Ukraine to make 20 milr buffer zone into Russia to make sure this never happens again.

witteridderludo16 Sep 2022 11:42 p.m. PST

I would start slowly taking the bordercrossings, the neighboring villages, start to throw out a buffer along the border. Not some major drive on Belgorod, just start nibbling at the border in such a way that Russians will start to ask why do we have troops in Ukraine and let them take over our country? Bring back the troops and defend our own border!

ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa17 Sep 2022 2:59 a.m. PST

Not sure a buffer zone would be any help. It doesn't solve any of Ukraine's immediate strategic problems. A permanent one is just going to feed that Slavic grievance-thing (as if Russian's are unique in being dealt a crappy hand in life?). Though how significant those immediate problems are is debatable since the Russian army is badly messed up, and will remain so for many years, and I suspect real time Western intelligence would give the Ukrainian's plenty of warning of any build up. Also putting boots in Russia might just make general mobilisation politically palatable for Putin. At the moment he seems intent on trying to fight this increasingly hogtied. They are employing the scrapings of the barrel, criminals and the substance dependant and only getting former soldiers back on 3-month contracts, which can only be good for Ukraine.

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP17 Sep 2022 8:55 a.m. PST

No … don't give the Russians any more excuses. The Ukraine should just retake their land, i.e. the Donbas and Crimea. Then if need be, set up a DMZ like in the ROK and Gitmo, between Russia and Ukraine. Even send in UN forces like on Cyprus and some the states of the former Yugoslavia. IRCC, those UN missions are still active. Regardless the point is made …

Bottom line make it as hard as possible for the Russians to invade Ukraine again.

Oberlindes Sol LIC Supporting Member of TMP17 Sep 2022 11:24 a.m. PST

I think I'm with Legion 4 and Andrew Walters on this. Zelensky himself has said that Ukraine only wants what belongs to Ukraine, and not anything they don't need.

ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa wrote:

I suppose there may also be some advantage to having lots of Russian citizens close to the Ukraine border so they can see what happens when the post-war reconstruction aid and investment roles in while they continue to live in some kind of Soviet era economic theme park with third world levels of wealth disparity.

I believe that was actually the basis for the war. Putin, like premiers and czars before him, could not abide a thriving free state on the border, especially one with a Slavic population, because it would lead to Russians asking why they can't have that, too.

So ultimately the way to peace and security for Ukraine, Poland, and other border states is for Russia to become a free and prosperous state itself.

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP17 Sep 2022 1:04 p.m. PST

There is a reason why many former Warsaw Pact plus Sweden and Finland wanted to join NATO. Only one reason – Russia and Putin. No one … I mean no one wants to be under Russia's boot again.

Thresher0117 Sep 2022 2:11 p.m. PST

I doubt they have to worry, which is a shame, but probably a reality.

I suspect Vladimir has a lot more to worry about than the border people and towns, since rumors are if his forces continue to lose in Ukraine and embarass the country bad things might happen to him, and/or he will be significantly weakened as a leader.

Actually, I'm quite skeptical about that, but we may actually get to see how this plays out.

I do hope the Ukrainians push to take back Crimea and succeed.

Oberlindes Sol LIC Supporting Member of TMP18 Sep 2022 6:05 p.m. PST

bad things might happen to him

Karma is real.

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP19 Sep 2022 8:47 a.m. PST

Yeah, Karma is a BBleeped textH !!!!

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