"Best Fire Team / Squad Level WWII Rules?" Topic

I know this IS a loaded question, with no doubt, many differing opinions, but I'd like to know what rules out there are set up for fire team, and/or squad level combat and resolution, e.g. one troop stand = a fire team or squad, and you roll one or more dice to determine casualties?

Not sure I want to get down into the weeds of removing individual casualty figs, but it would be nice if the firepower, strength, and morale ratings degrade as the units take casualties (paper record keeping, or some other method of keeping track of that would be useful).

Ideally, it'd be nice to differentiate between nationalities, weapons in use, number of men in a squad or fire team, etc.

The ability to mix in tanks and other vehicles, etc. with the rules would be a bonus.

Thoughts?

Off the top of my head, none. I really can't think of rules that have a fireteam base and then records individual casualties. How big a game do you expect to play?

The Traveller supplement "Striker" used team bases and individual casualty recording, as dud Andy Callans "Bocage Battle" from the late 80s.

I usually play modern sets like IABSM with based units and track losses, just because my guys are on bases.

How about the original Squad Leader rules (not the Advanced Squad Leader rules)?

Up and running in 20 minutes, great fun, best set of infantry rules I've ever used 😀👍

The answer is obvious:-

link

BUT I AM EXTREEMLY BIASED I an one of the authors. ;-)

Now more practicaly.

It is fireteam based and it uses a counter and dry wipe mactker to track the degradation of units under fire.

You can change the size of a team but most of the time they are similar anyway.

We do not track individuals in a team.

The system is ideal for 1/144 and works at 1/72 scale. However its a simple Simulatuion, so at 1/72 unless you have a 8 ft by 6tft board vehicals, which it handles well, will be too close to the enemy for confort.

It's a real world groundscale so Arillery except in very unusual situations will not be on the table.

There is no points system, as they don't work unless you have a sterile terrain system, which we don't. Uou need scenarios as obviously you cant have a real world pick iup game. We use real maps to get an idea of what the real world is like, or look out the window (looking out the window is considered herasy by some as it identifies problems with some games) ;-).

IT USES diffrent Mechanisms and worse for some, it needs you to turn turrets like you did as a kid. However, apparently this makes it too complicated for some adults.

It is undoubtedly for those interested in the period and the tactics, thought and some limited knowledge of real world tactics is required as is concentration. Like chess it is both simple and complex. You WILL NOT get the best out of it if you only play a game every 2 months or so, it for folk who are inrterested in the period.

Download the free stuff if you even consider us before buying, we sell for fun and would not want to waste your money as it is by no means a standard game of line up the troops and roll dice.

I A'int Been Shot Mum and Fireball Forward are kind of in this ballpark. Crossfire at a pinch

It might be worth looking at Nuts! by TwoHourWargames. They seem to check many of the boxes you are looking for.

Another option is the old AH game Tobruk. Counters represented squads and there was a OB sheet that allowed you to mark off squad members as they took casualties. The infantry rules were easier than the AFV part of the game.

I also second the original Squad Leader game.

If you want squad degradation detailing, the following probably won't satisfy that. Combat Command may come close, but I can't remember now the system's fire mechanics with much recall.

Armour & Infantry 1925-1950 (WRG)

Combat Command (Wargame Vault)

A Fistful of Tows 3 (Wargames Vault)

Fields of Honor (Wargame Vault)

These are all combined-arms rule sets, not just infantry action systems.

Btw, the local group here is breaking out a game of WRG in a couple weeks for the Western Desert circa OP Crusader – another Old Skool dive "back to the future" (WRG wasn't ever bested for what it could do for company-to-battalion level games, and get a game completed in 6hrs. or less).

I've made my own Coy.-Bn. level mod to Bolt Action that uses that system's Pin mechanic as a suppression result that leads to squad stand elimination at certain thresholds (personnel elements are squads, smaller teams….HQs, FOs, outposting LMGs, etc., or individual hvy. wpns.).

You'll see "Blitz Action" in play here in my recent AAR thread -

TMP link

(squad infantry stands and AT Guns pictured in the thread showing the accumulation of markers that accrue towards element elimination, and degrade hit results)

Link to Squad Leader rules:
link

Play aid including the Combat Results table:
link

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Another vote for Squad Leader.

I have half a mind to tinker with it and create a quicker game for miniature use. I have a big pile of WW2 games I have read through but have only played half of them. I really want to find an "ultimate set" to play forever. But if I had to pick today I'd say Squad Leader.

Squad Leader has plenty of mechanisms to make different things act on the board the way they would in life. It doesn't have a lot of abstraction or gamey things. It moves pretty quick once you get the hang of it. We all love a few unusual units in our games (trucks or mortars or whatnot) and I always seem to have to double check a rule on those. But on the whole you can just play.

Only marines had fire teams.
I adapted stargrunt for ww2.
I like it obviously, but ymmv.
This does have individual figure removal and that degrades squad firepower.

How about the original Squad Leader rules (not the Advanced Squad Leader rules)?

John Hill actually wrote a set of miniature rules based upon his design of "Squad Leader" back in the late 70's. They were called "Fire Team", and were being developed to be marketed with Heritage Models 15mm "Panzertroops" line.

I was part of a group doing play testing for him when he had a falling out with Heritage (ie. Duke Seifried) at around the time he moved from Indiana to Northern Virginia.

The whole project got shelved, though John asked us to continue fleshing out aspects not completed, but it was clear he lost interest.

Rules were never commercially published. I'm fortunate I still have his unpublished manuscript.

I think the fall out with Heritage and the previous break up he had with Avalon Hill on the Squad Leader franchise, combined with him taking a new job put him off trying to resurrect the project.

For what it's worth, it was looking like a pretty good game that may have had the same lasting impact as his "Johnny Reb" game has had.

Kim

Another vote for NUTS

Played the original Squad Leader a few weeks ago. Forgot how much fun it was. Simple rules by today's standards.

Angry about it because I gave away my rule set a long time ago. Would love to play it again as a board game without miniatures.

Easy Eights Battleground

Thank you for all the replies and info.

The rules don't have to necessarily include strength reductions at the man level, but ideally there should be some level of at least abstract strength reductions (firepower, defense, and morale) as units take hits.

Ideally, combat resolution will be with a single or group die roll, even if that includes multiple dice (see below).

I've even considered making my own, with multiple D20s for rolling hits, and one die per man (rifle), and multiple dice for each machine gunner, as appropriate.

I'd like to see some differentiation between bolt action rifles and semi-auto rifles (one die per man), SMGs, assault rifles, and machine guns in terms of the number of dice (multiple dice for MGs and SMGs/Auto Rifles), and "to-hit" numbers on the dice for the various weapons, range bands, etc.

tresher, we use D20 that gives both fatigue an suppression results. Makes play fast so you can concentrate on moving and tactics. Anti tank uses 2 rolls t to hiy amd 1 for prnrtration again fast play.

Bolt action rifles need more mrn to be effective agin a simpole and fast solution you may want to consider.

Thresher 01……….given that your request says ………….firepower, strength, and morale ratings degrade as the units take casualties

then I would recommend I Ain't Been Shot, Mum.
base unit is the 8-man squad. At full strength it has three actions (3 Dice) to use for any combination of movement or fire. Stay still and fire with all 3 dice or move with 1 dice and then fire with 2……….
but as game goes on, that 8 man squad might get reduce to only 5 men…now it only has 2 Dice for Actions…so both firepower and morale is reduced because once it gets down to 3 or 4 men (out of original 8) it will have to retreat….

Force on force easy enough to convert to WW II. There are even some unofficial rules to do so. Also solitaire friendly.
Cheers.

Joe

Yet another vote for Nuts! I got it last month. Simple rules only a few tables plays quick the action is swift and violent. I have my table set up 3x3 and it works really well with small unit action. I even got a couple of tanks on the board. I think after I played a few times I only have to refer to like maybe one or two tables tops the other stuff is easy to memorize

Look into Battlegroup, lots of ex-FOW players have moved onto it and no need to rebase your figures, just need to figure out how to note casualties per base, either with a die or casualty caps. the ability to attached supports to the platoon also. Very active Facebook group asking a question, you get very quick responses from the well-seasoned gamers and the Authors are on the site also. Almost 6,000 active gamers attached to the site.0 You can start out with just squads and move up to platoon level once you get a feel for the rules. Some play company level and some even play at the Battalion level with multiple players. Rules based for 20mm or 15mm figures but there are guys using them with 28mm, 10mm, and 6mm figures. Theater books have scenarios included and they give you the weapons that were available in those theaters of the conflict. Not a tournament set of rules and plenty of flexibility.

This video lists a number of squad scale rules, where each base represents a squad. Its not extensive but may be a good starting point.
youtu.be/K8puyPOefo0
As for which is the best, this is dependent on personal preferences. I like Schwere Kompanie and Mein Panzer, mainly because they are reasonably simple rules.

A number of rules are free, such as Battlegroup by Ian S Clarke and MICRO SQUAD – THE GAME, WWII. Some of the older commercial rules can also be downloaded from the internet, such as WAR GAME RULES 1925-1950, and most of there subsequent versions. You can even download firefly and challenger, but they are rather complex rules.