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"What I want for 15mm!" Topic

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Albus Malum11 Aug 2022 5:40 p.m. PST

What I want is the 15mm manufacturers to get together and create a ruleset based on all the participating companies rules. 15mm doesnt have a giant in the room to compete against in the 15mm market> What the 15mm mini companies need to realize is the the other 15mm companies are not their monetary competitors, but that they are are primarily competing against all the other scales. They want to take sales from the 28mm companies, and to a small extent from the 10 or 6mm fanatasy companies. They want to promote 15mm above their own particular brand, because if they can successfully get even 10 or 20% of the 28mm WHFB people to convert to 15mm then they all will be wildly successful, All of them, not just one or two of them. 15mm has a lot going for it over 28mm for a WHFB type game. ( so does 1/72 sometimes refered to as 20mm). While I Dont paint 10mm ( the default scale of Warmaster, 15mm I would assume paints up just about as fast, its big enought to see, ( 1/72 is slightly better to see) and it doesnt take much table space, is easy to store, and is still relatively inexpensive. THere is a lot of variety of miniatures available, and it is 3d printable ( with the right models) as well.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP11 Aug 2022 5:59 p.m. PST

"What I want is the 15mm manufacturers to get together and create a ruleset based on all the participating companies rules."

That's quite a wish, there, Albus. Why don't you start with easy stuff like an end to global warming and world peace? Then you could try for an end to scale creep, and then this.

OR you could try basing your castings in a way satisfactory to you which lets you play one or more of your favorite sets, and then only buy sets compatible with your basing.

People who sell things to you are not necessarily your friends. Giant combinations of companies trying to secure a captive market aren't anyone's friends.

Archon6411 Aug 2022 8:30 p.m. PST

I play ADLG in 15mm. The basing covers any manufacturer's figures including "18mm". Since "fantasy" is 99% "ancients" these rules might work for you.

HMS Exeter11 Aug 2022 9:10 p.m. PST

If you put all the 15mm fantasy manufacturers into a room together they wouldn't be able to agree that water was wet.

Any effort to generate a unified rules system would inevitably degenerate into a "well, let's start with my rules and then figure out how we'll have the rest of you pay to produce a glossified hardcover edition for me,…I mean the hobby."

This is not to say a broadly accepted fantasy rules set catered to 15mm wouldn't be an awesome development. It most certainly would.

15mm fantasy has long been the red headed step child of miniatures gaming. Years ago it suffered from scale issues. The Ral Partha figures were dwarfed by Demonworld and Black Raven. The British figures were cartoonish. 15mm fantasy was all too often overpriced, as compared to their historical cousins. The Reaper Shadow Corps figs were cast in an alloy so soft they were borderline unusable.

Today 15mm fantasy is in a near golden age. Black Raven has been joined by Battle Valor and Copplestone. Alternative Armies, Grenadier (Mirliton), Irregular and Demonworld can still be gotten from Europe. At last check even the clunky but evocative Jacobite line was back up. Lone Gunman, Rebel, Khurasan (sorry Bill) and Splintered Light are all still in the mix.

And I'm sure I'm forgetting some contenders.

I'd start another thread requesting input on people's preferred fantasy rules, esp as could be used with 15mm. Acquire some of the front runners. Pick and choose what you feel are the best bits and house rules your brains out.

Re a unified effort among the makers. Not a chance.

cfielitz12 Aug 2022 9:38 a.m. PST

Maybe I don't get the question, but I am from a time where rules were not coupled to any particular miniature company, and you used whatever figures you want. I've used Warmaster for my 15mm fantasy figures of varying manufacturers. I don't see the need for a single, unifying set of rules.

arthur181512 Aug 2022 9:44 a.m. PST

Like cfielitz, I don't see any for 'one set to rule them all'.
Nor does one need rules written specifically for 15mm figures: one simply places more 15mm figures on given base sizes and/or reduces movement distances and shooting ranges of rules intended for 25mm figures, if desired. Or, increase the base sizes, move distances and ranges of rules written for 2mm or 6mm figures.

Albus Malum12 Aug 2022 9:10 p.m. PST

So here it the deal, its about promoting 15mm over 28mm for fantasy wargaming, Games Workshop is falling out of favor, and there is chaos in the fantasy rules department as people are trying to settle on a fanstasy ruleset. Oathmark, Mantic, Onepagerule, plus a plethora of other options, including a comeback in interest in Warmaster with the new offerings in 3d printable 10mm fantasy armies( which are even nicer if printed at 15mm). (Ya, I know, Ive 3d printed a bunch of 15mm ForestDragon, as well as other miniatures Ive scaled to 15mm, including Custum minis from Heroforge with the idea of using them in wargaming).

There are a lot of advantages to using a slightly smaller scale for fantasy wargaming( well any wargaming), and if the 15mm manufactorers could create a dominant ruleset "geared for 15mm" ( at least thats what they tell people), or if one of the larger company like GW reintroduced say its newest version of fantasy in say 15mm so all the 28mm people would be told to buy new minies to play fantasy with ( not holding my breath on this one), then the rew interest in 15mm could put them into a lot of sales.

There are a lot of great 15mm minatures, but no ruleset that says to people to use 15mm miniatures to play this game. a popular "15" mm ruleset would be a benefit to all. None of the 15mm miniature manufacturers by them self have the clout to make it happen, but if they banded together, got a rule set that they all could sell, promote, and sell miniatures for, they all would benefit. ( Note: Battlevalor tryed, but it needed some more work)

As at least one person said, the different companies would not agree, and only want to self promote, then maybe the solution is to hire a "outsider" to create their ruleset, and they all chip in together to finance it. Kind of a joint venture.

There is a lot of ancient/ medieval 15mm that go great with fantasy, Throw a dragon in with your crusader army and its now fantasy. Bring the 15mm ancient/medieval manufactorers in on it also. It all about selling Miniatures, not the rules, but the rules sell the miniatures.

Currently I am using the old Battlesystem rules by TSR. Out of print, easily adaptable to any scale, any miniature. But the point by system was clunky,

Miniature agnostic rule fits 15mm so well. So many great miniatures looking for a ruleset. 15mm is a lot more affordable, still looking for a ruleset.

With the advent of 3d printing, printing terrain, is much cheaper/ time consuming, 15mm still looking for a ruleset.

Augustus13 Aug 2022 1:47 a.m. PST

Trouble is no one is really 15mm anymore.

S'why I went to 10mm.

Frostie13 Aug 2022 3:16 a.m. PST

15mm fantasy battle is oe of my favourite genre. I have quite a large collection of minis of various races of the top of my head, Blood God, Plague God, Chaos, Undead, Orcs, Goblins (thousands of them), Dwarf, Human, Giants (GW Ogres), Beastmen and a few other smaller 'tribes'.

Figure wise I use many ranges in many scales, 28mm figures can be great and then there is 3D printing.

Rules wise, Kings of War is a good easy set to play and adaptable to 15mm and creating your own troop stats. There is also Storm Shadow a free Facebook addition to hail Caesar. The rules needs to be simple for me as I'm not the best at rules reading and I play against my 11 year old son.

Trying to unify this genre will never work and there are many new fantasy rule sets out or coming out each spinning their own angle.

But I agree 15mm fantasy mass battle needs to be push further to the fore in the wargaming world

MajorB13 Aug 2022 3:20 a.m. PST

They want to take sales from the 28mm companies, and to a small extent from the 10 or 6mm fanatasy companies

Do they? Last I heard the companies that make 15mm miniatures were doing fine, thank you.

Deucey Supporting Member of TMP13 Aug 2022 7:25 a.m. PST

Triumph is coming out with fantasy rules.

Hordes of the Things ain't bad.

Personal logo Flashman14 Supporting Member of TMP13 Aug 2022 8:24 a.m. PST

Being geared for 15's is an odd requirement when one can sub centimeters for inches without any ill effects. Though why even bother with that?

I spose one thing in short supply is the glossy eye candy rules with 15mm models featured. The market seems to favor rules being paired with native miniatures where the marketing for either becomes mutually reinforcing (Oathmark, Muskets & Tomahawks, Frostgrave, etc).

So a winning set of rules, paired with a great figure range would be a promising formula.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP13 Aug 2022 6:00 p.m. PST

I do not for the life of me see the point. Albus, if you like 15mm and fantasy, pick the rules you like best, use them for 15mm, and God bless. (I'd say you might want to look at HOTT on 60mm wide bases.) But everyone, everywhere needs to build both sides, so what do you care what other people do--or even how well 15mm manufacturers are doing, as long as they make the figures you need?

What does official endorsement of a set of rules by 15mm manufacturers do for you or for anyone? And if no existing rules set is satisfactory for you, does that say anything about you or the scale? The older I get, the less interested I am in anyone's expensive new rule set with bad ideas on glossy paper with color illustrations, and the $100 USD Second Edition due out next year. Go to Fall In! buy five year old magazines in the flea market and see how many of the hot new rules featured in them have already disappeared.

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