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"Warlord replacement? WHO do you think?" Topic

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The H Man06 Aug 2022 1:52 a.m. PST

Honest question.

Obviously WLs range is dead, short of a miracle they may very well be scrambling for…or not.

So, what company would you like to see pick up the licence and how do you think it should be handled?

Is the franchise toxic?? Most modern who fans, sorry, fan, probably arnt big into wargaming. So, past the boxed game, I see Warlords problem.

I would hope a company could just do the classic era, as it has dedicated and loyal fans that haven't jumped ship.

Mantic springs to mind, and to be honest, I'm surprised Warlord haven't signed it over to Ronnie already.

7tv (crooked dice) have well and truly proved themselves worthy. But may not be able to come up with the cash.

A team up between the likes of riverhorse and, hang on… Didn't they team up with Warlord on T:G? Bit is certainly a good way to spread out the licence fee.

GW could, if they wanted to. It would all be plastic, but at least it may get done. LOTR worked out well.

I guess there are my pics. But there are loads of possibilities. Some startup may do a Kickstarter, then fail to fullfil. BBC may do one itself.

As far as how to do it? A Dalek war, with releases for all the different Daleks should be a sure be, one thing WL failed to do. Do the things that are beyond popular and that will sell in bulk. Boxes of 10 Daleks, each box from a different season. Make a basic sprue for generic Multi part Daleks as the basis for each box to follow, jus add an extra sprue, or metal/resin bits to upgrade it to the pic on the box. Easy. Add 3rd doc unit boxes same deal, Basic frame, then upgrades for heay weapons, casualties landrovers so on. Suddenly you have two instant armies over several boxes based on two sprues that will sell loads. Everyone wants Daleks and they unit figures could be bought for other soldiers, if handled correctly. Perhaps start with the third doc, due to unit. Put out a box of metal/resin for him and companies/TARDIS. Id hit 4th and 1st next for both popularity and origins. Then probably story boxed sets with an extra box or two each.

Actually, this would work best as a partwork magazine, or similar, as each week you kind of have to buy it for the rules, so each figure gets bought in relatively the same quantities (at least that's the eventual plan).

So on…

Londonplod06 Aug 2022 2:34 a.m. PST

Oddly, WG are giving away a free Dr Who miniature this month, a little frog like thing holding a sonic screwdriver!

King Monkey06 Aug 2022 3:05 a.m. PST

If it's still going to be an 'Official' range of miniatures, any new manufacturer is going to suffer the same problems as Warlord.

Permission has to be gained from image rights holders for each actor/ character and everything will have to be approved by the BBC before going into production.

Is there much interest in Doctor Who now anyway? viewing figures for the last couple of series have been poor to say the least.

Personal logo StoneMtnMinis Supporting Member of TMP06 Aug 2022 9:34 a.m. PST

Got woke and went broke.

Mister Tibbles06 Aug 2022 9:49 a.m. PST

+1 StoneMtn.

Black Tree Design are still selling their old DH line FWIW.

The H Man06 Aug 2022 5:42 p.m. PST

Hmm… You could almost think I planned this, but I didn't.

Yes, it appears there is some modern tat whatsit you can buy and get for free with all orders over a certain amount.

What does this mean? Well, as I suggested above, they are scrambling. A new doctor has been announced and they will be going for it.

I suspect the free figure works in two ways, even three. First it tries to hook new tat fans into buying lots of dusty who stock to get one free. Also, being given away for all qualifying orders, they hope it may suck in a few others to helping them clear that valuable warehouse space. Also, of course, with the previous two, it lets them guage the pulse of the range.

But, boy they have let it sit a while. I agree with comments above, the new tat is failing. Hopefully WL realise this and actually produce classic figures in a format to be comprehended. I will not hold my breath.

More likely, WL have done some sums and have worked out the minimum numbers they can do and squeek by, maybe even with some profit to by a certain chap a bacon butty. I feel this is likely what happened. A new doctor gives them something, but look what happened last time, oh, what you missed it? Oh, well…

I can only recommended they do something properly with the classic range and not try to shoe horn it in with the modern tat. Those mixed boxed sets alone must have cost them a lot of sales, on both sides of the fence.

And yes, there is definitely still maximum interest in Dr Who, just not the modern tat.

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP07 Aug 2022 4:25 p.m. PST

I've never understood the whole Dr. Who thing. Is the gaming audience primarily British? I've never seen a Dr. Who game played, demonstrated, mentioned, talked about, etc. in the states.

The H Man07 Aug 2022 5:02 p.m. PST

As far as the show goes, there are fans everywhere. Usually people you'd least expect, like Trekkies. There are also pockets of fans in sci fi clubs.

On the wargaming side, it's thinner, but the same is so with Star trek or Star wars. You have to like both the franchise and the hobby.

The other problem is there isn't a lot of Who wargaming stuff. There are rules, bootlegs and non wargaming minis. There are out of production minis also, but the only current ones are black tree with a huge range of older sculpts that still sell and Warlords lame horse of cgi oddities.

The only higher quality logical sculpts are the likes of crooked dice, and other "licence is in the mail" comps.

I feel the modern tat had a popularity similar to (a small screen version of) LOTR film trilogy, and GWs game is still going. So, if in the right hands, coughcrookeddicecough, it could do very well indeed.

But, maybe your onto something.

Perhaps they should forget about the odder things and just do what will be hands down popular, like I suggested above with Daleks and unit. Why not concentrate on all the space suited humans and aliens? Trek and wars gamers would probably buy them, along with players of other sci Fi games.

I suspect licence obligations get in the way of actually making a profit selling what people will buy. The BBC want to see their new tat at the head of the range, thus putting true fans off entirely.

A very tough nut to crack.

PS An idea. Look at egalemoss partwork and McFarlane Toys…Why not pump out modern tat to your heart's content, all the while offering a classic collectors club of better stuff sold direct in the background. EM offer classic spacecships and other spacial editions, not available in store (perhaps you can have them order in though??). Just another idea.

forrester08 Aug 2022 5:42 a.m. PST

It seems to be a given that official licensed ranges have a limited lifespan.

In this particular case Id say-

a] inventing a new scale to cut out previous ranges
b] odd choices of items that could appeal to completist collectors but not gamers
c] tied into their own game so you have to buy a shiny box of 3 figures with cards you might not want Too expensive to create even a squad of anything not available in plastic.
d] as above, you cant introduce anything into their game without buying the cards

I dont know if you'd lump their plastic Daleks and Cybermen into "modern tat" as I think those sets are a positive, and they are both post 2005.
Again unfortunate they never extended the range of Daleks to cover earlier versions as they do not fit with Black Tree [see a] above

The show has fans worldwide but I doubt there's enough critical mass to tempt another company to have a go.
Doctor Who is always going to be a problem for wargame design when the central character is averse to military solutions, and while you can set up skirmishes in the Doctor Who universe, that central character may not add much-reduced to die rolls to do techy things. Its more likely as an RPG than a wargame.

The H Man08 Aug 2022 5:45 p.m. PST

Limited Lifespan? Someone forgot to tell GW, and black tree. So, mostly yes, but there are clearly major exceptions.

Your B option doesn't make sense. WL doesn't have an even close to full range, so there is nothing for compleatist collectors to collect.

The Daleks and Cybermen are definitely modern tat. Maybe the Daleks you could get away with or convert for classic, but the clanky, hear them a mile off, Cybermen would need serious work. I'm really not sure how they are a positive? Other than Price compared to metal? Clanky need a tonne of work Cybermen vs metal good to go?

Maybe there is an opportunity for some after market parts, re the Daleks?

I think its good for squad based wargaming. The doctor and companions filling a command roll. The doctor was often taking charge and encouraging the troops. And even beyond that his companions certainly would. Leela, Jamie, Ace, you'd have to tie them down. There's plenty of scope for large games, Dalek invasion of Earth (including pre doctor events), evil of the Daleks (if I have the right one, with all the Dalek Toys).

Id love to see epic battles/flames or war Style. Doctor and companions either on one base, or as separate elements of a squad that can split up, or just as separate commanders entirely. They usually got split up, each taking a portion of the good guys with them:

The brigadier leading infantry into the factory with overhead helicopter throwing grenades as support. While the doctor (in Bessie) commands some landrovers out to the marshes to blow up the ship. As Jo rallies the locals in the pub to take on the master in the post office. With landrovers in flames, the doctor manages to get in the ship, which crashes outside the factory, as the master arives in the post Van. Just as his robot army crawl from the factory ruins amid fleeing soldiers, here comes Jo and the soccer hooligans.

forrester09 Aug 2022 1:48 a.m. PST

The Black Tree range is still there, but dormant [like Warlord] Its a very full range and the only missing item [for me] is the 7th Doctor Emperor Dalek. Im assuming they wont or cant expand further.
GW is the exception to everything! -I got a lot of their LOTR figures , but have lost touch and don't know if this is something they are currently promoting much if at all?

Maybe completist isn't the right word-certainly Warlord's isn't a complete range by any means- but I'm thinking more of the collector rather than the gamer, who feels a yearning to depict Dr Mysterio or a Tetrap.[Ive done that myself with Black Tree-my collection is a mix of skirmish groups and "because I felt like it"].

Clearly we disagree on the aesthetics of Time War Daleks and Nightmare Cybermen! Yes price is a positive; I couldn't have got them in metal. They are the only ones in the range Ive bought. They are accurate, but the scale difference is still irritating.
I can understand Warlord launching the range with two sets that are recent, but pity they never followed this up with more "cannon fodder" plastics. Early Daleks and Invasion Cybermen would have been great.
The Third Doctor is a favourite period for games-obviously his exile to Earth and UNIT gives us a period of continuity, but when he stops being Earthbound there are a few semi-connected stories that give us a future setting to play in, involving Daleks, Draconians, Ogrons, and Earth troops.

As you say it does need a bit of thought to use the Doctor convincingly, but I accept it can be done
Ive seen the Warlord freebie on their site. Suffice to say that wasn't a high point of the series and won't be tempting me!

But no, I cant see anyone else taking the leap of creating a new range and supporting game. I'd be happy with more proper 28mm character figures to supplement what I have [or indeed replace the older BT ones]

Puster Sponsoring Member of TMP09 Aug 2022 3:34 a.m. PST

Obviously WLs range is dead

I admit that is not so obvious to me.

Still, I am sure they had a reason to make their minis so different from the traditional 28-32mm ranges that cross-usage for humans is next to impossible. These are, to me, collectors pieces, without much usage for games.

Not that the background of WHO allows for tabletop battles or many shootouts. Its simply not in character (to me). Creating a matching game is the hardest part here – not just a pretense to make "gaming" minis instead of paying for the collectors mini franchise.

The H Man10 Aug 2022 1:54 a.m. PST

I have thought on the combat/shooting issue.

Instead of simply having that type of action, the rules could simply have a small number of actions that all achieve similar results.

Eg, a model may have a defence, intelligence, wit, knowledge, dialogue stats.

A unit soldier and Sarah Jane come across a closed door and an ice warrior guard.

The soldier may shoot the guard using gun strength v guards defence, however the guard has his armour, adding to his defence. Yet, if he succeeds, the guard will die.

On the other hand Sarah Jane can use her wit, which would be high, v the guards intelligence (low). And removes him in a similar fashion to if the soldier had shot him. She probably told him he was needed further down the corridor…

Now they can go through the door…it's locked. Now, the soldier could shoot it, maybe he has a grenade, but they may need to move first to avoid the explosion. Or…

Sarah Jane, or the soldier could use their knowledge against the doors feeble intelligence. Perhaps they see the change in pattern on the wall and press it there, or perhaps they are smart enough to realise it's not really locked after all. What if they fail? Call in the chap with the screwdriver.

Of course, if Jo were there, she would have talked the guard into submission using her overwhelming dialogue value.

The H Man12 Aug 2022 5:11 p.m. PST

I feel LOTR and Doctor Who are basically the same, game wise.

If you look at GWs, they have skirmish scenarios from key scenes and they also have large battles. So there is no reason Who can't do the same.

The H Man12 Aug 2022 5:14 p.m. PST

I feel LOTR and Doctor Who are basically the same, game wise.

If you look at GWs, they have skirmish scenarios from key scenes and they also have large battles. So there is no reason Who can't do the same

joedog14 Aug 2022 11:15 a.m. PST

DW as an RPG miniatures line requires the Doctor (as many options as possible, starting with those that are most popular, not necessarily most recent) and a good mix of companions/allies and villains/monsters (again, starting with those that are most popular), including small groups of some of these (Daleks, Cybermen, Autons, etc.), as well as background characters/NPCs. This would work best if it was in an established scale, which would allow customers to buy and use these miniatures for OTHER games. I know that the Black Tree and Harlequin (iirc) lines were great sources for "bystanders" and NPCs for other games.

DW as a wargame miniatures line requires "armies" larger numbers of key forces that fit into skirmish or even squad based games. These would include UNIT, Daleks, Cybermen, etc.
Again, this would work best if they fit into an established scale, as it would allow gamers to use things like vehicles, terrain, etc. to fill out the table.

I see DW as an RPG miniatures line as having a higher probability of gaining popularity. It would also attract collectors, and people buying the minis to use for other RPGs.

Packaging a box could include one or two sprues (plastic minis being the easiest to work with, convert, etc.) that would often include one each of a number of characters, but sometimes a group of "troops" perhaps five to ten "human" sized minis per box, which would keep the purchase cost per box reasonable say $20 USD-$25us for six minis. The box sets could be based on a specific Doctor, or specific storylines.

For example: A Third Doctor character set might include the Third Doctor, the Brigadier, Liz Shaw, The Master, Captain Yates, and Sgt Benton.

Another Third Doctor character set might include Jo Grant and alternate sculpts of the Doctor, The Brigadier, Captain Yates, Sgt Benton, and The Master.

The alternate sculpts could allow different costumes or poses (moving/fighting and standing/talking), making them both useful.

Add in troop sets of Autons Silurians, Astronauts, Daleks, Sea Devils, UNIT soldiers, Sontarans, Ice Warriors, and a set or two of bystanders/victims/"supporting characters", etc.

Of course, a TARDIS exterior box set, and a second box set for the TARDIS interior/control column (or, multiple TARDIS interior boxes, as the control room has changed so often). For Third Doctor they could also release vehicles like Bessie and UNIT Land Rovers.

If the scale matched an existing one – such as Perry or WGA historicals, the DW minis manufacturer would not have to create (sculpt, manufacture, store, ship, etc.) "troop" minis for historical scenarios, but could focus on characters.

The H Man14 Aug 2022 3:36 p.m. PST

Sounds good.

However, it's also borderline what Warlord has tried. Although, where we see the third/classic as most popular they saw the modern. This may not be the fault of WL as I suspect the licence parameters played a role.

Logic dictates to produce product for the best market. Dr Who has been torn on half here for a while, between classic and modern. Luckily there probably won't be much fear of ultra modern being anywhere near as popular. However…The BBC will be pushing ultra modern.

Ultra modern to me is Peter Capaldi on words. Where I stopped watching the train wreck and pretty well where the ratings tanked entirely. The woke dial also broke completely.

Unfortunately, most likely, any new and future products will include this muck, as well as modern tat in general.

I would really love to see dedicated classic product lines, but it is unlikely.

This doesn't stop us discussing such things however…

joedog15 Aug 2022 9:19 p.m. PST

New Who shark jumped for me about midway through the second season of Matt Smith.

I loved Capaldi's take on The Doctor – those few times he was allowed to do stuff, but too many episodes were poorly written, and the show did not flow like it had during the first few seasons of the reboot.

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