"29th Infantry Division Keeps Historic Patch" Topic

The Army National Guard will get to keep its famed 29th Infantry Division patch with references to the Confederacy after a review from a commission established by Congress to consider removing references tied to Southern rebels used by the military…

Military: link

A small victory, but does not look to be 100% from reading the article (something about still having to change something about their heraldry). But still great they can keep the historic patch.

At least they didn't have to change patch designs like the 45th division. It first had the swastika during ww1. Of course they changed it to the Native American Indian symbol of the thunderbird when WW2 came around. I'm glad the 29th is able to keep their patch.

Before I read the article, I had assumed the patch must have included a Confederate Battle Flag, which I could have understood, but find it is the fact that the yin yang symbol is partly grey that was the issue. How pathetic! To remove it would surely have risked suggesting that 'soldiers with family ties to the Confederacy' were no longer welcome to join the US Army.

How very odd to see common sense prevail!

Grelber

PC, SJW, Woke, etc. out of control … again … But a little victory for history & common sense …

You see though awful Northerner , who fought in the war. Believe in forgiveness and reconciliation. They should have never forgive or forget and keep the traitors down even until today.

Last statement ??

Wearing that patch didn't seem to be a problem on Omaha beach, don't these people have anything better to do, like, train troops for war?

I thought the patch was a good thing, symbolizing unity and mutual forgiveness. Yea, it was about the war – so what? it shows that both sides serve together now for the greater good. More of an inspiration.

Maybe somebody should design a patch with a similar red and blue pattern. We can all wear it.

Tortorella

That's not a half bad idea.

Tortorella +1

Grelber

You see though awful Northerner , who fought in the war.

I didn't fight in the ACW ?!? 😯I was not born yet !!! 👶

Major Mike +1 x 10 …

Don't waste time on rewriting history that we can't change anyway. We have to remember and learn from the past. And anytime the military wastes time & $ on woke, CRT, etc. topics in time better used to train to be warfighters.

If some up in the highest leadership positions have not noticed … we live in very dangerous times, e.g. Ukraine/Putin, Xi/Tiawan, Iran, GWoT, etc. And No Climate Change is and cannot be the Military's highest priority. Was not 18 months ago or is it now. As some in very high leadership positions has said before and are still saying.

Maybe somebody should design a patch with a similar red and blue pattern. We can all wear it.

We have one … it's called the American Flag. If anyone finds that threating, as I have heard some say in the media, etc. Well, maybe they should go live somewhere else …

Soon all references to the Civil War of Southern Succession between the States, the then Recent Unpleasantness will be erased and it will be as if it never existed. Future generations will told the tragedy of slavery in the United States and no one will ever know how it ended.

+1 Bob … it is like something out of 1984 …

The "woke/CRT/1619" culling of our history continues … Now want to remove CSA Battle Streamers from unit flags. Erasing military history for some units that fought for the CSA. Again, likened to Orwell's "1984".

You can't erase history because you don't like it or disagree with it.

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Not what I mean, Legion, but I get your point. A national symbol like the flag is not a specific unit patch however. Red and blue symbolize our division, so make them symbolize our unity with a patch that helps redefine the negative and turn it into a positive. This is exactly what the 29th infantry patch does for that unit.

Maybe we can show a new unity with a similar red/blue patch.

The flag is a separate topic. Some have disrespected the flag in protest. It was the enemy flag for the South at one time. Fox News has always claimed red white and blue and splashed it everywhere to help sell their image. They know marketing. Those Medicare supplement insurance tv ads are always in red white and blue to make them look like official government entitlements. The flag colors are being monetized and politicized more and more. It's our job as citizens to make sure we don't fall for it and identify the flag mostly with one party, one news network, one insurance company, a product, etc.

My point was that maybe a red/blue patch can become a specific symbol of healing and a return to unity for everyone, as it did for the 29th.

My point was that maybe a red/blue patch can become a specific symbol of healing and a return to unity for everyone, as it did for the 29th.

Well there are a few US Army Red, White & Blue patches. And those have been around for a long time. E.g. 82d, 11th, etc. As well as the US Army wears the American flag on the combat uniform.

As far as unity & healing … that is not able to occur at this time. With all the current "events" going on for many months. Again, the tail is wagging the dog.

If someone wants to wear a red, white & blue patch the American flag is fine. Even the Betsy Ross flag, which some say is a White Supremacists symbol. It is not … it is a part of our history. If some want to believe otherwise … that's on them.

Fox News has always claimed red white and blue and splashed it everywhere to help sell their image.

I watch FOX … I like their support of Vets, the Military, etc. Some of the other news media has said many things that is not supportive of the Vets, the military, LEO, etc.

The list of woke anti-military, anti-LEO, etc., is rampant on many of those progressive woke "news" channels. And don't forget The View … to them everything is about racism … If everything is racist than nothing is racists …

Getting off my soap box … 'nuff said …

I understand what you are saying.

So this patch would be only red and blue – no white. It could be the same design as the 29th. It would symbolize the desire for reunification as the blue gray patch has done. It's not about the flag, more about political maps and divisions. It's an update of the 29th blue/gray for citizens.

i am looking at how Fox markets itself. The Murdochs are masters of messaging their viewers and making sure rivals are portrayed through itheir lense. If all conservatives liked pretty butterflies, they would flood the Fox sets with that image. They want results in the bank.

By the way, I have never seen the View and never will. Those people make me cringe. But all I know about them is what Fox tells me. Same for MSNBC. I do watch CNN for broader news content than Fox, along with PBS. I have never seen anti vet bias on these two that I recall, quite the opposite. Woke, yes. Anti vet, no.

i am looking at how Fox markets itself.

Nothing illegal about that … yet …

They want results in the bank

Yep Capitalism works along with freedom of speech. Unless they get taxed out of business …

Those people make me cringe.

The only time I see The View is the clips FOXs shows. To highlight their idiocy, racism, bias, anti-American, etc. .

Woke, yes. Anti vet, no.

It has been there … I saw it … Not only anti-Vet but Anti-Military. Not that often … but again it is there.

I got "sensitive feel'n's", ya know !

I was wrong, heard the Brooke Baldwin quote and apologized to you on the other thread, Legion…. I have sensitive feelings myself!

Thank you ! Didn't know she was on TMP …

The scrubbing of the CSA continues for better or worse …

link

@Tort, as a side, these links are more examples of my point in the other thread. Obviously I see these all combined as one, not individual and isolated. Again IMO. Have a good one.

35th, maybe there is some difference with West Point though. On the one hand, Lee was an excellent student and and an alum, hero of the Mexican War. On the other, he effectively broke his oath to defend the Constitution by resigning in order to fight against it. If he remains "unscrubbed" at West Point, there needs to be context. These people are part of our story, but they benefited from revisionism for more than a century. His example should not be the one to follow. The "scrubbing" of the CSA ought to allow for the truth without removing all references to it. It happened. Now we can learn more about it from more than one perspective.

I admire Lee up to a point, and I have admired Arnold just as much as a soldier, but they did what they did.

@Tort I said link(s) as a whole and in combo. Division patch, streamers, etc. I have no issues with context added, just with scrubbing, with which I think you agree.

Did not see the cost just to make these changes. Wow! I assume taxpayers money.

Yes agree.

And the cost is nothing compared to, say, the F35 overruns. But your point is well taken. Why spend anything on this? I would prefer that Lee stay but that everyone realize that his ultimate choice was to break his oath.

There were deep lessons to be learned from the war. Principles became more profound. We cant just leave out the Confederates.

35th, did you see the photo of the sign at the entrance to the science building at West Point? It says Ku Klux Klan under an image of a hooded figured It was discovered during the review there. This is too much for me, it's gotta go, IMO.

tort Did not see that in Legions link. If there is a sign at West Point that Advocates the Ku Klux Klan, it by all means should be removed. That would be totally unacceptable.

I would say the same for a BLM, Antifa, Communists Hammer and sickle, Al-Qaeda, Proud Boys, etc., hanging there.

tort Did not see that in Legions link. If there is a sign at West Point that Advocates the Ku Klux Klan, it by all means should be removed. That would be totally unacceptable.

There wasn't a picture, but it said:

"The panel also discovered a triptych, or multi-paneled art piece, at the entrance of West Point's Bartlett Hall that says "Ku Klux Klan" and appears to show a hooded figure with a rifle."

Picture of that particular panel here:

link

Thanks Steve. I assume it will soon be gone and should be.

Any West Point grades out there to comment on seeing this or it's context? The only comments I can find on the web is it might have been added in the 30's. But no definitive information, just speculation.

There were deep lessons to be learned from the war. Principles became more profound. We cant just leave out the Confederates.

I agree … again we can't forget our history. The good, the bad and the very ugly …

It says Ku Klux Klan under an image of a hooded figured It was discovered during the review there. This is too much for me, it's gotta go, IMO.

Yes, if it there it has to go. And those responsible punished …

I would say the same for a BLM, Antifa, Communists Hammer and sickle, Al-Qaeda, Proud Boys, etc., hanging there.

Agreed in all cases … FWIW I don't know why Antifa is not designated as "Domestic Terrorist". If some Gitmo is nice this time of year.

And of course why Antifa members/criminals after being arrested are released shortly afterwards ? Again, we have the right to assemble and protest. But not destroy, burn, attack LEOs, etc. which was their standard in seemed.

The same could be said about over 500 BLM, etc. riots in 2020. Looting, burning, destroying LEO vehicles, etc., etc., are not peaceful protests.

link

Photo and article

Tortorella how dare you this is just too woke!

Something just came over me…. Talking about Asleep vs Woke, I also wonder how long the image has been there and why it seems like no one had noticed it or questioned it. I think most of us agree that this image is not appropriate, regardless of opinions about soldier alums like Lee. As a matter of history I would like to know more about it.

So more is coming out about it. This from the CNN website, no coverage from Fox that I could find:

"According to the Academy's Public Affairs office, the triptych's late sculptor, Laura Gardin Fraser, "wanted to create art that depicted 'historical incidents or persons' that symbolized the principled events of that time, thereby documenting both tragedy and triumph in our nation's history."

Dedicated in 1965, is it making a point somehow about the negative impact of the Klan? I have not seen it in context, it sounds like part of a broader work.

Tort, your quotes below. Exactly what I asked. Context. Why was a KKK plaque ever placed there? There had to be a purpose. Otherwise I am sure many Plebs would have complained years ago.

""Something just came over me…. Talking about Asleep vs Woke, I also wonder how long the image has been there and why it seems like no one had noticed it or questioned it. I think most of us agree that this image is not appropriate, regardless of opinions about soldier alums like Lee. As a matter of history I would like to know more about it.

So more is coming out about it. This from the CNN website, no coverage from Fox that I could find:

"According to the Academy's Public Affairs office, the triptych's late sculptor, Laura Gardin Fraser, "wanted to create art that depicted 'historical incidents or persons' that symbolized the principled events of that time, thereby documenting both tragedy and triumph in our nation's history."

Dedicated in 1965, is it making a point somehow about the negative impact of the Klan? I have not seen it in context, it sounds like part of a broader ""

Exactly, we are not getting the real story about this from the MSM is my guess.

Yeah that KKK plaque needs to go into a museum. Period … regardless of anything else.

Dedicated in 1965, is it making a point somehow about the negative impact of the Klan? I have not seen it in context, it sounds like part of a broader work.

This is on Reddit (the Sherman Posting subreddit), so it will have some profanity, but you might find this of interest:

link

@Tort found it on Fox today. Also some nice photos of All 3. Seems like you would have destroy it all to get rid of it.

Fox News


link

Thanks Steve, and 35th. I guess it's a history lesson, although it's not really clear. Maybe a small plaque to the side explaining the context is enough. Nice doors to honor vets and no harm intended, it seems.

Tort, as always, you are welcome. Take care

Anyone else catch that the Lee buildings at West Point are in "Reconciliation Plaza"?

Good point … but does not fit some's agenda ? Again …

From Military.Com :

"Nationalist", White Supremacist, extremists in MT NG …

link

@Legion, you ever notice they are only "extremists", if they are viewed as supporters of only one side? Even if that is not the case.

Yes it is very easy. We have been given a clinic on it in the last several years.

I think this was a cross post or I would not have posted on this thread.. My interest in modern military matters is over.

if they are viewed as supporters of only one side? Even if that is not the case.

Of course that seems to be the norm in many cases …