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"Rules for 12-16 figure battalions/regiments?" Topic


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Comments or corrections?

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP01 Aug 2022 10:27 a.m. PST

Wondering what rules are out there that represent infantry battalions or regiments at 12-16 figures per. Thanks.

Rich Bliss01 Aug 2022 10:43 a.m. PST

Volley and Bayonet with 15mm figures.

Personal logo Herkybird Supporting Member of TMP01 Aug 2022 10:55 a.m. PST

Pity you are not doing Seven Years War, or mine would fit the bill!!! link

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP01 Aug 2022 11:06 a.m. PST

Empire and all its clones. Rich, did they change something? Last time I saw V&B those 3"x3" bases were brigades--regiments, maybe, as the term was used on the Continent, but certainly not battalions.

For what my opinion's worth, 79th, don't do it. If they're in single rank, they look like a color guard, and double rank just worsens the usual horse & musket distortion of the unit footprint. If twice as many figures cost too much, consider dropping down a scale to keep your battalions 24 figures or more in two ranks. At least look at both options before you start basing figures.

MajorB01 Aug 2022 11:33 a.m. PST

12 figures in 2 ranks of 6 look fine to me. But then I have been wargaming for many decades.

Black Hat Miniatures01 Aug 2022 12:11 p.m. PST

I use Neil Thomas based rules (from his Napoleonic Wargaming book) with 12 man units in 54mm…

TheOtherOneFromTableScape01 Aug 2022 12:15 p.m. PST

WRG 1685-1845

14Bore01 Aug 2022 12:35 p.m. PST

As said Empire 1=60 works out 12 figures to a Battalion

Rich Bliss01 Aug 2022 12:42 p.m. PST

Robert

You can play V&B at what is termed the "battalion level" each SP = 200 men.

advocate01 Aug 2022 1:13 p.m. PST

You can easily play Black Powder with those units – the rules are pretty agnostic as far as unit size is concerned. I think the same is true of "Soldiers of napoleon" but I have no direct experience of those rules.
I'm thinking of using 16 figure battalions myself,for reasons of space, practicality and cost. 16 so I can have four bases of 4 figures to allow for a square. I already have figures on 2*2 bases, so I'm not going to go for 3 figures per base and 12 per battalion. No, it won't look as good as a battalion twice the size – but I can have twice as many manoeuvre-units for the same cost.

cavcrazy01 Aug 2022 1:39 p.m. PST

When I started gaming, the group I started with were using home grown rules with 16 man foot units and 12 man horse. I thought it looked fine. I do however game with larger units now. I am basing for Column, Line, and Square…much larger units.

johannes5501 Aug 2022 2:09 p.m. PST

You can use "Over the hills" With 16 figures per infantry unir

Robert le Diable01 Aug 2022 2:28 p.m. PST

There was a set in the late '80s/early '90s called "Corps d'Armee" which used a 1:50 figure ratio, a French battalion of c.600 therefore being represented by twelve figures. A thousand soldiers, obviously, would be represented by twenty figures.
One of the advantages of the French Army, with regard to Infantry and, to some extent, Cavalry, is that so many units had virtually the same uniform (especially when gauntlets concealed the cuffs). So, surely it would be possible to base figures in such a way two, or three, side by side, on a base 15mm by 15mm, or 22.5mm by 15mm that several units could be combined into one larger one, extracting only the command base, or at least the standard/Eagle. Instead of the 7.5mm frontage for each Infantry figure, Cavalry might have 10mm frontage for each horse, with two side by side having a base 20mm by 20mm. Again, with careful choices of type of regiment and of facing colours, several regiments could be combined; there might not even be any standards/Eagles to be extracted!
A similar approach could be made to some units in other armies plenty of British infantry with yellow facings, for instance, and much Russian Infantry has the same general aspect as I'm sure many Wargamers must have considered already. Of course, there's always the issue of greatcoats.

Old Glory Sponsoring Member of TMP01 Aug 2022 2:44 p.m. PST

I use the original WRG musket and ball rules.
Average 12 figure Battalions, Austrians are 20 figures.
After a While I wanted bigger looking games and units.
I doubled all the units, rebased all units with a 2nd rank--- turning the French into 24 figures and the Austrians into 40 figure units for examples.
Everyone who I game with knows the 2nd rank is only for show and does not change the game or rules.
I provide all the Armies so that does not pose a problem
All in 15/18 mm of course -- Gods own scale preference.

Russ Dunaway

Shardik01 Aug 2022 3:25 p.m. PST

Lasalle, Field of Battle, etc

Matamoros1337 Supporting Member of TMP01 Aug 2022 3:44 p.m. PST

Lasalle 2, 4 stands of either 3 figs or 4 figs each. Your choice.

Legionarius01 Aug 2022 4:11 p.m. PST

Most wargames rules grossly distort real distances. We game with minis because they look good. I say do whatever you and your friends like.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP01 Aug 2022 4:26 p.m. PST

Thank you, Rich. That must have been a later edition. I'm a really hard sell on those.

Legionarius is right, of course. But I'd hedge about two things. One is that the smaller, chunkier line maneuvers differently, and you have to be careful about enfilade rules. The other is that you can make your unit so artificially deep that the supports can't be in their proper position. Everything else is aesthetic: do what looks right on the table to you.

dantheman Supporting Member of TMP01 Aug 2022 5:59 p.m. PST

Shako is designed for 12-16 man battalions.Readily available. Several scenario books out too.

khanscom01 Aug 2022 6:06 p.m. PST

"Grand Army" uses battalions from 9- 30 figures @ 40:1; typical French battalion at field strength would use 15 figures.

pfmodel01 Aug 2022 9:51 p.m. PST

Any rules which support the scale required for 12-16 figure units would be sufficient. If it's a battalion each element needs to represent 200 men, if its regiment then its about 600 men.
Thus you will be commanding about 10,000 men, if battalion then Rules will fall into this group are listed in this video:
youtu.be/DXJDR6p7E_A
OR you will be commanding about 30,000 men, if regiment then Rules will fall into this group are listed in this video:
youtu.be/5U--NhX9Vxw

Dexter Ward02 Aug 2022 1:31 a.m. PST

Shako, Lasalle. Pretty much any rules which use 4 bases per battalion (which is many sets). Just put 4 figures per base. All my 28mm Napoleonics are 4 x 40mm square bases per unit, with 4 infantry or 2 cavalry per base.

BillyNM02 Aug 2022 2:12 a.m. PST

+1 for WRG 1685-1845

Some of the mechanisms were ahead of their time and still pretty elegant compared to the bucketful of dice approach so many now use.

The rules may even be available as a free download – so definitely woth a try if they are.

Martin Rapier02 Aug 2022 5:56 a.m. PST

Anything with bases as the number of figures is generally irrelevant. Where figure numbers do matter, the old WRG rules (mentioned above).

All my Napoleonic 6mm infantry is based in groups of 12 figures (6x2), which can represent anything from a company to a division, depending on the rules in use.

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP03 Aug 2022 8:02 a.m. PST

Thanks for the thoughts.

Robert, don't worry. I am playing around with some 3mm figures for the 1809 campaign using Volley and Bayonet and I have 96-100 infantrymen per regimental stand.

shugyosha03 Aug 2022 8:44 a.m. PST

Apart from the few rules that use figures in game mechanics still, like Napoleon's Battles and General de Brigade, I never cared what any rulebook said about figures. Basing is more important but negotiable as well. As long and your opponents are Ok with the look, of course. Better to focus on finding enjoyable rules.

Allan F Mountford03 Aug 2022 11:55 p.m. PST

WRG 1685-1845

Link to groups.io where the rules and updated play sheets can be downloaded:

groups.io/g/WRG1685to1845

Travellera04 Aug 2022 12:09 a.m. PST

Although skirmish rules, Muskets & Tomahawks/Shakos & Bayonets as well as Rebels & Patriots all using up to 12 man per unit

forrester10 Aug 2022 5:38 a.m. PST

The fairly recent Shadow of Eagles rules suggest standard 16 figure units, but not compulsory as long as there are the necessary 4 bases.
I do this for space, economy, and because I can manage 16 figures as a batch. I hate painting half a unit.

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP10 Aug 2022 12:03 p.m. PST

I bought a copy of Rebels and Patriots, so I am leaning towards that right now.

Last Hussar15 Aug 2022 6:27 a.m. PST

Any. Literally any rules written for unit=Battalion

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