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"Pump and Dump" Topic

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Mr Elmo31 Jul 2022 9:21 a.m. PST

Does anyone else get the impression that the larger game companies are releasing games, riding the first wave, then selling the line to those willing to fight for the scraps?

Warlord moved items to Skytrex
Fantasy Flight no longer does Armada, it's AMG

Any others I missed?

Disco Joe31 Jul 2022 9:40 a.m. PST

What is AMG that you are referring to?

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP31 Jul 2022 10:50 a.m. PST

Well – I hadn't realised that Skytrex had picked up Cruel Seas and Gates of Antares.

I suppose that means they haven't done as well as hoped…but they are nice figures.

Andrew Walters31 Jul 2022 10:58 a.m. PST

Is it pump and dump?

Or does the big company think, "We need to sell X units of the latest bits and bobs for it to be worthwhile developing those bits and bobs, and we're not seeing it. We could let it wither and die, making money on the few very late adopters. The fans would hate us. Or we could sell/license this to a smaller company that can keep it alive because their X number is smaller. Then the fans get more bits and bobs."

They might be doing us a favor.

Riding the wave that they created doesn't seem unethical. Getting out of the product when it is losing money doesn't seem wrong. Letting another company continue the line instead of abandoning the fans seems like a good idea.

I have no idea what's actually happening, but it doesn't seem necessarily like someone is exploiting the situation.

jsmcc9131 Jul 2022 11:12 a.m. PST

Warlord owns Skytrex

Grelber31 Jul 2022 11:14 a.m. PST

I have been surprised to see that some people decide they would like to have a certain army, and then figure out what they need, and order it. The whole thing.
With me, it has always been a matter of buying an army over a period of years.
So, from my point of view, if games are being turned over to other companies to continue producing them, great! I can still get the figures I need, I can still get the rules supplements. Hooray!

Since you mentioned it, I have noticed that Two Hour Wargames has turned over some of its games to other companies, who are presumably responsible for printing and selling the rules. North Star seems to be handling the business end of things for several folks who would rather sculpt figures than fill orders and keep the books. Bad Squiddo is just one company there the owner pays somebody to sculpt the figures they want, then arranges for production and sales.

Perhaps the old one-man shop business model we had for so many years is gradually fading away, too.


Bunkermeister Supporting Member of TMP31 Jul 2022 12:17 p.m. PST

Andrew Walters +1

I don't know if that is what is happening but I am glad that old product lines stay in production. In the toy soldier world of 54mm plastic figures there are a number of old army men that are being kept alive by Tim Mee buying up old molds or leasing production on long out of production toys. Some have been out of production for 50 years or more. I am surprised the molds are still around even.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP31 Jul 2022 12:38 p.m. PST

I'm with those who are just glad to see a line still available. Far too many aren't. Worst cases are franchise armies where you can expect the studio to rent the rights to someone else every few year--or to expect the same money year after year when the first rush is gone.

If you wind up needing to buy all your toys from one place--unique scale, or copyrighted type--buy viable armies just as fast as you can. Take a breath, and then buy all you'll ever want--quickly.

Tgerritsen Supporting Member of TMP31 Jul 2022 1:48 p.m. PST

And Atomic Mass is owned by Asmodee, who owns Fantasy Flight.

Mr Elmo31 Jul 2022 7:19 p.m. PST

So each company is owned by the larger (dumper) in a way.

Maybe it helps to segregate your marginal product off to a cottage industry type operation better able to handle the (lack) of scale.

A bit like the old GW specialist games division, except it's not different products in a universe so much as selling product post launch bubble.

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP01 Aug 2022 4:37 a.m. PST

Warlord owns Skytrex

I did not know / had forgotten if I did know that grin

So it's just branding.

Lorenzo WG01 Aug 2022 6:42 a.m. PST

Hello all.
I can confirm that Skytrex is a sister company to Warlord Games.

It is indeed a smaller business, but the quality of their resin and metal casting is the same, with Warlord having often asked their help, in time of intense workload.

Warlord Games ranges and games are many and our resources and focus inevitably have to be split between many projects, with the most popular games like Bolt Action and Black Powder often taking up most of the space on our creative and production schedules.

We believe that by leaving two well developed ranges with a passionate and loyal customer base like Antares and Cruel Seas in the hands of Skytrex we are increasing the opportunities for them to be further developed.
At the same time, we are offering our smaller company the chance to engage with new customers, increase their activity and grow as a business.

Finally, please be aware that the complete range of Antares and Cruel Seas, developed through years of releases, is still all available through Skytrex, and through Warlord web stores as well.

Kind regards,
Warlord Games Customer Service team

Personal logo Murphy Sponsoring Member of TMP01 Aug 2022 8:50 a.m. PST

I wished that someone had picked up the existing line to AQTMF and the Original Dystopian Wars, instead of the mess that both of them are at now.

Oberlindes Sol LIC Supporting Member of TMP01 Aug 2022 5:41 p.m. PST

Pump and dump doesn't appear to be an accurate description, for the reasons Andrew Walters laid out.

Cerdic02 Aug 2022 6:33 a.m. PST

Disco Joe – AMG is a sub-brand of Mercedes-Benz that makes sports versions of Mercedes cars.

This may not be the answer to the actual question you asked…

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