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""Cavaliers and Roundheads" by Gygax and Perren?" Topic

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22 Jul 2022 2:58 a.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Changed title from ""Cavaliers and Roundheads" by Gygax and Perrin." to ""Cavaliers and Roundheads" by Gygax and Perren?"Removed from Renaissance Product Reviews board

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hi EEE ya Supporting Member of TMP18 Jul 2022 3:13 a.m. PST

Hllo everyon,

I just got myself a copy of the first edition of "Cavaliers and Roundheads" by Gygax and Perren, is that the best rule on for the ECW?

TMP link



Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP18 Jul 2022 5:48 a.m. PST

"Best" is very much a personal opinion, like if pineapple belongs on pizza (it doesn't).

skipper John18 Jul 2022 6:26 a.m. PST

Extra: That's the reason they make those little "tidbits" is specifically for Pizza! Now spinach on pizza is another mater completely.

Paskal, I much prefer "Pikemen's Lament" myself.

DisasterWargamer Supporting Member of TMP18 Jul 2022 7:30 a.m. PST

They are what I enjoy using the most for larger battles

Note there were additions or errata published in the strategic review vol 1 no 2 link

advocate18 Jul 2022 7:34 a.m. PST

If they were the best, then why doesn't everyone use them. Though given their age, I'm intrigued. What keeps you using them, DW?

DisasterWargamer Supporting Member of TMP18 Jul 2022 8:22 a.m. PST

Not sure they are the "best" as mentioned earlier that is very subjective

What I like about them
1 – they are built for larger battles that can easily be completed in a few hours even with new players
2 – they are easy to teach with a small yet satisfying rule book
3 – they are focused on effectiveness/attrition so can appear quite bloody – they are definitely not grinding it out game
4 – they have period mechanics that feel right to me and they flow well
5 – lots of dice though not to many, which keeps many players happy

Chuck in his blog does a much more objective review

KeepYourPowderDry18 Jul 2022 8:44 a.m. PST

Advocate: one very good reason is that they are long out of print and when they are advertised for sale it is usually for silly money

I'd quite like a copy, but I'm not prepared to pay several hundred dollars for a copy

DisasterWargamer Supporting Member of TMP18 Jul 2022 9:03 a.m. PST

I agree about the expense of the original rules – shame unlike Chainmail – where you can buy a pdf version for under 5$ – at the wargames vault

Dave Jackson Supporting Member of TMP18 Jul 2022 9:39 a.m. PST

Perren…Jeff Perren

Tgerritsen Supporting Member of TMP18 Jul 2022 10:48 a.m. PST

I'm surprised no-one has put them up on Wargame Vault for sale. Who owns the rights these days?

Canuck6419 Jul 2022 6:47 a.m. PST

Does anyone have any idea how many copies were published in total? As was stated when they do come available the prices tend to be a bit excessive. I have always wondered why. Are their just not very many copies out there or fans of Gygax just trying to turn them into collector's item? Anyone have any ideas why the crazy prices.


DisasterWargamer Supporting Member of TMP19 Jul 2022 8:33 a.m. PST

No clue how many copies – though there were 2 editions printed – One in 1973 and the 2nd in 1975

KeepYourPowderDry19 Jul 2022 9:18 a.m. PST

I did recently find three or four copies for sale all listed in Texas, and all about $300 USD

Eumelus Supporting Member of TMP19 Jul 2022 12:35 p.m. PST

Thanks so much for posting a link to that old "Strategic Review" not for the C&R addition although that is interesting, but for the far more detailed description by Gygax as to how he intended Original D&D combat to be run. This is the first time I've ever seen it confirmed that he meant for player-character Fighters to have multiple attacks per melee round against 1st-level opponents like orcs, skeletons, etc. It's certainly not explicit in the "little brown books". Now finally, 45 years later, I can run my campaign right!

hi EEE ya Supporting Member of TMP20 Jul 2022 2:25 a.m. PST

@Extra Crispy:
I don't know, I'm just asking the question, because I haven't received and read it yet. As for pineapple and pizza, I don't like either.

I'm pleasantly surprised no one put them on, because I hate digital stuff.

Because they are collectibles!

@skipper John:
Spinach, okay once in a while, but not on pizza and "Pikemen's Lament" don't know, what year was it published?

Bravo and thank you for the link for the additions or errata published in the strategic review vol 1 no 2. I don't want digital stuff…Except to read them quickly and throw them in the trash of my PC.

Yes, you guessed it, I like things that have been out of print for a very long time and I'm always ready to pay a handful of dollars for a copy. You have recently found three or four copies for sale all listed in Texas, and all around US $300 USD ??? It's cheap!

Thank you anyway.

I only want rulers published before 1976 and 25mm

Ah ok it's Perren…Jeff Perren not Perrin.MiniFigs, now I'm having fun with rules from the 60s.

Thank you all, see my latest topics, I'm looking for all periods rules edited before 1976 and if anyone has very old unpainted 25mm MiniFigs for sale (such as those from the Ancient World, Medieval Period and Renaissance ranges that have their weapons integrated into the figurine) and very rare all periods that he sends me his list to:

Thanks in advance.

Anton Ryzbak20 Jul 2022 8:52 p.m. PST

I would suggest Tercio by Magister Militum, simple fast and fun with reasonably realistic results and some pretty comprehensive army lists. link

hi EEE ya Supporting Member of TMP22 Jul 2022 12:53 a.m. PST

From what year is this rule?

Gulfcoastdaddy01 Nov 2022 1:21 p.m. PST

Pascal, I had a copy in 1977? ???

hi EEE ya Supporting Member of TMP26 May 2024 6:40 a.m. PST



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