 Editor in Chief Bill   | 14 Jul 2022 11:27 a.m. PST |
Answering Ukrainian calls for more long-range precision weapons, the US last week said it will send more High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS) to Kyiv as part of a new $400 USD million weapons package. Can the new HIMARS turn the battle in the Donbas in Ukraine's favour? France24: link |
| Editor in Chief Bill | 14 Jul 2022 4:11 p.m. PST |
Artillery strikes by Russia way down since the HIMARS hit the warehouses. |
| Bandolier | 14 Jul 2022 5:32 p.m. PST |
4 or 8 HIMARS won't change the game – just slow it down and make it more expensive for the Russians. |
| HazeGray | 14 Jul 2022 6:54 p.m. PST |
If the Russian ammo dumps are being hit by the HIMARS that will affect how they can bombard the Ukrainian forces. Given how they are so bad at combined arms this would hurt their offensive actions. We will see how things work out. |
Cuprum2  | 14 Jul 2022 7:00 p.m. PST |
First there was faith in the miracle weapon "Bayraktar", then – in NATO caliber artillery, now – in HIMARS. What can radically solve even 100 such MLRS? Nothing))) Well, the methods of locating warehouses and concentrating and sheltering equipment and soldiers will simply be changed. And that's it.
Well, the Ukrainians will shell Russian cities in the depths of Russian territory. This will only cause a patriotic outburst and thousands of new Russian volunteers will go to the front. Poorly the West understands the Russian mentality))) Russians practically do not differ in this from Ukrainians.
Just a new round of war and increased bitterness – no more. |
 Legion 4  | 14 Jul 2022 7:03 p.m. PST |
HIMARS may certainly help. As the Russians really have a superiority in FA numbers and in some cases ranges. Bottomline – if Putin wins … it's a loss not just for the Ukraine … |
| Bunkermeister | 14 Jul 2022 7:22 p.m. PST |
The problem is the West gives 12 of these and 8 of those and 17 of something else. Spain is donating 10 Leopard 2 tanks. Ten. Wow, watch out Russia. They need 1,000. Not ten.
And a 1,000 trucks to carry the fuel and the ammo.
And 500 Marders to carry the infantry.
And 80 HIMARS. Mike Bunkermeister Creek |
| Cuprum2 | 14 Jul 2022 7:34 p.m. PST |
Such a diverse "zoo" of various foreign systems is a huge headache for maintenance and supply. In fact, in such conditions this is a disposable weapon. Especially in the conditions of the retreat. Damaged or malfunctioning weapons cannot be repaired quickly and will be abandoned or destroyed by their owners themselves. Meanwhile, Western arsenals are emptying. And the production of new weapons and ammunition for them will require considerable time.
I wonder if someone will take advantage of this situation? And one more important point – Ukraine is unlikely to ever pay for these deliveries in the foreseeable future. If he pays at all… |
| Cuprum2 | 14 Jul 2022 7:59 p.m. PST |
Financial Times article "Military briefing: is the west running out of ammunition to supply Ukraine?": link Reading requires a subscription. But if you do not want to do this, then there is a translation in Russian (and automatic reverse translation): link |
| Cuprum2 | 14 Jul 2022 8:26 p.m. PST |
An interesting Russian article about the use of Russian artillery in the war in Ukraine (automatically translated): Recipe for defeat: 5 blunders of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, after which the Russian Army quickly advanced in Ukraine Each artillery raid of the Russian Army deprives the Armed Forces of several large-caliber guns. If the pace of the offensive of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continues, Ukraine will lose artillery within a few weeks. Fighting in Ukraine in 2022 The shortage of ammunition and the low intensity of artillery fire became one of the most unpleasant problems that the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine had to face literally in the first few days after the start of "Operation Z". The three military districts that remained on the territory of Ukraine after the collapse of the USSR were better equipped with guns and ammunition than the Western Group of Forces in Germany. However, a good state of affairs with the remnants of shells and guns was by the beginning of the 90s. After the coup and the outbreak of hostilities in the south-east of Ukraine, the number of shells began to decline rapidly. A significant part of the ammunition for 122 and 152 mm howitzers of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was shot in three years, and in 2016 and 2017 a series of explosions in artillery depots swept the country. After the start of "Operation Z" on February 24, analysts from the Royal United Institute for Defense Studies in the UK stated that over two decades of independence, Ukraine has not managed to establish the production of artillery shells that could make up for the shortage that had formed over several years of hostilities in the Donbass. During the first few days of the special military operation of the Russian Armed Forces in Ukraine, the remnants of ammunition in large arsenals both in the East and in the central part of the country were eliminated by Russian aircraft and Kalibr cruise missiles. The operation of the RF Armed Forces in Ukraine – the second stage In a closed study, the British quoted the first adviser to the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine, Glenn Grant, who back in 2014 warned the Western world that the situation with artillery and ammunition in Ukraine was catastrophic. At the moment of the beginning and carrying out of the first phase of "Operation Z", a critical tension was created at the most important point for the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which the Ukrainian military logistics could no longer withstand. As a result of competent actions of aviation, missile troops, artillery and navy, all large warehouses were destroyed in just three days, and the operational groups of the Armed Forces of Ukraine "South" and "North" after two days of defense began to abandon positions along with weapons.
The tactics of creating fire bags and storming positions. In 2016, the US Army analytical center FMSO published a study (a copy is available to Life), in which all potential enemies of the Russian Federation were warned about the power of Russian artillery, to which the Department of Defense traditionally pays a lot of attention. In particular, the US military devoted a separate chapter to the ability of Russian motorized rifle brigades to create fire bags into which artillery lures the enemy. In simple terms, while several artillery battalions are processing the enemy's positions, motorized rifle units and special forces units go to his flank and, as soon as the artillery cannonade subsides, an assault on the enemy's positions begins, which has not yet had time to recover from the artillery raid. In Ukraine, this tactic paid off one hundred percent. Russian artillery, including both self-propelled systems "Msta-S", "Gvozdika", "Acacia", and heavy strike systems like "Pion" and "Gyacint-B", was able not only to suppress the activity of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in certain areas, but also to crush positions of the Ukrainian army so that there is no work left for motorized riflemen in principle. At the same time, Ukrainian artillery suffered significant losses and was unable to participate in large-scale artillery duels on all fronts, since Russian aircraft fell on it from the sky. A week before the start of preparations for the Ukrainian offensive in the Donbass, analysts at the Royal United Defense Research Institute (RUSI) published a report in which it was written in black and white: "Russia's dominance in the field of self-propelled howitzers and ISTAR will be decisive and may have strategic consequences." Midway through the first phase of Operation Z, former UN inspector and USMC veteran Scott Ritter stated: "The Ukrainian army was unable to resist Russia, even with a three-to-one outnumbered force, resulting in a casualty ratio of 1 to 6, and by the end of hostilities will reach 1 to 20". Russian weapons in Ukraine, or What is ISTAR According to RUSI, the large number of reconnaissance and attack drones in the hands of the Russian troops has reduced the time of zeroing in on enemy positions to ten minutes and, in fact, one full salvo. The fact that the guidance speed of the Russian army will increase several times, the Western military was warned long before the start of "Operation Z". In 2021, the American analytical agency CNA published a non-public report detailing the structure of the Western Military District of the Russian armed forces. In their report, American analysts separately indicated that heavy artillery brigades armed with heavy systems 2S4 "Pion" and 2S7 "Hyacinth-B" were the first to receive a universal satellite detection and targeting kit, which allows you to transmit information via a tactical channel from UAVs, fighters and attack aircraft to field artillery guns. This type of warfare in the United States was called ISTAR (from the English. Intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition, and reconnaissance "reconnaissance, surveillance, target acquisition and additional reconnaissance after impact").
The structure of units and divisions of the Western Military District.
At the same time, Turkish Bayraktar TB-2 attack drones, which Ukraine massively purchased from Turkey both before the start of Operation Z and after, were almost completely destroyed. They tried to use these vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine against the Russian army in the first weeks of a special military operation, however, the change in tactics of the RF Armed Forces made it possible to shoot down Turkish drones in advance, almost at the maximum distance for the Russian air defense systems Pantsir and Tor-2M. As a result of the tactical technique, it was possible to land not only attack vehicles, but also reconnaissance UAVs, which, due to the shortage of MAM-C and MAM-L missiles, were used by the Armed Forces of Ukraine to adjust artillery fire.
Comparison of the range of US and Russian artillery systems. Caesar salad with iron The active advance of the Russian army deep into the territory of Ukraine led to the fact that part of the reserves of the Armed Forces of Ukraine for Soviet-style towed artillery (for example, D-20 and D-30 howitzers) were so depleted that there was no artillery fire at all in some sectors of the front. Self-propelled artillery of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was also actively worked out by Russian aviation: during the day, such equipment was destroyed during artillery duels, and at night, army aviation and Iskander complexes worked at the positions where the Armed Forces of Ukraine removed guns for repair and maintenance. However, American analysts separately singled out "non-kinetic means of warfare" that Russia, in their opinion, actively used to suppress Ukrainian artillery. The first component of such a weapon is the Electronic Warfare Troops. Ukrainian communication systems, supplied by the American L3 Harris and the Turkish Aseslan, suddenly went out both in certain areas where the Russian army operates, and on many kilometers of the front.
The second component of the asymmetric response is the Zoopark artillery reconnaissance systems. Their Russian army, according to Pentagon analysts, used together with the EW forces, and the result was a complete disruption of coordination between Ukrainian units and the destruction of American M777 guns. Ukrainian artillerymen, who took out howitzers to positions, were forced to use ordinary mobile phones instead of a muted connection.
The Ukrainian side, according to American experts, has almost completely lost the similar US-made AN / TPQ-36 Firefinder systems delivered to them. The lack of own complexes "Position-2" on the battlefield has led to the fact that even a few mobile artillery, including NATO self-propelled guns "Dana", "Caesar" and "Suzanna", cannot be used without the risk of a quick retaliatory strike from the RF Armed Forces. Russia's operation in Ukraine cleaning up Ukrainian artillery on the front line and in depth Shortly before the start of "Operation Z", experts from the British analytics center RUSI came to the conclusion that it was Russian artillery that would play a decisive role in defeating the fortified areas of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The Russian Armed Forces were able to disable the Ukrainian long-range artillery systems thanks to a multi-stage "system for the development of combat capabilities." American analysts from the CNA concluded that precisely due to the optimal number of artillery brigades, in parallel with which missile troops also operate, the army can strike "within the 500-kilometer zone and beyond." American analysts unofficially call this approach "non-contact war of the 21st century."
The principle of development of non-contact combat operations. The conclusions of the British RUSI experts and the Americans from the CNA have one important conclusion in common. The volume of Russia's combat capabilities was reported to the top leadership of the United States long before the coup d'ιtat took place in Kyiv. In 2015, when the Ukrainian army was up to its neck in Donbass, this report was updated and presented again. Both times the experts' conclusions were ignored by official Washington and Kyiv. life.ru/p/1498344
It would be interesting to look at the originals of these studies …
|
| nickinsomerset | 14 Jul 2022 10:09 p.m. PST |
Cuprem, that Soviet study does not make any mention of the soviet nazis murdering, looting and raping. Niether does it mention how badly the soviets have done, where was their swift victory? In months they have lost more than 10 years in Afghanistan. Lets keep the dead soviets coming, although we are doing them a favour as they empty out their prisons to fill the ranks of the invaders. Lets face it the attempt by the nazis to create another soviet union has failed, Tally Ho! |
| Editor in Chief Bill | 14 Jul 2022 10:13 p.m. PST |
Well, the methods of locating warehouses and concentrating and sheltering equipment and soldiers will simply be changed. And that's it. Which should have been done in the first place. Having the warehouses (and the headquarters!) in artillery range was bad practice. The question is, do the Russians have the capacity to relocate the warehouses further back, then truck the ammo in? They are already limited in transport. |
| Editor in Chief Bill | 14 Jul 2022 10:14 p.m. PST |
Well, the Ukrainians will shell Russian cities in the depths of Russian territory. This will only cause a patriotic outburst and thousands of new Russian volunteers will go to the front. Poorly the West understands the Russian mentality))) Russians practically do not differ in this from Ukrainians. But the war is not being fought by ethnic Russians, is it? The minorities feel less and less patriotic about fighting this war, I hear. |
| Cuprum2 | 14 Jul 2022 11:08 p.m. PST |
Somewhere I have already cited studies on the ethnic composition of the Russian group in Ukraine. It depends on which region of Russia the BTG was deployed from. In groups from the Caucasus or Siberia, a high percentage of soldiers from local nationalities, which is quite natural. In the BTG from the districts located in Central Russia, almost 100% of the soldiers are ethnic Russians.
But it doesn't really matter. Soldiers from regions with traditional local military cults are even more motivated than Russians. It's just their mentality. The Chechens and Buryats stand out for their militancy. There are no serious national problems.
And here is a Russian article that tells about the recruitment of volunteers under a contract specifically for the war in Ukraine. It is highly motivated volunteers – not conscripts! Here is a battalion formed in Bashkiria: link Four new battalions are being formed in Chechnya: link But a battalion is being formed in the ethnically Russian region – the Nizhny Novgorod region: link And such volunteer units are formed in almost all regions of Russia.
Well, the population of the country has absolute confidence in victory. Everyone believes that the war is against NATO, and the actions of the West confirm this very convincingly. Hoping for some kind of internal unrest in Russia is currently pointless. While there is a war, the population will rally around the authorities (any). So dictates the centuries-old Russian experience. |
| Editor in Chief Bill | 14 Jul 2022 11:52 p.m. PST |
So dictates the centuries-old Russian experience. You forget how many Russians worked voluntarily for the Germans in WWII, apparently hating communism. |
| Umpapa | 15 Jul 2022 12:36 a.m. PST |
HIMARS plus trained personel plus HUGE logistics must be game changer looking how fervently Cuprum is criticizing it. If Russia army would not care about it, Cuprum also would not care. Oh and those miracle weapons saved Kiev and Ukraine in First month of war. Logistics will win this war. Russia do not have enough cars to move huge huge piles of imprecise ammo for a long distances, far from railway net.
West have enough cars to move lot less still huge piles of precise ammo. Precise ammo will not threaten civil people in Russia unless Russians will put ammo dumps in own kidergardens, which is possible, but demoralize Russians. |
| Cuprum2 | 15 Jul 2022 12:45 a.m. PST |
Editor in Chief Bill, can you name the battles in which these people would play a significant role? These people rather tried to survive in the inhuman conditions of German captivity than tried to fight against communism. In addition to the separatists, of course, but there were no more of them than among the French or other nations that fell under German occupation. Umpapa, ok. Then you have nothing to worry about))) Keep up the good work.
Kyiv was saved by the stupidity and delusions of the Russian command. But that's in the past. There are almost 4 million trucks in Russia, of which almost half a million are in the army. What are you talking about? It's funny)))
Yes, there were problems with the ORGANIZATION of logistics. But war teaches quickly. Ukrainians have never bothered to avoid civilian casualties. For eight years they indiscriminately and aimlessly shelled the cities just to squeeze the population of the rebellious regions into Russia. As for the placement of warehouses and military barracks in schools and kindergartens, Ukraine has no equal here. Do you need such photos? There are a lot of them. These photos are taken by the Ukrainian soldiers themselves))) YouTube link |
| Cuprum2 | 15 Jul 2022 1:26 a.m. PST |
Russian soldier, 19 years old. He received a bullet wound near Popasnaya at the beginning of the operation, after recovery he voluntarily returned to his unit. Continues to fight until complete victory. YouTube link |
| williamb | 15 Jul 2022 8:30 a.m. PST |
Again, citing the killing of civilians by artillery strikes by Ukraine as justification for Russian deliberate destruction of large parts of whole Ukrainian cities. Not to mention the murder and rape of civilians by Russian soldiers. Some additional information on artillery ranges not shown in the above diagram. Range of M109A6 with Excalibur round 40km, range of RAP round 30km source: link
the M777 also fires the same rounds, compared to range of 2S19 RAP round 28.9km The 2S19 doe not have the equivalent of the Excalibur round. Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2S19_Msta
Range of US M270 and HIMARS systems 300-500km source: link
compared to Tornado G range of 40km source: link Ranges of other western artillery systems supplied to Ukraine: Range of PZH 2000 RAP round 67km source: link
Rane of Caesar 55km source: link
Range of Zuzana 40km source: link
Range of Krab 40km source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AHS_Krab
About 100 M777s have been sent to Ukraine. There was an initial surge of volunteers joining the Wehrmacht
and SS to fight against Russia during WW2. However, German policies eventually changed that. There were also many people from occupied territories who joined the Wehrmacht and SS due to their ideological beliefs. The volunteers from eastern Europe did so in opposition to Russian rule. Pre-war analysis of Russian army logistics and number of trucks link
Later analysis of Russian logistics in May link List of links regarding numbers of foreign volunteers in German armed forces during WW2
link
One of the links cites 800,000 Ukrainians and other eastern Europeans in the German army and 100,000 in the Germain air force.
jstor.org/stable/26624533 |
 The Virtual Armchair General  | 15 Jul 2022 9:56 a.m. PST |
How grateful I am, and have been, for Cuprum reminding me that Russia was never going to invade, and since it did, has already won the war. Several times. Living in an alternate universe has got to be comforting, rather like a good opium nap. But the waking up part will be hell. TVAG |
| Fingerspitzengefuhl | 15 Jul 2022 10:50 a.m. PST |
Russian Logistics are archaic. No pallets, no ISO containers, no mechanical handling.
Russian ammunition and Fuel storage is catastrophically poor, with accidents commonplace in peacetime.
Russia is using ammunition that is well beyond its use by date and is now importing from Belarus.
Russian Rail bound logistics fixes Logistics to easily targeted locations.
Russian lack modern communications enabling command nodes and staff to be routinely destroyed. The use of eastern Russians to conduct the fight saving Muscovites will backfire.
The T-62M, MTLB and D-30 equipped BTGs are going to fare no better…
Drones from Iran, PT76 bolt action rifles…. link |
| Editor in Chief Bill | 15 Jul 2022 6:46 p.m. PST |
Russian soldier, 19 years old. He received a bullet wound near Popasnaya at the beginning of the operation, after recovery he voluntarily returned to his unit. Continues to fight until complete victory. How interesting that he's wearing American sports apparel. Columbia is the female national personification of the United States. It was also a historical name applied to the Americas and to the New World. I think he's sending a coded message. LOL |
| Editor in Chief Bill | 15 Jul 2022 7:12 p.m. PST |
Russian Telegram channel Rybar claimed on July 12 that Russian requests for and approval of artillery fire pass through a convoluted chain of command, resulting in a delay of several hours to several days between Russian ground forces requesting artillery fire, Russian targeting, and conduct of the strikes. - General David H. Petraeus, US Army (Ret.), as posted on Linked-In |
| Cuprum2 | 15 Jul 2022 11:04 p.m. PST |
Editor in Chief Bill, what surprises you? I like the USA and Americans, I have many friends and acquaintances in the USA. Now I'm not talking about Russian emigrants at all ;-)
The USA is a great country and there is much to be learned from it. No dislike. But alas, in some areas we are competitors – and this is normal. Competition and evolution are the key to progress. So an American T-shirt on a Russian soldier is absolutely normal. And buying goods from the USA, if there is such a desire, is also absolutely normal. Patriotism is not expressed in petty hostility towards other countries and nations – it is expressed in love for one's country and people. This is precisely the main difference between patriotism and nationalism)))
I am absolutely loyal to the Ukrainians, even to those who are now opposed to Russia (except for the convinced Nazis, of course). Even my relatives, cousins, with whom I spent my childhood here in Siberia, are now fighting against Russia (they left for their parents' homeland back in Soviet times). It doesn't matter to me. I continue to help their parents here. And just after the war I will continue communication, if they have such a desire.
I continue to cooperate with my Ukrainian partners – the war will end sooner or later, but life will go on. Everyone needs to take care of their families. Ukraine's Implausible Theories of Victory link Foreign Affairs |
| soledad | 16 Jul 2022 12:53 a.m. PST |
You support Ukraine yet you defend the guvernement, policy and country that send cruise missiles into civilian areas? That terror bomb cities? That specifically targets hospitals and shopping centers? That give honorary titles to units that are responsable for murder rape and plunder? An army whose behaviour rivals the "Dirlewangers " inWWII? I do not get it. |
| Cuprum2 | 16 Jul 2022 2:10 a.m. PST |
I do not support Ukraine – I understand and support Ukrainians. Ukraine (as a state) is now those who allowed the existence of outright Nazism in their state, those who call the streets in their cities the names of Nazi criminals, those who carried out outright terror against dissenters for eight years.
I don't support Russia – I support Russians. The current Russian authorities are mostly negative characters for me. The current government in Russia (as well as in Ukraine, by the way) is riddled with corruption, incompetence, and so on.
And the ongoing war has several facets. There is a typical economic line – redistribution of spheres of influence, control over resources and transport routes. And here there is a war between the West and Russia, which began in 2014. And the West started it. Ukraine is just a battlefield. Here I am indifferent to all sides of the conflict.
Another facet is ensuring the security of states and peoples. Here I am entirely on the side of Russia. Russia has been making efforts for thirty years to find and maintain the status quo and provide some kind of guarantees. The West openly neglected all efforts. As a result, a collision became inevitable.
There is another facet – simply ensuring elementary human rights. And here I am again on the side of those whose interests and rights were violated by the "revolution" of 2014. These people "played by the rules", they honestly chose their power in accordance with all existing laws, but this power was swept away by the rebels with the direct assistance of the West. And then they just tried to kill these people for eight years because they refused to recognize the supremacy of the rebels.
And now, in the aggregate of all these facts, I would rather support the actions of Russia than Ukraine.
As for war crimes, they are committed on both sides, and I also see a large number of deliberate falsifications and exaggerations from the Ukrainian side. So far I have seen only one court where irrefutable evidence has been presented. Everything else – requires verification and evidence. Believe me – from the Russian side there are also a lot of stories about the atrocities of the Ukrainian troops, including those against Russian of Ukraine citizens. But I have no way of verifying whether this is true. Until 100% proof is presented, I consider such things only as an element of the information war. Although some of this will surely turn out to be true in the future. The time will come and we will find out. |
| OSCS74 | 16 Jul 2022 5:30 a.m. PST |
Cumpum2, thank you for your point of view. |
| williamb | 16 Jul 2022 11:59 a.m. PST |
The reason there has only been court trial, is because the accused was the only one who has been captured and brought to trial. Other trials will only happen when those who committed crimes are apprehended. Evidence of Russian war crimes found by non-Ukrainian agencies evidence found by Amnesty link
Evidence found by German Intelligence YouTube link
Evidence found by Human Rights Watch link
Evidence found by U.N mission to Ukraine link
Evidence found by New York Times reporters link
Program launched by US State Department to preserve evidence link
International Criminal Court investigation link
Multi-Nation investigation of Russian war crimes link
Starling Lab provides dossier of evidence of Russian War crimes including deliberate targeting of schools This includes an explanation of how they obtained the information and along with how it was submitted to the ICC and some information on how the ICC conducts trials. link |
| Cuprum2 | 16 Jul 2022 5:46 p.m. PST |
Blah, blah, blah… And no specifics.
Besides, it is impossible to trust Western agencies and experts now for one simple reason – it is an interested party.
We have already seen all this many times – the lies of Western politicians and the media during the conflicts in Yugoslavia, Iraq, and Syria… Even the coming to power of Trump is a wave of lies and insinuations.
Why should things be different now? |
| Druzhina | 16 Jul 2022 9:17 p.m. PST |
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| williamb | 17 Jul 2022 7:36 a.m. PST |
Cuprum2, your claims of blah, blah, blah and no specifics are false. If you had read the articles that were linked, you would have seen specifics and links to reports with specifics. Since the investigations were ongoing, total numbers of war crimes had not been determined when those articles were published. Your own government has confirmed the deportation of over 1,000,000 civilians have been deported from Ukraine which is a war crime or crime against humanity. Regarding the revolution in Ukraine, this link notes what happened in Ukraine from 2004 link As for so called western lies, the third link I posted had a link to this document on war crimes committed by both sides since the start of war PDF link Dismissing the reports as lies of western politician and media would also make your claims of war crimes committed by Ukraine invalid as they would be the lies of Russian politicians and media. The United Nations investigation of war crimes and the International Criminal Court are muti-national and not just "western" countries. The current president of the ICC is from Nigeria and other high-level officials are from South America, Africa, Asia, and Pacific Islanders. To the other readers of this forum thread, my apologies for continuing with this off topic discussion. |
| wardog | 17 Jul 2022 12:12 p.m. PST |
williamb
are the ukranians being given rounds like excalibur/rap to make maximum use of their artillery or are they being given standard rounds
"Range of M109A6 with Excalibur round 40km, range of RAP round 30km source: link
the M777 also fires the same rounds, compared to range of 2S19 RAP round 28.9km The 2S19 doe not have the equivalent of the Excalibur round. Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2S19_Msta
Range of US M270 and HIMARS systems 300-500km source: link
compared to Tornado G range of 40km source: link Ranges of other western artillery systems supplied to Ukraine: Range of PZH 2000 RAP round 67km source: link
Rane of Caesar 55km source: link
Range of Zuzana 40km source: link
Range of Krab 40km source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AHS_Krab
About 100 M777s have been sent to Ukraine." |
| williamb | 17 Jul 2022 1:38 p.m. PST |
Wardog, As of July 8th President Biden approved sending additional ammunition and weapons to Ukraine. As part of this the United States will be sending 1000 rounds of precision guided 155mm rounds to Ukraine. It is not clear if these are Excalibur rounds. There are several online posts about this
link |
| JMcCarroll | 17 Jul 2022 1:41 p.m. PST |
"I understand and support Ukrainians."
So why don't you try and change your governments policies?
I thought all of the professional elite left Russia. Why are you still there? Could it be you have a job with Russian government? Justifying your countries action and condoning all others? |
| Legion 4 | 17 Jul 2022 3:35 p.m. PST |
I'm concerned we i.e., US/NATO, etc., does not have all that the Ukraine needs to stop Putin's imperialism. Putin will just continue to fight a war of attrition, regardless of the Russian losses. Using FA like in WWI. He has more of everything to fight his war of attrition. The Ukrainians are better fighters. The Russians demonstrated poor actual combat capabilities repeatedly. But the number are on Putin's side. Even if he has to almost wipeout a generation of his own people. I still hope the Ukraine can pull out a win. And Putin somehow goes away. He is already a war criminal …But will never be brought to justice, very sadly … |
| Druzhina | 17 Jul 2022 5:04 p.m. PST |
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| Editor in Chief Bill | 17 Jul 2022 5:13 p.m. PST |
Ukraine (as a state) is now those who allowed the existence of outright Nazism in their state, those who call the streets in their cities the names of Nazi criminals, those who carried out outright terror against dissenters for eight years. Ridiculous. |
| williamb | 17 Jul 2022 10:51 p.m. PST |
Editor in Chief Bill, in another forum I posted links to Nazism in Russia and to Wagner (a Russian neo-Nazi group providing military units to the Russian army fighting in Ukraine). Many of the soldiers in the Wagner units have Nazi tattoos. Cuprum2's claim of naming streets after Nazi war criminals is also false. He is apparently referring to a tweet by Eduard Dolinsky that a street was being named after Ivan Pavlenko who was a collaborator and war criminal. The street was actually being named after Viktor Pavlenko, a victim of the Holodomor. see link |
| Druzhina | 18 Jul 2022 1:25 a.m. PST |
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| williamb | 18 Jul 2022 7:01 a.m. PST |
Druzhina, at least the HIMARS and M270 can still reach out to 300km with regular rounds. Lots of unconfirmed reports, which is why I follow sites that verify sources instead of rushing to report the latest news. |
| Umpapa | 18 Jul 2022 7:59 a.m. PST |
Dozen+ posts containing 3/4 of this thread were made by Cuprum. More words then in other 30 Ultramodern threads altogether.
HIMARS must be really painfull for Russians. |
| Legion 4 | 18 Jul 2022 8:02 a.m. PST |
HIMARS must be really painfull for Russians. I certainly hope so … |
| williamb | 18 Jul 2022 8:20 a.m. PST |
Interesting web post on collapse of Russian logistics and effect of HIMARS on logistic points
link |
| Druzhina | 18 Jul 2022 2:26 p.m. PST |
"HIMARS and M270 can still reach out to 300km with regular rounds"
I have read that the 75km standard range is a conservative rating based on near to expiry ammunition in bad weather. 85km or more is possible. wiki gives 92km for the M31 rocket.
Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers
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| Legion 4 | 18 Jul 2022 3:35 p.m. PST |
Can NATO get enough of HIMARS and M270s on the ground to give the Ukraine a better chance of dealing with the Russian FA, among other things? |
| williamb | 19 Jul 2022 6:35 a.m. PST |
Druzhina, I checked the source I was using and noticed that 300km range was part of a mixed description that included the 92km range for the M31 which is about 15-30% longer than the M30 |
| Druzhina | 21 Jul 2022 1:17 a.m. PST |
mobile communication system "Redut-2US".
larger imageLocated near the bridge over the lock of the dam at Nova Kakhoka, Kherson Oblast.
larger imageThe vehicle was moved after it was hit, but parabolic dishes remain in the debris. Benjamin Pittet, July 19, 2022. ===
Destroyed Russian 48Ya6-K1 "Podlet K1" radar, in Lazurne, Kherson Oblast. Recently entering service, the Podlet K1 was designed to detect hostile targets flying at low-altitude, provide early warning and support Russian advanced air-defense systems, such as the S-400.
OSINTtechnical, July 20, 2022.
the whole Podlet-K1 system, including a command vehicle and an electric generator both on KAMAZ chassis were destroyed. Ukraine Weapons Tracker
Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers
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| Druzhina | 22 Jul 2022 2:46 p.m. PST |
US NatSec advisor Jake Sullivan: We are not prepared to provide Ukraine with long-range missiles, ATACMS with a range of 300 km. Our key goal is to support and defend Ukraine, and another key goal is to ensure that we're not heading down the road toward a 3rd World war. OstapYarysh. Journalist and anchor at the Ukrainian service of VOANews. July 23, 2022.
Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers
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| Legion 4 | 23 Jul 2022 11:34 a.m. PST |
From the reports I heard the HIMARS have been very effective. But they don't have enough of them. |
