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"Spanish army of Joseph Bonaparte?" Topic


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79thPA Supporting Member of TMP12 Jul 2022 7:51 a.m. PST

There doesn't seem to be a whole lot in English about this army on the internet. Did they serve in the field alongside French/French allies, were they spread around the country as garrison units, or something else?

nickinsomerset12 Jul 2022 8:09 a.m. PST

And what were their uniforms?!

Tally Ho!

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP12 Jul 2022 8:41 a.m. PST

There isn't a lot on them because they were a joke--and calling them an army is probably stretching a point.

There were the elements of La Romana's forces the Royal Navy was unable to evacuate, reorganized as an auxiliary regiment of the French Army--until Russia. They're never south of the Pyrenees.

There are some counter-guerilla forces with the French Army of the South--possibly 5,000 in tiny detachments, and I doubt many were regulars of any description. Skirmish games only.

There are about 2,500 POWs and conscripts in and around Madrid who haven't had an opportunity to desert yet, together with a largely French "Royal Guard" of similar size. The Guard shows up--though of course it does not fight--at Talavera, and both of them at Vittoria. Remember the Royal Guard is the only thing keeping "King" Joseph alive, and it and the miniature army of juramentados are the only troops he is consistently allowed to command. Find Joseph and you'll find his Quisling army.

Camcleod12 Jul 2022 9:06 a.m. PST

Regiment Joseph Napoleon served with the main army in Germany in 1813. Not sure how good they were but the white coat with green facings looks spiffy.
link

MightyOwl12 Jul 2022 10:14 a.m. PST

As Robert said the Royal Guard was the only really reliable part of the army and was present at Talavera, Almonacid, Ocana and Vitoria. The rest did see some fighting against the guerrillas especially against the forces of El Empecinado that operated south and east of Madrid.

Many units suffered from desertion as they were formed from POWs captured at Ucles, Almonacid and Ocana, who often took French rations and equipment and then deserted back to the Spanish.

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP12 Jul 2022 10:57 a.m. PST

Good information. So, other than maybe some skirmish games, it is not a true field force that a gamer needs to concern themselves with.

Florida Tory12 Jul 2022 10:59 a.m. PST

The Joseph Napoleon Regiment was a French foreign regiment. It was not part of Joseph's army.

You are right that there isn't much material in English. However, I purchased a Spanish book a year or so ago that is quite comprehensive. I'll look up the title and post it later.

Rick

PeloBourbon12 Jul 2022 11:16 a.m. PST

Hi 79thPA,

For the uniforms you can find probably some information here:
link

Alberto

Florida Tory12 Jul 2022 12:15 p.m. PST

Update: I am referring to the same book mentioned by PeloBourbon above and MightyOwl in another three:

TMP link

The book pretty much covers Joseph"s entire army, including the anti-guerilla forces and civic guards, in 498 pages. It also states roster strengths for various units at different times.

Rick

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP12 Jul 2022 1:05 p.m. PST

Drat. Missed Almonacid and Ocana. Sorry. But you're right, 79th. For certain specific battles, you'd need them for an exact recreation, but you could spend many long happy years refighting the Peninsular War and not feel the lack.

As for the Joseph Napoleon Regiment, yes, functionally they were a foreign regiment in French service. But legally they were supposed to be Joseph's. They were, after all, Spanish regulars and Napoleon insisted that his brother was King of Spain. As the blog points out, Joseph wanted them in Spain for a cadre. The problem was that everyone except Joseph was sure that they'd desert as soon as they crossed the Pyrenees. The uniforms are spiffy, though.

Lilian12 Jul 2022 8:27 p.m. PST

El Ejército Josefino has been heavily neglected to not say occulted by the spanish historiography and so underestimated by the others french/english,
Luis Sorando Muzás's book covers a great gap

the regulars, civic guards, gendarmes, counter-guerrillas were quite numerous, e.g. c.1811 they concerned at least 64 624 men, missing data for the strenght in Northern Spain
José Napoleón's Guardias Cívicas in 1812 in Andalucia counted
1266 officers and 32686 men


IV. LOS ESTADOS MAYORES
IV.1. ESTADO MAYOR DEL EJÉRCITO
IV.2. ESTADOS MAYORES DE LAS PLAZAS
IV.3.- CONTADURIA DE GUERRA
V. INFANTERIA DE LA GUARDIA REAL
V.1.- COMPAÑÍA DE REALES GUARDIAS ALABARDEROS
V.2.- PRIMER REGIMIENTO DE LA GUARDIA REAL
V.3.- REGIMIENTOS 1º DE GRANADEROS Y 1º DE TIRADORES
V.4.- REGIMIENTO DE FUSILEROS
VI.- CABALLERIA DE LA GUARDIA REAL
VI.1.- REGIMIENTO DE CHEVAU-LEGERS DE LA GUARDIA
VI.2.- COMPAÑÍA DE GUÍAS DE LA GUARDIA
VI.3.- REGIMIENTO DE HÚSARES DE LA GUARDIA
VI.4.- COMPAÑÍA DE VÉLITES DE LA GUARDIA
VI.5.- COMPAÑÍA DE GENDARMES DE ÉLITE DE LA GUARDIA
VI.6- REGIMIENTO DE MOSQUETEROS REALES
VI.7.- GUARDIAS DE HONOR
VI.7.1.- GUARDIA DE HONOR DE BURGOS
VI.7.2.- GUARDIA DE HONOR DE SEVILLA
VI.7.3.- GUARDIA DE HONOR DE MÁLAGA
VI.7.4.- GUARDIA DE HONOR DE GRANADA
VI.7.5.- GUARDIA DE HONOR DE MADRID
VII.-ARTILLERIA DE LA GUARDIA REAL:
VII.1.- COMPAÑÍAS A PIÉ, A CABALLO Y DE TREN
VIII.- INGENIEROS DE LA GUARDIA REAL
VIII.1.- COMPAÑÍA DE ZAPADORES DE LA GUARDIA REAL
IX.- INFANTERÍA DE LÍNEA ESPAÑOLA
IX.1.-REGIMIENTO MADRID Nº 1
IX.2.- REGIMIENTO TOLEDO Nº 2
IX.3.- REGIMIENTO SEVILLA Nº 3
IX.4.- REGIMIENTO SORIA Nº 4
IX.5.- REGIMIENTO GRANADA Nº 5
IX.6.- REGIMIENTO MÁLAGA Nº 6.-
IX.7.- REGIMIENTO CÓRDOBA Nº 7
IX.8.- REGIMIENTO JAEN Nº 8
IX.9.- REGIMIENTO INFANTES Nº 9
IX.10.- REGIMIENTO CIUDAD REAL Nº 10
IX.11.- REGIMIENTO ALCAZAR DE SAN JUAN Nº 11
IX.12.- REGIMIENTO TOLEDO Nº 12
X.- INFANTERIA DE LINEA OTROS CUERPOS
X.1.- LEGIÓN ESPAÑOLA
X.2.- BATALLON DE VOLUNTARIOS ESPAÑOLES
XI.- INFANTERÍA DE LÍNEA EXTRANJERA
XI.1.- REGIMIENTO DE REDING EL JOVEN
XI.2.- REGIMIENTO 1º DE SUIZOS
XI.3.- REGIMIENTO REAL IRLANDÉS
XI.4.- REGIMIENTO REAL – EXTRANGERO
XII.- INFANTERÍA LIGERA
XII.1.-PRIMER BATALLÓN DE INFANTERÍA LIGERA DE ESPAÑA
XII.2.- 1 ER. REGIMIENTO CASTILLA
XII.3.- 2º REGIMIENTO MURCIA
XII.4.- BATALLON 1º DE BADAJOZ
XIII.- CABALLERIA
XIII.1.- 1 ER. REGIMIENTO DE CAZADORES A CABALLO
XIII.2.- 2.º REGIMIENTO DE CAZADORES A CABALLO
XIII.3.- 3.º REGIMIENTO DE CAZADORES A CABALLO
XIII.4.- 4.º REGIMIENTO DE CAZADORES A CABALLO
XIII.5.- 1.ER REGIMIENTO DE LANCEROS ESPAÑOLES
XIV.- ARTILLERIA
XIV.1.- PRIMER BATALLÓN DE ARTILLERÍA
XIV.2.- 2º BATALLÓN DE ARTILLERÍA
XIV.3.- COMPAÑÍA FIJA DE ARTILLERÍA DE SAN SEBASTIÁN
XIV.4.- COMPAÑÍA DE ARTILLEROS VETERANOS DE PAMPLONA
XIV.5.- COMPAÑÍA DE ARTILLERÍA FIJA DE MÁLAGA
XIV.6.- COMPAÑÍA FIJA ARTILLERÍA GUARDA COSTA DE ALMERÍA
XIV.7.-ESCUELA DE ARTILLERÍA DE SEVILLA
XIV.8.- 1ª COMPAÑÍA DEL TREN DE ARTILLERÍA
XV. INGENIEROS
XV.1.- REAL CUERPO DE INGENIEROS
XV.2.- COMPAÑÍAS DE ZAPADORES DEL CENTRO
XV.3.- COMPAÑÍA DE ZAPADORES DE SEVILLA
XV.4.- ACADEMIA DE INGENIEROS
XVI.- CUERPOS DE INVALIDOS
XVI.1.- Compañía de Inválidos hábiles de Fuenterrabía
XVI.2.- Compañía de Inválidos hábiles de Badajoz
XVI.3.- Compañía de Inválidos hábiles de Granada
XVI.4.- Cuerpo de Inválidos hábiles de Madrid.
XVI.5.- Compañía de Inválidos hábiles de Pamplona
XVI.6.- Compañía de Inválidos Artilleros de Pamplona
XVI.7.- Cuerpo de Inválidos inhábiles de Sevilla
XVII. CUERPOS DE SEGURIDAD
XVII.1.- COMPAÑÍAS DE GENDARMES
XVII.1.1.- Gendarmería Real de Madrid
XVII.1.2.- Gendarmería Real de Sevilla
XVII.1.3.- Gendarmes de Granada
XVII.2.- OTROS CUERPOS POLICIALES
XVII.2.1.- Policía de Madrid
XVII.2.2.- Partida agentes montados Policía de Córdoba
XVII.2.3.-Brigada de dependientes de la Prefectura de Sevilla
XVII.2.4.- Policía de Barcelona
XVII.2.5.- Policía de Zaragoza
XVIII. LOS CUERPOS FRANCOS
XVIII.1- CAZADORES DE MONTAÑA, DE LA COSTA Y ESCOPETEROS
XVIII.1.1.- Ejército del Centro
XVIII.1.1.1.- Cía. Franca de Infantería de Almadén
XVIII.1.1.2.- Escuadrón Franco de Caballería de Ávila
XVIII.1.1.3.- Cía. Franca de Caballería de Cuenca
XVIII.1.1.4.- Cía. Franca de Caballería de Extremadura
XVIII.1.1.5.- Escuadrón Franco de Caballería de Guadalajara
XVIII.1.1.6.- Cía. Franca de Infantería de Guadalajara
XVIII.1.1.7.- Cía. Franca de Húsares de Guadalajara
XVIII.1.1.8.- Cía. Franca de Caballería de Madrid
XVIII.1.1.9.- Cía. Franca de Caballería de la Mancha
XVIII.1.1.10.- Cía. Franca de Infantería de la Mancha
XVIII.1.1.11.- Cías. Francas de Segovia
XVIII.1.1.12.- Cías. Francas de Soria
XVIII.1.1.13.- Cía. Franca de Caballería de Toledo
XVIII.1.2.- Ejército del Mediodía
XVIII.1.2.1.- Cía. de Cazadores de la Costa de Adra
XVIII.1.2.2.- Cías. de Cazadores de Montaña de Alcalá la Real
XVIII.1.2.3.-Cía. de Cazadores de Montaña de Alcaudete.
XVIII.1.2.4.-Cía. de Cazadores de Montaña de Almería
XVIII.1.2.5.- Cía. de Cazadores de la Costa de Almuñecar
XVIII.1.2.6.-Cía. de Cazadores de Montaña de la Alpujarra
XVIII.1.2.7.-Cía. de Cazadores de Montaña de Andujar
XVIII.1.2.8.-Cías. de Cazadores de Montaña de Antequera.
XVIII.1.2.9.-Cía. de Cazadores de Montaña de Badajoz
XVIII.1.2.10.-Cazadores de Montaña de Baena
XVIII.1.2.11.- Cía.. de Cazadores de Montaña de Berja
XVIII.1.2.12.- Cía. de Caballería de Escopeteros de Bujalance
XVIII.1.2.13.- Cía. de Escopeteros de Cabra
XVIII.1.2.14.- Escuadrón de Cazadores de Montaña de Carmona
XVIII.1.2.15.- Cía. Mixta de Escopeteros de Coín
XVIII.1.2.16.- Cía. de Caballería de Escopeteros de Colmenar
XVIII.1.2.17.- Cía.. de Cazadores de Montaña de Córdoba
XVIII.1.2.18.- Bon. Mixto de Cazadores de Montaña de Córdoba,
XVIII.1.2.19.- Cías. Mixtas de Cazadores de Montaña de Ecija
XVIII.1.2.20.- Cías. Mixtas de Cazadores de Montaña de Granada
XVIII.1.2.21.-Cías. de Cazadores de Montaña del Guadalquivir
XVIII.1.2.22.- Cías. Mixtas de Cazadores de Montaña de Jaén
XVIII.1.2.23.- Cía. de Escopeteros de La Carolina.
XVIII.1.2.24.- Cía. de Escopeteros de La Rambla
XVIII.1.2.25.- Cía. de Caballería de Escopeteros de Loja
XVIII.1.2.26.- Cías. de Cazadores de Montaña de Lucena
XVIII.1.2.27.-Cía. Mixta de Cazadores de la Costa de Málaga
XVIII.1.2.28.- Cía. de Cazadores de Montaña de Martos
XVIII.1.2.29.- Cía. Mixta de Escopeteros de Montilla
XVIII.1.2.30.- Cía. Mixta de Cazadores de Montaña de Morón
XVIII.1.2.31.-Cía. mixta de Cazadores de Montaña de Motril
XVIII.1.2.32.- Cía. de Escopeteros de Olvera
XVIII.1.2.33.- Cía. Mixta de Cazadores de Montaña de Osuna
XVIII.1.2.34.- Cía. Mixta de Cazadores de Montaña de Ronda
XVIII.1.2.35.- Escuadrón de Cazadores de Montaña de Sevilla
XVIII.1.2.36.- Cías. de Infantería de Escopeteros de Sevilla
XVIII.1.2.37.- Cía. de Caballería de Escopeteros de Torrox
XVIII.1.2.38.- Cías. de Cazadores de Montaña de Ubeda y Baeza
XVIII.1.2.39.- Cía. de Caballería de Escopeteros de Ugijar
XVIII.1.2.40.- Cía. de Escopeteros de la Vega de Archidona
XVIII.1.2.41.- Cía. Mixta de Escopeteros de Vélez Málaga
XVIII.2- LOS GUÍAS
XVIII.2.1.- Cía. de Guías de Córdoba
XVIII.2.2.- Cía. de Guías de Estepa
XVIII.2.3.- Guías del Guadiana
XVIII.2.4.- Compañía de Guías de la Prefectura de Jaén
XVIII.2.5.- Cia. de Guías de la Prefectura de Jerez
XVIII.2.6.- Cía. Guias de la Prefectura de Málaga
XVIII.2.7.- Cía. de Guías de la Prefectura de Sevilla
XVIII.2.8.- Cía. de Guías de Sierra Morena
XVIII.2.9.- Cia. Guias de Vélez-Málaga
XVIII.3.- OTRAS PARTIDAS Y CUERPOS FRANCOS
XIX.- GUARDIAS Y MILICIAS CÍVICAS
XIX.1.-PRIMEROS INTENTOS
XIX.2.-LAS CÍVICAS ANDALUZAS
XIX.3.-LAS CÍVICAS DEL CENTRO
XIX.4.- LAS CÍVICAS DE LOS GOBIERNOS PARTICULARES
XX.- GOBIERNOS PARTICULARES
XX.1.- 1 er GOBIERNO CATALUÑA
XX.1.1.- Regimiento de Joseph I
XX.1.2.- Guardia Nacional de Barcelona
XX.1.3.- Compañía Municipal de Barcelona
XX.1.4.- Guardia de Miqueletes o Nacionales
XX.1.5.- Compañías de Gendarmes Catalanes
XX.1.6.- Compañía de Guías Catalanes
XX.1.7.- Compañía de Gendarmes Españoles
XX.1.8.- Compañía de Partidarios
XX.1.9.- Primera Compañía de Miqueletes, de Besalú
XX.1.10.- Segunda Compañía de Miqueletes, de Santa Coloma
XX.1.11.- Compañías de Cazadores del Ampurdán y de Gerona
XX.1.12.- Compañía de Cazadores Distinguidos de Mataro
XX.I.13.- Cazadores de Barcelona
XX.1.14.- Zapadores Reales Españoles
XX.1.15.- Policía de Barcelona
XX.2.- 2º GOBIERNO ARAGÓN
XX.2.1.-Gendarmes, Fusileros y Cazadores Aragoneses
XX.2.2.- Guardias Cívicas
XX.2.3.- Guardia de Honor de Caspe
XX.2.4.- Aduaneros de Aragón
XX.2.5.- Policía de Zaragoza
XX.2.6.- Contaduría de Aragón
XX.3.- 3 er GOBIERNO NAVARRA
XX.3.2.- Compañía de Miqueletes de Navarra
XX.3.3.- Gendarmes navarros
XX.3.4.- Compañía de Veteranos de Pamplona
XX.3.4.- Guardias Cívicas y Nacionales
XX.4.- 4º GOBIERNO VIZCAYA
XX.4.1.- Miqueletes
XX.4.2.- Los Gendarmes Cántabros
XX.4.3.- Guarda Costas Nacionales
XX.4.4.- Compañías Francas Cántabras
XX.4.5.- Guardia Nacional
XX.5.- 5º GOBIERNO BURGOS
XX.5.1.- Guardia Nacional y Cívica
XX.6.- 6º GOBIERNO VALLADOLID
XX.6.1.- Compañía Franca de Cazadores de Zamora
XX.6.2.- Compañía Franca de Cazadores de Castilla
XX.6.3.- Compañía Franca de Cazadores de León
XX.6.4.- Gendarmes de Castilla
XX.6.5.- Cazadores a Caballo de Valladolid
XX.6.6.- Guardias Cívicas
XX.7.- 7º GOBIERNO SALAMANCA
XX.7.1.- Escuadrón de Cazadores de Montaña de Salamanca
XX.7.2.- Guardia Cívica de Salamanca
XX.8.- PROVINCIA DE VALENCIA
XX.8.1.- Compañía de Guías de Valencia
XX.8.2.- Compañía de Fusileros de Valencia
XX.8.3.- Compañía de Cazadores de Peñíscola
XX.8.4.- Guardia Nacional
XX.8.5.- Aduaneros de Valencia


Spanish units in the French Army

XXI.- REGIMIENTOS DE LA GRANDE ARMÉE
XXI.1.- REGIMIENTO JOSÉ NAPOLEÓN
XXI.2.- REGIMIENTO CATALUÑA
XXI.3.- BATALLÓN DE ZAPADORES ESPAÑOLES
XXI.4.- COMPAÑÍA DE PIONEROS ESPAÑOLES
XXI.5.- BATALLON DE PIONEROS ESPAÑOLES
XXI.6.- REGIMIENTO DE PIONEROS ESPAÑOLES
XXI.7.- REGIMIENTO 6º EXTRANJERO
XXI.8.- BATALLONES DE OBREROS ESPAÑOLES
these last ones were actaully only "Battalions of Prisoners" under Civil and military Engineer Ponts & Chaussés





robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP13 Jul 2022 2:37 a.m. PST

And if I counted beat cops, the border patrol and the coast guard, the US military would be substantially larger. But when Bonapartist Spain was fighting for its life, somehow there were only those 5,000 men on the battlefield at Vitoria, many of them French.

Lilian13 Jul 2022 5:11 a.m. PST

I don't understand at all such inadequat and anachronistic comparison with US organisations, first because I am not sure about their military status except the Coast Guard maybe, only a naval force,
second because curiouly nobody would substract units of the same kind National Guards, militias, partisans and volunteers units, free corps when they concern others countries/armies beginning by the other side in Spain with 50 shades of armed men from robbers, outlaws and highwaymen to partisans and organized soldiers

The Josefinas units were not limited to the regular army, there were also locally-raised units to defend their homeland against their fellow countrymen of the guerrillas, the Peninsular War was also the first great Spanish civil war of the 19th century before 1821-1823 and the others Carlistas Wars, several thousand of these men serving the Josefina cause crossed the border in 1814 to take refuge in France

Trockledockle13 Jul 2022 11:38 a.m. PST

Here's a wargamer who put together Joseph's army with some comments on sources.

link

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP13 Jul 2022 2:16 p.m. PST

Sorry, Lilian. I usually stick to Anglophone analogies to avoid having to spell, say, douaniers. My point was that not everyone with a uniform and a weapon is part of a military force. The New York Police Department is in excess of 35,000 in uniform, but that does not give the Mayor of New York an Army Corps. You'll notice I did not include the National Guard, which is a military force--sort of. (I was 11 years Air Guard.)

But I understood 79th PA to be looking for an analogue to the other satellite kingdom armies--maneuver forces comparable to the armies of Naples, the Kingdom of Italy, Holland or Westphalia, and it was the second time the question had arisen in a few days. If you looked only at uniform guides, you could tell yourself Joseph commanded such an army. All those regimental numbers and facings promote the illusion. It's narrative histories, orders of battle and day states that show Bonapartist Spain to have a maneuver force with fewer native soldiers than Kleve-Berg.

As for Bonaparte's invasion as a civil war, we'll have to disagree. Any occupying army can get some local support--and any number of careerist generals and bureaucrats. A real civil war requires tough, proud units on both sides who, paraphrasing Cromwell in one such, "know what they fight for and love what they know." Spain's real civil wars produced such units in plenty. I have tremendous respect for the Spanish armies which resisted the 1808 invasion--poorly paid, poorly fed, inadequately trained and armed, but always ready to rally and try again. I see no equivalent units marching out of Madrid to uphold Joseph's monarchy, and not a single regiment outside the capital accepted Joseph as king.

Yes, of course thousands of his supporters fled with the French army. If I sided with a foreign invader, I'd be first across the border when the invader lost. But it's at least an order of magnitude low. In a real civil war, the numbers would have been in the tens or hundreds of thousands. Take a look at 1938-39. It takes more than a few intellectuals in a coffeehouse telling themselves that THIS hereditary monarch is going to be different to make a civil war.

I now return us to our previously scheduled toy soldiers.

Personal logo Whirlwind Supporting Member of TMP13 Jul 2022 8:54 p.m. PST

If you are into Ospreys, they are in the third volume of the Spanish Army of the Napoleonic Wars set: link

It has enough uniform information to paint most of the units from.

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP14 Jul 2022 10:17 a.m. PST

That book by Muzas looks quite interesting.

That is the one Osprey that I don't have on the Spanish…

I will have to give this some more thought. There is so much variety in the Peninsula. I consider the French to be quite boring and much prefer all of their major and minor allies.

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP15 Jul 2022 10:39 a.m. PST

The other nice thing about the Peninsula is smaller battles that are more infantry centric. You just don't see the masses of cavalry you do elsewhere.

The Spanish army is gorgeous!

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