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"UK Army chief issues Russia rallying cry" Topic


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42flanker19 Jun 2022 11:57 p.m. PST

"The new head of the British Army has issued a rallying cry to troops – telling them they need to be ready to face Russia on the battlefield."

But let's hope not wearing desert uniforms superseded twelve years ago. Keep up, BBC.

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61858476

nickinsomerset20 Jun 2022 7:41 a.m. PST

We have got rid of most of our MBTs and CVR(T) fleet and replaced them with open top, suitable for Afghanistan vehicles that are not fit for purpose in Europe,

Tally Ho!

Legion 420 Jun 2022 11:50 a.m. PST

Well let's hope that is just saber rattling … Which I'm pretty sure it was. Most NATO militaries are in no condition to go to war at this time.

smithsco20 Jun 2022 6:51 p.m. PST

Yeah NATO isn't scary unless you have an AK-47, no SAMs and live in a dirt poor region. Then you should be terrified.

Poland can defend itself. I still believe in a conventional conflict especially incorporating what the world is learning in Ukraine that US ground forces could kick the crap out of anybody. Wouldn't trust anyone else in the alliance to take the fight to the enemy.

Legion 421 Jun 2022 10:30 a.m. PST

US ground forces could kick the crap out of anybody.
I hope so, but they may be in a rebuilding process like after the Vietnam War. However the US Military is smaller now and all professionals/volunteers. Many with at least some combat experience in 20 + years of war in Iraq, Syria & A'stan, etc. Albeit it was COIN not Conventional. Generally at a tactical level a firefight can be "ubiquitous" per se.

We do see the Russian's NCO Corps does not appear that capable. And the Russians have not shown the ability to fight combined arms modern mobile maneuver warfare. So they appear to fall back on their predilection for use of massive amounts of FA. Then fighting a war of attrition. With dwindling Infantry forces and armor.

My concern the US Military, at least for the Army, is not concentrating as much as they should on warfighting skills from what I could see ? Reports of time being wasted on woke topics, CRT/1619, transgender concepts, etc., etc. West Point is now being referred to a "Woke Point" if the report I just saw on the news is correct. And I believe it is. Albeit West Point only makes up about 15%(?) of the Officer Corps. The vast remainder is ROTC, as I was, a long time ago , '75-'79. old fart Then Active Duty '79-'90, USAR '91.

My experience as a Rifle Plt Ldr then later Mech Co Cdr. Tells me any time generally not used on War Fighter skills is a waste of time and money. I hope I am wrong …

Tortorella Supporting Member of TMP21 Jun 2022 1:00 p.m. PST

I think there are issues there Legion.

It would be really helpful if some sort of objective, transparent review of the curriculum could be done. We want to know how much of the new content is relevant. I have my doubts about much of it, but I don't know the evidence. Unfortunately, even the most stringent review will be subject to attack.

I also want officers who understand the concepts, free of bias. There's Woke and then there's Asleep, which still dominates. As the military evolves as a multicultural force, leaders need to get the most out of every soldier. That is what any training along these lines should be for. If not, it's in the way of the mission… IMO.

Heedless Horseman21 Jun 2022 7:09 p.m. PST

About B****y Time UK starts to 'give ourselves a shake' and recognise that 'things' have changed… not for the better.

We do not need 'patrol vehicles' or Special Ops 'Go-Carts'… combat survivable APCs and some MBT /Arty support. And light vehicles that can be 'fixed' with a Hammer… not a 'Diagnostic'.

Dn Jackson Supporting Member of TMP22 Jun 2022 3:38 a.m. PST

"As the military evolves as a multicultural force,…"

On this I have to disagree with you Tortorella. The last thing the military needs to be is 'multicultural'. They need to be monocultural. And that culture needs to be that of the warfighter, no matter what the individual soldier's background is.

When I was in the Marine Corps the saying was; 'There are no black Marines, there are no white Marines, there are only green Marines. Some are light green, some are dark green, all are Marines first.'

Tortorella Supporting Member of TMP22 Jun 2022 5:43 a.m. PST

I agree with you Dn. By multicultural, I meant a force composed of soldiers from a wide variety of races, ethnicities and their cultures representing American demographics.

IMO, an effective, skilled leader, from any race or culture, needs to have some understanding of the multicultural backgrounds of recruits. The purpose is better success in communicating the training and skills to ensure a cohesive force that best serves the mission. This becomes the culture of the force.

I did not mean to imply that the military becomes a kumbaya celebration of diversity. It is far beyond that in the singular purpose of its mission to defend the United States and it's interests.

Legion 422 Jun 2022 7:33 a.m. PST

I think there are issues there Legion.
Yes there are … #1 Get rid of the Woke, etc. crap. Can never imagine in an all volunteer force that is such a waste of time that takes away from training for war. They need to be trained that the only color in the Army is camo. Anything else only goes to divide us. More than we already are. If the volunteer can't deal with it, they can find a new job in the civilian world.

And bottom line All Lives Matter. Unless the enemies' that are trying to kill you and you comrades/soldiers. They are only targets to be serviced with extreme prejudice. That is the way it is done on a tactical level. That is the way I was taught with many of my NCOs and senior officers have a couple of tours in Vietnam.

I also want officers who understand the concepts, free of bias.
That is something that is already present before they become officers. If they have bias, they need to put that aside or change. To suit their current job, mission. If you are biased in anyway, your fellow officers will generally pick up on that as well as your NCOs. I didn't run into that IIRC anytime in the Army. If so it was insignificant. The worse thing you could be in the Army was being lazy and not pulling you own weight. At lease that was my experience.

Dn Jackson +1

IMO, an effective, skilled leader, from any race or culture, needs to have some understanding of the multicultural backgrounds of recruits.
Yes, you should have a general idea of who your troops are. But that should be a sidebar with being a good soldier. You job is to train, lead, etc. an efficient fighting force. That is your priority.

I did not mean to imply that the military becomes a kumbaya celebration of diversity.
Diversity should only come into play based on the weapons in your Fire Tms & Squads as listed in the TO&Es. E.g. the number of rifles, MGs, GLs etc. Does not matter the race, religion, etc., of those troops packing those weapons. The only thing that really counts can those in the Fire Tms & Squads can effectively use those weapons. To execute war fighting skills.

We do not need 'patrol vehicles' or Special Ops 'Go-Carts'… combat survivable APCs and some MBT /Arty support.
Then what do your combat forces go to war with ? Infantry, some in APCs/IFVs, MBTs, FA, Gunships & CAS is how we fight wars. The Ukraine is a good example. The Russians don't know how to fight combined arms, even though they have the assets to do that. The Ukraine seems to understand how to fight a war will all those assets I listed.

So again … how do you fight a war without a mix of Infantry- Mech & Light, AFVs of all types, FA, Gunships & CAs ?

Tortorella Supporting Member of TMP22 Jun 2022 9:49 a.m. PST

I still think we are saying more or less the same thing about some of this. You have 1.3 million people to get fully focused on their jobs and the mission. They need to be as good as you can make them, getting the best out of every soldier.

Per a DOD goal: "to increase the combat readiness of the Army by improving understanding and communication through the development of an Infantry officer corps that is representative of the soldiers they lead."

I don't know about this, I look for merit in leaders first, not demographics. Will this work to improve communications, respect? No team without respect. But that comes from doing your job well, IMO. You said the same thing, I think.

In my line of work, long ago, I learned multiculturalism on the street. It enhanced my communication skills, made me do a better job, not shoot myself in the foot. You cannot afford to be Asleep. Communication can save a life, maybe yours.

That's what I am trying to say. IMO, the Army needs to justify any related training by tying it directly to better outcomes related to the mission. Proven by data preferrably. Otherwise, don't waste everyone's time.

Dn Jackson Supporting Member of TMP23 Jun 2022 3:39 a.m. PST

Torterella, I think we have the same goal. My point is that our military needs to strip everyone of their individualism and rebuild them as part of a team, within certain limits, (i.e. Sikhs keep their turbans, etc.) Unfortunately our military is going in the wrong direction. I just watched a Navy training video on how to address people by 'their' pronouns. Putting aside the fact that that is not how pronouns work, you can't have a cohesive fighting force when you spend time on things that divide us the way that does.

Tortorella Supporting Member of TMP23 Jun 2022 6:27 a.m. PST

Yikes! Exactly what we do not want. If anything in the Woke world reduces effective communication it's the pronoun thing. Since you would never use this concept in the field, why train on it?

You are right on the money about within certain limits. I had no idea the military would actually adopt the pronoun thing as a policy. I have changed my mind on the whole thing…

Legion 423 Jun 2022 9:20 a.m. PST

I still think we are saying more or less the same thing about some of this.
Generally I agree … as well as with Dn Jackson …

All I am concerned about combat readiness and warfighting skills. Maybe I'm just too old … old fart

Heedless Horseman23 Jun 2022 7:30 p.m. PST

UK Procurement has been aimed at providing vehicles for patrolling Desert areas of insurgency. OK… maybe needed… but at budget cost for 'WAR' AFVs, etc. UK maybe 'starting' to recognise that World Has Changed… again… as it does.

UK forces did pretty well in Afghanistan, considering… but a possible conflict with Russia needs different kit.

Dn Jackson Supporting Member of TMP24 Jun 2022 12:07 a.m. PST

What's the old saying? 'Generals are always preparing to fight the last war.'

Tortorella Supporting Member of TMP24 Jun 2022 5:52 a.m. PST

Legion, I know you are right from one perspective, probably the most important one.

How leaders are developing doctrine for the next set of challenges, such as war in the Pacific, is another piece of the future. All training should relate to the mission somehow. That includes planning and execution. IMO. My worry is that we lose cohesion with too much distraction.

ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa24 Jun 2022 7:23 a.m. PST

What's the old saying? 'Generals are always preparing to fight the last war.'

What's interesting about this is that, at least on the Russian side, they appear to be in part fighting a war that never even happened (and planned to do with huge resources they no longer have).

dapeters24 Jun 2022 12:04 p.m. PST

" 'There are no black Marines, there are no white Marines, there are only green Marines. Some are light green, some are dark green, all are Marines first.'" Your not going to tell the punchline of this joke? I think I heard like 50 years ago.

Woke, Antifa and BLM are just read herrings, used by american born Oligarchs to divided us.

Legion 424 Jun 2022 12:07 p.m. PST

UK forces did pretty well in Afghanistan, considering… but a possible conflict with Russia needs different kit.
Of course, as DN pointed another case of fighting the last war … me thinks.

I guess I'd say, the UK needs to up its game to be able to fight a conventional conflict. E.g. like in the Ukraine. I know the US was prepped to fight both conventional & COIN, when I was on active duty, '79-'90 … old fart

I know you are right from one perspective, probably the most important one.
Yes from the POV of a Plt Ldr & Co. Cdr.

All training should relate to the mission somehow. That includes planning and execution. IMO. My worry is that we lose cohesion with too much distraction.
Yes, we train for a number of missions. Most good militaries do … or try. IMO the big distraction is bowing to political "whims", e.g. CRT, 1619, gender matters, etc., instead of … once again spending much of your time in prepping for war.

The US leadership has to remember its history. The USA went into 2 World Wars unprepared. Had to play catch up and find out again the learning curve was steep.

Tortorella Supporting Member of TMP24 Jun 2022 7:22 p.m. PST

We have a very long history of maintaining a small standing army in peacetime and getting caught unprepared.

The pronoun training thing threw me. I was hoping that, since we are concerned here about socialization type training but don't really have any documentation of the extent, that maybe it was a minor issue. Now I am not so sure.

While we still can't document how much capability has been degraded by irrelevant training, I would still not bet against us vs. any other nation's force. I am guessing the Russian and Chinese spend plenty of time on political training. Maybe that explains the lame performance in Ukraine. These armies also have large cadres of political officers as I understand it, and this does not likely do much for combat readiness. I don't know much about any of this. The Chinese may have a lot of soldiers, but they have no experience are are part of a highly politicized society. I don't know how good they are.

Heedless Horseman24 Jun 2022 10:40 p.m. PST

UK has had TWO BEF's… both very well trained and equipped'… but SMALL. Unable to do much except delay. BAOR, much bigger…but same. Now, very little Force… except for 'Police Actions' in far flung corners.

Britain has a History of 'getting Our A***s Kicked'… THEN getting Annoyed! Bit late… should NOT have been in that position! lol.

Bu… then… We had a whole lot of Nations to call upon.

'Someone Else' wanted to be 'Top Dog'… but They are Now also getting 'Tired of it'. Got to get along… but other Dogs are getting too snappy for comfort.

GB are Still There… just not very much on hand.

ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa25 Jun 2022 3:42 a.m. PST

@Heedless,
Frankly I think you could make a good argument that Britain's tendency for small professional armies (expeditionary almost be default because our geography) dates from well before 19thC. Whether or not the political opinion in the Early Modern that a professional army was one step from tyranny had any bearing on that tendency towards small and professional I don't know.

Clearly we have some current problems with what our military is there to do and how its equipped to do. And some really long standing issues with procurement. I do find the suggestion that the UK military may take up to a decade to make good our stockpiles after passing equipment to Ukraine. But short of us needing to go toe to toe with the PLA a week on Monday we are probably not in a bad situation.

I think a lot of Western militaries have a rather broad range of problems might be described as 'recruitment issues'. How or why 'diversity training' interacts with that I don't know. If its truly needed for operational effectiveness, rather than than 2-hour, box checked, training session then your society's got issues that the military probably shouldn't be having to address and almost certainly isn't going to fix.

Legion 425 Jun 2022 9:22 a.m. PST

We have a very long history of maintaining a small standing army in peacetime and getting caught unprepared.
And regardless of who is in power in DC, this should never be forgotten.

While we still can't document how much capability has been degraded by irrelevant training, I would still not bet against us vs. any other nation's force.
Well we see that would be true vs Russia. They are fighting not the last war but one or two behind that. The PRC's numbers could be telling. But frankly I don't think they'd perform much better than Russia. But again never underestimate your enemy, e.g. like Putin did with the Ukrainian Forces…

However, again I think the US, e.g. "Woke Point" is wasting time on irrelevant non-military soft topics & training. If you have to be told the nation you took an oath to defend is racist, xenophobic, etc. Then there is something wrong. And it starts at the very top.

GB are Still There… just not very much on hand.
I know IMO I would have been very glad to served along side the US's #1 ally … the UK. They always show up and do their duty. But as we know they should bring more to the table/NATO. And hopefully they are trying to remedy that. Either way we'll stand beside them, IMO.

Druzhina25 Jun 2022 3:50 p.m. PST

the US's #1 ally … the UK. They always show up and do their duty.

Where were they in Vietnam? There is only one ally that can be claimed to 'always show up'.


Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

Heedless Horseman25 Jun 2022 7:05 p.m. PST

"Where were they in Vietnam?'."

UK…More Sense! And that was Harold Wilson… an idiot… but subject to popular opinion of the time.

Brits HAD been there, post WW2… but by 60s, SE Asia was a bad place to be… and no 'Empire' left to defend.

Aussies made their own choice… THEIR Sphere. 'Good On Yer!' Respect for Forces.

I 'think' 'some SAS' 'May' have been emdedded with Aus forces.. but we will probably never know for sure.

US Administration would, no doubt, have 'welcomed' UK, Publicly… but it Was a US war… and Direct UK involvement would NOT have made any difference and introduced 'complications' on a tactical level. Best left off.

Heedless Horseman25 Jun 2022 8:00 p.m. PST

WPBTS.
Professional Army has always been a function of 'Rule'… whether core 'Warband', 'Guard' or 'Armies'…. since before records.
'Tyrnany'?… ok… been around for LONG time!

What IS clear, is that UK NEEDS to 'beef up' Armed Forces'. What We have now, is nowhere near adequate for a situation that has VASTLY changed in last 5 years.

UK is VERY much weaker than in 1930s… with an Empire/Commonwealth to draw upon.

UK will try to punch 'above weight'… if needed… but… WE have to commit…. and I cannot see 'populace' doing that, now. Different Generation to Mine. Sad… and Worried.

dapeters27 Jun 2022 12:32 p.m. PST

'We have a very long history of maintaining a small standing army in peacetime and getting caught unprepared." That ended 12/7/41.

Tortorella Supporting Member of TMP27 Jun 2022 1:29 p.m. PST

True enough da, but some might disagree. We are superior in most areas, but the world is changing and that means adapting to new missions and advancing tech. The worry is that social issues are weakening the military.

There is some thought that this will change in 2024, current leadership is weak and ill suited. Previous leadership was even weaker, IMO, with nonexistent historical perspective and modest grasp of policy details.

The challenge is to bring about generational change in command without losing historical awareness. It's hard to say where experienced generational leaders will come from, and whether it will be better informed about past mistakes and future needs. The military is a unique service area in that it's effectiveness is tied to a mono-cultural environment that is unaffected by politics.

Legion 427 Jun 2022 4:43 p.m. PST

Brits HAD been there, post WW2…
Yes they and Indian forces were the first to enter French Indochina to accept the IJF's surrender, etc. at wars end. They ended up fighting the Viet insurgents later known as the Viet Mihn and VC. The French eventually showed up and ran COIN, etc. Ops alongside the UK & Indian units. So yes they were there IIRC for about year or so, IIRC. Then the French fought COIN there until '54.

the but by 60s, SE Asia was a bad place to be… and no 'Empire' left to defend.
And it didn't get better for US/SEATO & the ROKs either. Until they all left in '72.

Aussies made their own choice… THEIR Sphere. 'Good On Yer!' Respect for Forces.
Yes, they performed above & beyond while in Vietnam.

I 'think' 'some SAS' 'May' have been emdedded with Aus forces.. but we will probably never know for sure.
Don't doubt it.

US Administration would, no doubt, have 'welcomed' UK, Publicly… but it Was a US war… and Direct UK involvement would NOT have made any difference and introduced 'complications' on a tactical level. Best left off.
Very true and there really was no reason that I know of that the UK should have been there in any numbers. IIRC, there were some UK advisors at US Higher HQ. At in the beginning of the war. With their successful COIN ops in Malaya, etc.

The worry is that social issues are weakening the military.
Very much so …

current leadership is weak and ill suited.
You are being too kind … IMO of course …

Previous leadership was even weaker, IMO,
I'm going to say I disagree. But that is nothing new on that topic …

Druzhina27 Jun 2022 11:40 p.m. PST

UK…More Sense!

I would prefer good sense. Australia just does "always shows up".

Just wondering if any of the Americans would have to ask "which ally is that?".


Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

Tortorella Supporting Member of TMP28 Jun 2022 4:48 a.m. PST

This article on the controversy on training is interesting because it suggests that some of the military curriculum changes seem to be coming from inside the military in response to discrimination. There is an imbalance re officers of color, among other things, and it's not realistic, when an organization is the size of a major city, to suggest that at least some white nationalism does not exist today.

Like "woke", "crt" was quickly made into a negative political term, but I have to say I don't know much about what it originally meant before politics redefined it. We were told what to think about it before we knew what it was.

The military is so different than civilian walks of life that I don't know how to address these issues and still keep cohesion intact. But not addressing them is also a threat to cohesion maybe. And maybe it's a question of proportional response getting out of whack. Pronouns!! How could this be a good idea?

link

dapeters28 Jun 2022 12:11 p.m. PST

"The worry is that social issues are weakening the military."

Given the rape crisis in the US military (of all kinds), I have to respectfully disagree.

Your "worry" is caused by folks deliberately the bang drum of division seeking to get us to fight amongst ourselves. Look at the folks who are saying these things, making mountains out of mole hills. If you ever watch RT news they seem to have a lot of overlap with another "news" source.

Legion 428 Jun 2022 2:14 p.m. PST

Just wondering if any of the Americans would have to ask "which ally is that?".
Most Americans don't know who we fought in the ACW. That being said, The UK, the "ANZACs" and Canucks being formerly part of the UK. Have generally always been alongside of the US. I think we believe since at one point we were part of UK, as was the ANZACs & Canucks. That may explain why we say the UK is our #1 Ally. We were all under the "Crown".

As for me old fart … I now remember serving alongside with troops from the UK and Canada, in one form or another. For at least a short time. Made a jump with a NZ SAS Officer too. They all seemed very capable. Very good at their jobs.


The military is so different than civilian walks of life
Yes, but I don't think some get that … It's not Sunday School Church Camp …

Given the rape crisis in the US military (of all kinds), I have to respectfully disagree.
I wouldn't say it is a crisis but yes this is a failure in leadership to start with. While I served 10+ years in the Infantry, I can only say I knew of maybe one case.

Of course, in 4 Infantry Bns. There were no females. In the one Mech Hvy Bde, CBT SPT Bn, I was assigned to, it was full of females. Maybe 1/4 or a little more. And I didn't hear of anything like that. That does not mean it did not happen. But I believe I would have been aware of it.

Regardless … my point is and always is. The US Military spends too much time on those topics coming down from the very top. That does not improve combat readiness. E.g. the USN pronoun training.

Again I base this all on my training & experience in my long-passed youth as an Infantry Officer. old fart Time should not be wasted on these topics, IMO. At the whims of a certain types of elected & appointed officials. The good thing about this is, generally much will change with the next round of leaders, and it does every 4-8 years. But we will have to wait and see.

Legion 428 Jun 2022 3:55 p.m. PST

I should have said the UK is our "oldest" ally … 💂‍♂️

Druzhina28 Jun 2022 6:04 p.m. PST

I should have said the UK is our "oldest" ally … 💂‍♂️

That would be France. Remember the Battle of Yorktown?


Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

Tortorella Supporting Member of TMP28 Jun 2022 8:34 p.m. PST

Da: the issue with Rt news featuring personalities from the "news" outlet you likely refer to is symptomatic of the danger of the division for profit business/political model. We need to leave it or face the DH, however.

Injustice… These types of concerns are not always managed successfully in the military, IMO. "Ham fisted attempts at diversity training" sounds more like it. The Senate member looking into this has also advocated using the military to put down domestic civil disturbances.

dapeters29 Jun 2022 12:52 p.m. PST

"division for profit business/political model" exactly and these forces have been doing this for more then hundred years in the US. Carrying on about "woke" is the latest attempt to divide.

The Rape Crises the military is not limited to Females victims.

Druzhina29 Jun 2022 2:37 p.m. PST

I should have said the UK is our "oldest" ally … 💂‍♂️

The UK is actually the oldest enemy. Then there was the war of 1812.


Australian and American troops dug in together during the Battle of Hamel

After the AWI did the USA every work closely with an ally before the Battle of Hamel (4 July 1918)?


Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

Legion 429 Jun 2022 5:50 p.m. PST

That would be France.
Yes, that is true, I don't want to insult the French. Vive' le France !!!!


Remember the Battle of Yorktown?
Yes, I actually was their in '82 … 1982 … Also saw the movie "The Patriot" years, later. Even wargamed a number of battles in the AWI in the past.

The UK is actually the oldest enemy. Then there was the war of 1812.
Yes, and they even burned down the WH …

Australian and American troops dug in together during the Battle of Hamel,
Tough looking lot …

After the AWI did the USA every work closely with an ally before the Battle of Hamel (4 July 1918)?
Can't think of one ? So I failed my USA history test given to me by someone who is not an American. The Shame ! frown < hangs head low … fade to black >

The Rape Crises the military is not limited to Females victims.
Yes that also well known. A leadership failure among other things. Again I never heard about rapes when I was on Active Duty back in the '80s. As I said I would have heard about it being Bn & Bde HQs.

Legion 430 Jun 2022 8:38 a.m. PST

Then there was the war of 1812.
Forgot to mention, "Old Hickory" Gen Andy Jackson, with the US 7th Rgt. of Infantry, other regulars, militia including American Indians[now called "Indigenous Peoples"], freed slaves["Freed Men of Color"], etc., etc., French Pirates, etc. in Jan. 1815 defeated the Brits. At the battle of New Orleans. The war was over, but it took time to get the word out from across the Atlantic.

In the '50s or early '60s there was even a popular song on the radio, about the Battle of New Orleans. link

Now they want to take down "Old Hickory's" statues down … frown

dapeters30 Jun 2022 1:25 p.m. PST

I had never heard of date rape until I was out of college. But my wife tells me it has always been a thing.

Legion 430 Jun 2022 4:08 p.m. PST

Well again my Army experiences do not include hearing of rape of any sort. That being said, I may not have heard about it, but I probably would have, based on my duty positions, etc.

Plus again I served in 4 Infantry Bns with no women. Or even heard of males raping males. The Mech Hvy Bde CBT SPT Bn I was with had a good number of females. Even my clerk typist/driver was female. And nothing about any rapes, I knew of. But that was 35 years ago. old fart

Druzhina30 Jun 2022 6:22 p.m. PST

That sounds more like a culture where rape was not reported, rather than rape not happening.


Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

Tortorella Supporting Member of TMP30 Jun 2022 7:05 p.m. PST

As I keep saying, I think the military is like a city of a million people in terms of law enforcement.

Domestic violence is considered a serious issue on bases and may be more under-reported than anything else. The Army has only started to track it properly in the last few years.

Not a crime but a tragic issue, suicides are apparently about double that of civilians in the same age groups and this has no gotten much publicity.

Legion 401 Jul 2022 8:23 a.m. PST

That sounds more like a culture where rape was not reported, rather than rape not happening.

Again, not my experience … Unless some know more about serving in the military than I do, and some here do.

So what do I know ?

In all the commands I served in … in no way would such a crime go unpunished if reported or known. Maybe it's not the military culture but the culture of the civilians. Who some join the military. As I said, I was an ROTC Cadet, '75-'79, Active Duty '79-'90, USAR '91 … old fart Have things change that much since then ?

Tortorella – Generally I agree … The military has a large number of people. You will always get a very few who break the law, or commit a crime and get away with it.

Legion 401 Jul 2022 8:31 a.m. PST

BTW … the conversation has gone waaaay OT … What does rape in the military have to do with the original topic ?

Or my comments about who is the USA's oldest, best, ally ?

If anyone wants to start a thread about either of those topics. Feel free … go for it !

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