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"How Long Can The Western Consensus On The Ukraine War Hold?" Topic


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SBminisguy06 Oct 2025 1:28 p.m. PST

Btw – if you ever want to play the refitted USS Iowa per the 1990s proposal, here are the Harpoon V stats. Played this once in a scenario years back in which Iowa and an Arleigh Burke FFG do a "Freedom of Navigation" transit through the Taiwan straights and it turns into a rolling engagement in which PLAN/PLAA lost over 100 aircraft and 8 surface vessels in exchange for the Burke lost and the USS Iowa damaged but retreating under weigh into CAP coverage from a Carrier Group:

Here's the PDF: PDF link


Ship Data Summary — USS Iowa BB-61 (Strike Battleship 1990s Proposal)
Category Specification
Displacement ~63,000 tons full load (similar to 1980s config; aft weight redistributed for VLS & hangar)
Propulsion 8 Babcock & Wilcox boilers, 4 GE turbines, 212,000 shp → 33 kts
Range 15,000 nm @ 15 kts
Crew ~900–1,000 (personnel reduction due to automation)
Sensors (Aegis/NTU fit) AN/SPY-1A/B (Aegis), AN/SPG-62 (illuminators), AN/SPS-49(V)5 (air search), AN/SPS-67(V) (surface), AN/SQR-19 (VDS), AN/SLQ-32(V)3 (EW suite)
ECM / Decoys SLQ-32(V)3, SRBOC × 4, Nulka × 4, TAC-EW suite
Helicopters / UAVs 2–4 × SH-60B Seahawk or UAVs (Fire Scout / Pioneer type)
Aircraft Facilities Aft hangar + pad (extended); optional "battlecarrier" V/STOL deck variant
Command Role Flag/AAW Command & Control Node for fleet group
🔱 Armament Suite (Proposed)
System Quantity Function Notes
16″/50 Mk 7 guns 6 (2 × 3 turrets forward) Surface NGFS Retained; same stats as 1980s (range 23 nm HE or 38 nm ER AP)
VLS cells (Mk 41) 128–256 (cited range 64–320) Multi-role Mix: Tomahawk BGM-109C/D, SM-2MR/ER, ASROC (VL)
5″/54 Mk 45 guns 2 (1 fwd P/S) Secondary battery Many plans kept 1–2 mounts for shore fire support
Phalanx CIWS Blk 1B 4–6 CIWS Replaced older mounts; some concepts added RAM
RAM launchers 2–4 × 21 cells Point defense 1990s option; paired with CIWS zones
Harpoon RGM-84D 8 – 16 (4 × quad canisters or VLS loadout)** ASuW May be absorbed into VLS Tomahawk ASM mix
Torpedo Defense SLQ-25 Nixie, no ship-mounted tubes
🛰️ Combat System Integration

Primary Air-Defense:
Aegis SPY-1B controlling SM-2 MR/ER missiles from VLS.
Equivalent to a Ticonderoga-class CG, but with greater magazine depth.

Surface Strike:
Tomahawk Land Attack Missiles (TLAM-C/D) for deep strike;
Harpoon or Maritime Tomahawk for anti-ship.

ASW:
ASROC (VL) + 2–4 SH-60B helicopters; hull sonar (SQS-53) optional fit.

🧭 Harpoon Stats (Representative Game Conversion)
Parameter 1990s Strike Battleship (USS Iowa Concept)
Speed (kts) 33
Endurance (hrs) 1,000 (15 kts cruise)
Def Rating 200 (armor + ECM)
Armor Belt (mm eq.) 310 – 370
Radar Cross-Section Large (8 + modifier); reduced for VLS superstructure variants
Fire Control Channels 8–12 missile channels (Aegis); 2 gun FC (16″ + 5″)
VLS Load Example (192 cells) 64 SM-2, 32 ASROC, 64 Tomahawk, 32 spare reload mix
Helos / UAVs 2–4 (ASW / recon)
CIWS Coverage 6 mounts = full 360° point defense
RAM Coverage 2–4 launchers = overlapping AAW zones
Sensors Range (kyds) SPY-1B (Air 300+), SPS-67 (Surface 80), SQR-19 (VDS 50 ASW)
Combat Systems Note Equivalent Aegis Baseline 4.0 / NTU combat suite
Crew 900 (automated)
🛠 Automation Impact (Game Narrative)

Reduced Damage Control & Crew Fatigue modifiers:
Treat as "Modern Automated Battleship" (+1 to DC rolls, −1 to Crew Casualty effect).

Weapon Readiness:
Turrets 1 & 2 require traditional warm-up, but VLS weapons "instant ready."
Re-arm 16″ guns every 2 turns; missiles per launcher rate as per Harpoon VLS rules.

Combat Doctrine:
Acts as Fleet AAW Flagship / Strike Platform—comparable to a CGN + BB hybrid.
Can operate independently or lead a Surface Action Group.

🧩 Comparative Reference
Ship Type Missiles (VLS/Canisters) Helos AAW System Crew
USS Iowa (1989) 32 Tomahawk + 16 Harpoon (box launchers) 0 (pad only) Mk 37/51 radars (legacy) 1,550
USS Iowa (1990s Concept) 128 – 256 VLS (SM-2/TLAM/ASROC mix) 2–4 Aegis SPY-1 or NTU ~900
CG-47 Ticonderoga 122 VLS 2 Aegis SPY-1A 340
BBG Battlecarrier (Extreme Proposal) 64–128 VLS + V/STOL deck 6 (plus Harriers) Aegis + Deck Ops 1,000 – 1,200
⚙️ Summary: Iowa 1990s Reactivation Value (Harpoon Context)

Firepower: unmatched—dual 16″ turrets + cruiser-level missile armament.

Survivability: heavy armor + modern ECM = resilient missile node.

Fleet Utility: high cost / crew but provides flagship and deep magazine role in littoral or strike groups.

Game Balance Note: roughly equivalent to two Ticonderoga CGs in AAW/Strike capacity, but with unique gun support and armor resilience.

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP07 Oct 2025 11:10 p.m. PST

The Ukraine War Could Have Been Avoided For ‘Peanuts'

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Armand

Tortorella Supporting Member of TMP08 Oct 2025 5:28 a.m. PST

SB – thanks for this on Iowa. It's fun to think about modern practical applications for it. If I were a CinC I might just restore it as a multifunction command hub, but also as a symbolic presence in the South China Sea. No one else has anything like it – intimidating. And an image of unity and power for us. The big guns may have occasional purpose. The fuel consumption/logistics means some dedicated companion units would be needed to keep it relatively safe perhaps. But it would be an inspiration!

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP08 Oct 2025 11:34 p.m. PST

Poland Has The Largest Tank Force in Europe


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Ukraine Battlefield Motorcycle Revival


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Armand

SBminisguy09 Oct 2025 11:58 a.m. PST

SB – thanks for this on Iowa. It's fun to think about modern practical applications for it. If I were a CinC I might just restore it as a multifunction command hub, but also as a symbolic presence in the South China Sea. No one else has anything like it – intimidating. And an image of unity and power for us. The big guns may have occasional purpose. The fuel consumption/logistics means some dedicated companion units would be needed to keep it relatively safe perhaps. But it would be an inspiration!

One of the refit studies examined fitting USS Iowa with nuclear propulsion but the changes and costs were so high you would be better off with a whole new ship.

And two new shells were designed for the 16" guns (on paper) -- a RAP round that would allow Iowa to fire ballistic out to 70km, and a Glide-assist Smart Shell with a +200km range. These would be very difficult to shoot down – RAP round "terminal phase" plunging at a very steep angle at 1200 m/s with a small radar cross section (0.1m) and maybe a few seconds to acquire and engage. The Glide Round would be easier to engage with "terminal phase" plunging at a shallower angle at maybe 600 m/s.

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP10 Oct 2025 5:46 p.m. PST

The former UK PM Boris Johnson, IIRC. Said in an interview today. That he thinks Putin is like Gollum in LotRs. I'm can see the same attitude with Putin seeing Ukraine as the ring Gollum was obsessed with.

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP10 Oct 2025 11:00 p.m. PST

The Superb Finland & USA Icebreaker Deal is Here

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Russia Tests NATO's Eastern Defenses

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NATO reportedly weighs stronger military response to Russian provocations

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Armand

35thOVI Supporting Member of TMP13 Oct 2025 6:07 a.m. PST

Caprum2 and other hardliners on this war. I said before, now is the time to make peace, there will be no better time. I don't believe you will ever have a President who will attempt to be as fair to both sides. He now has 8 peace treaties and or ceasefires. In the ME the last live hostages were returned today.

I know this will fall on deaf ears, but I really believe this.

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP13 Oct 2025 11:29 p.m. PST

New Combined Air Operations Centre Opened by NATO in Norway

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Armand

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP13 Oct 2025 11:39 p.m. PST

A Closer Look at Trump's Peace Deals: From "Death and Hatred" to "Love and Success"?


link

About Peace in Ukraine the problem is with Who are you going to sign with… Is Putin credible?… This is like if you had two daughters aged 12 and 15 and you decided to accept the invitation to send them to Russia for a period of 6 months to live with a Russian who doesn't have the best criminal record but swears on a piece of paper that nothing will happen to them… Guarantees?… A piece of paper that's worthless. Would you send them?


Armand

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