"How Long Can The Western Consensus On The Ukraine War Hold?" Topic

"Who will stand up to Putin?"

Well according to TMP
And the media, Europe, Turkey, Canada and a host of others. Have I read wrong? 🤔

Japan, South Korea, Australia, Argentina, Israel…

IMHO… shame to USA… again…

Armand

Yes, pretty much everyone except China. North Korea and…The United States.

"Japan, South Korea, Australia, Argentina, Israel…

IMHO… shame to USA… again…"

"Yes, pretty much everyone except China. North Korea and…The United States."

🤔 Well by gum, it sure does look like a lot missing to me. Also a lot for everyone else to make up without the US.

Subject: Total bilateral aid to Ukraine by donor & type 2024 | Statista


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Subject: These Countries Have Committed the Most Aid to Ukraine | Best Countries | U.S. News


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Oh and maybe all the "supporting of Ukraine", should stop "supporting Russia"

"EU imports of Russian fossil fuels in third year of invasion surpass financial aid sent to Ukraine

Tighter sanctions that undercut Russian countermeasures can slash Kremlin revenues by 20% annually

Despite a range of sanctions and the threat posed by dependence on Russian energy, in the third year of Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine, EU imports of Russian fossil fuels in particular remain largely unchanged, totalling EUR 21.9 bn, a 6% year-on-year drop in value but merely a 1% year-on-year drop in volumes.

Notably, EU imports of Russian fossil fuels in the third year of the invasion surpassed the EUR 18.7 bn of financial aid they sent to Ukraine in 2024.

Russia's total global fossil fuel earnings in the third year of the invasion also reached EUR 242 bn and have totalled EUR 847 bn since the start of the invasion of Ukraine in February 2022.

Sanctions are not just a policy tool; they are a strategic necessity. Now is the time to keep calm and carry on—holding firm against pressure to lift them. Easing sanctions prematurely would only strengthen authoritarian regimes and undermine the very principles we seek to uphold. Persistence is key to real impact.

Rasa Juknevičienė, MEP, EPP Group
Russia's stronghold over new markets also solidified in the third year of the invasion. The three biggest buyers of Russian fossil fuels, China (EUR 78 bn), India (EUR 49 bn), and Turkey (EUR 34 bn) were responsible for 74% of Russia's total revenues from fossil fuels in the third year of the invasion. The value of India and Turkey's imports saw a year-on-year increase of 8% and 6% respectively."

Reaction in the Russian Periphery

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Armand

Lockheed Martin Unveils Mysterious New Weapon

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Armand

OVI +1

Who will stand up to Putin?

What a silly question! What do you think has happened over the last three years? Putin failed, he didn't take Ukraine. Yet. It's time to end this war before Ukraine collapses. Trump has proposed the same path Truman did to end the Korean War.

1. Cease Fire
2. Status of Forces and Peace Talks
3. DMZ
4. Reconstruction

It worked, South Korea is one of the most advanced economies on the planet.

What a silly answer,SB! Biden over the last three years…and Trump is no Truman, who would never allow even the appearance of alignment with the Soviets. Let's hope he and Zelensky both learned something from the playground incident at the WH.

Some more interesting information today:

Subject: Calls Grow In Germany To Revive Compulsory Military Service – Barron's


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Subject: $840 USD Billion Plan To 'Rearm Europe' Announced – Newsweek


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A European NATO Summit: Security Guarantees for Ukraine

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Armand

Firings Begin at the Pentagon: Veterans, Civil Servants Caught in the Crosshairs

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Armand

Trump is no Truman, who would never allow even the appearance of alignment with the Soviets.

There is no more "the Soviets." There is only Russia, a dysfunctional 2nd world country with nukes -- which is why we pay attention to them, they have lots and lots and lots of nukes.

And you don't have to 'align' with another country to have a ceasefire or a peace deal other than aligning on stopping the fighting.

Besides, Putin is going to spin stuff for his own internal audiences, so very little he has to say is of interest other than "Yes, I agree to stop the war."

While they were Soviets for Truman, I don't think there is much difference. Dictatorships…

Tortorella + 1

Did anyone hear Putin speak yesterday? What is Trump's plan to reach an agreement with him? So far he has only shown his willingness to "press" the Ukrainians and withdraw the military support that had been agreed with the Biden government… in addition to the embarrassment of the press conference already much discussed here…

Could it be that his repetitive and hackneyed campaign promise about the peace he would achieve in three days was simply a phrase devoid of context? That in reality there is no plan other than to shamelessly pressure the weakest of the contenders? I see no result, progress or comment about the conversations with the invaders of Ukraine and murderers of its civilian population…

Armand

SBm +1

IIRC Trump had a press conference in his office today. Outlining his plans to deal with Putin. And help end the conflict. Trump has a much, much, much better chance of ending this war than the previous POTUS/Admin. ever did.

Frankly once again the previous POTUS and Admin AFAIK had no plans for/to end this conflict. But continuing to give free support to Ukraine. Of course, we can't forget Biden often said publicly to our enemies "Don't". Which prove to be another useless plan that could not stop anything.

Well, IIRC it didn't even work on "Corn Pop" in his long-passed youth. Probably wouldn't have stopped the cannibals in the Pacific from eating his uncle either.

Note also a much under reported fact is the NATO made loans to Ukraine for weapons, etc. The US was just giving them to Ukraine. Trump now at least made some sort or ROI, now. Just not giving it away.

Well… give total or partial support for the Ukranians seems a plan to me… not the best plan… but a plan…

Which is Trump plan? … as I had said?

Armand

‘Drone Carries' Could Make Aircraft Carriers Obsolete

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Armand

Trump plans for most things lack detail. "We will be telling you in a week or two"is the standard answer. This does not always mean there are no plans.

But Putin will determine the details of a ceasefire in Ukraine, not Trump, I think.

I would not assume that the US has no counter plans for drones. There will still be a combined drone/AI and human basis for forces for some time, IMO.

Tango I brought this up before and it was pretty much poo pooed on TMP. I still think drones and other new technology will make ACC's the BB's of post WW1.

But Putin will determine the details of a ceasefire in Ukraine, not Trump, I think.

Dunno, but I'm sure that's what the Democrats and the media (but I repeat myself) will say. Actually, if the Democrat-Media is pretending there are no peace talks! What should be considered an historic bid for peace to end a war that's caused 1 MILLION casualties is NOT MENTIONED on MSNBC, CNN and HuffPost at all! If you read their websites you would not know that there's a US delegation in Moscow to negotiate a cease fire deal.

I really loathe the Establishment media.

@35thOVI

Tango I brought this up before and it was pretty much poo pooed on TMP. I still think drones and other new technology will make ACC's the BB's of post WW1.

You're probably right. The US should quickly launch DCEs -- Drone Carrier Escorts, something akin to the CVEs of WW2 but carrying a complement of drones of various needs, plus air and close air defense systems. US CVs will still be useful as aircraft platforms so long as drones perform more poorly than pilots, but at some point that will flip. And maybe we'll see a need for some type of Battleship again -- heavily armored, sealed up instead of having big hanger bays and access hatches drones can fly into. lots of air and sea defense plus its own drones.

@SB

I agree with the drone carriers and have advocated that for awhile. Also swarms of drone subs to surround the fleets. Suicide drone subs in large part, hopefully cheap and plentiful. We need to exploit AI to its fullest extent, which I believe the current admin is planning. We need to also use our space advantage, which we have sadly let full behind. I'm really interested as to what that unmanned that just returned, was really up to. Not just what they have leaked.

Lastly we have got to implement a viable missile defense system. Again something they are talking about.

I agree that in a battle for Taiwan, China has the home field advantage. Their land bases are a huge advantage, especially if our CV's are knocked out.

In all the wargame scenarios, we lose if we try and defend it. I wonder if it would be easier to let it fall, destroy anything worthwhile beforehand and then once they control it, destroy their ability to supply it any longer. Without us initially losing our fleets, planes and manpower, trying to defend it.

Sabotage their food supply as well? It could backfire, true. But then again, they have had no problem destroying many of our forests and crops with their insects lately. Not to mention Covid. It would be only fair.

All this without resulting in nukes…. Right. 🙄

My thoughts, as long as XI and his immediate cronies thought they could survive it, they wouldn't give a d##n what happened to the peasants. Has that not been the mindset of the leadership of China forever?

NATO to ask allies for 30% capability boots

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Graphic Essay: The Evolution of NATO

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Why the U.S. and Europe Are No Longer Friends

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Armand

"Why the U.S. and Europe Are No Longer Friends"

"Ed what an ugly thing to say? Does this mean we're not friends anymore? You know Ed, if I thought you weren't my friend, I don't think I could bare it?"

Subject: Tombstone – Does this mean were not friends anymore? – Movie Spotlight – YouTube


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Good movie !!! Or movies !

Why the U.S. and Europe Are No Longer Friends

Interesting article and not at all sympathetic to Europe. To summarize the article in simple terms -- starting under Obama and accelerating under Biden after a pause after Trump 1.0, America became Europe's B1tch, letting itself be used to further European strategic and ideological goals. But under Trump this has been reversed leading to an angry response by European leaders who'd been happy for the US to fetch and carry for them.

Says the article:

"For the first time in 250 years since the United States gained independence, Europe again laid colonial claims on the United States. In fact, the demand to support Ukraine is an attempt by the EU to force the U.S. to finance European foreign policy. This policy envisages waging war on Russia with the help of U.S. financial and technological assistance and the human resources and territory of Ukraine. That is, it is about at least partial subordination of the U.S. to the needs of the EU."

Furthermore, while European leaders are leading their countries into Authoritarianism in the pursuit of what are essentially Cold War metrics of power, under Trump the US is future oriented towards deconfliction of international clashes and towards technological and economic transformation, enabled by democratic processes.

Europe has put democracy at risk
Europe committed a crime against democracy by occupying Ukraine on the "Euromaidan" in 2014. (9) European politicians killed hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian voters by confusing them with the processes taking place in Ukraine. In fact, Europe has moved away from democratic values ​​and lost its mental connection with the United States. The United States of America remains the only global player that supports democratic values ​​on planet Earth. This increases the responsibility of the American government to humanity for strict adherence to democratic norms. Including in the context of investigating the European crime against democracy in Ukraine and eradicating the consequences of this crime. This explains the criticism of European democracy by U.S. Vice-President JD Vance (10) or Elon Musk. (11)

In fact, the United States is becoming the only guardian of democracy as one of the ideologies on the basis of which humanity will be united for a technological breakthrough.

SBm +1

Chokepoints Are The Focus Of A New Cold War

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Armand

Chokepoints Are The Focus Of A New Cold War

Same as it ever was.

SB – Pavlo is Russian, and a transplanted pro- Trump guy. He is a good writer, but his conclusions are highly politicized, to the point that I wonder who he has been working for. The article is interesting from a propaganda POV in this context. He is clever!

Of course there are peace talks – Putin is beginning to give us his terms while he pounds Ukraine. I agree the last admin could never pull off an agreement. But now the US is not going to be calling the shots other than assuring Putin that we are good with his demands.

But now the US is not going to be calling the shots other than assuring Putin that we are good with his demands.

Dunno, and neither do you -- but this war's estimated casualty toll is now up to 1.5 MILLION, and the cost at close to a TRILLION $$. How much longer should it continue while you seek the perfect peace deal?

I think it still comes down to; Do you believe the Ukraine can defeat the Russians alone, without another country sending their troops in?

If so, how?

It's been a stalemate, but the Russians/NK, have been making gains since sometime last year.

I'd love to know what the actual casualty figures truly are. Right now I believe what I hear, as much as I believe Palestinian casualty figures.

I've said I don't believe they can.

It's too easy for everyone on the sidelines to say; Russia must pay! Then sit back and let Ukrainians continue to die, until they no longer can.

I lean towards stopping the fighting, period. But I dislike the idea that so many paid the ultimate price trying to save their homes and families and pretty much end up on the losing side when they are clearly the victims. It was the right thing to stand against this – certainly for them, and for us.

Tort, I guess you have to ask: if they had not fought, Would Russia have taken it all?

Putin is putting ridiculous requirements to get this conflict over. In his favor of course … He is still trying to get the old Russian Empire back. As impossible as it is … But he does not care how many people die on all sides …

No he does not. As I have said, he will dictate terms. But this is one chapter. He is not done yet, IMO.

Yes Russia would have rolled right through Ukraine, 35th.

Those 20 thousand kidnapped Ukrainian kids better be part of any deal. 20K kids! Don't seem to hear as much outrage over this as we should.

Republika Srpska: the Next Potential Flashpoint in Europe

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Europe can still prevent a Russian victory

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Armand

The Westan Consensus will hold, but the US is looking more like being a failed state, utter failure of the rule of law so not eligable to be called Western.

No UshCha. If you saw the President's "scum" speech at the Justice Dept. you might form such a conclusion. Even his warning to the Houthis oddly mentions his "historic" election margin. No other President has ever made so many incongruous references to his own greatness.

But any attempt to draw any more power to the Presidency will start the courts, including the Supreme Court, to take action to preserve the Constitutional branches, IMO. We have our flaws, but after every election win comes another election. I don't think the Dems will be entirely stamped out.

And Trump's name almost by itself secured the borders. He still has time to do more of the things he was elected to do. His "mandate" is not large enough to do otherwise. All my opinion…the media on both sides has become so unreliable that being informed is a dodgy task.

Funny you should say this.

"All my opinion…the media on both sides has become so unreliable that being informed is a dodgy task."

These are articles on negative press on Trump up until the election. It has not changed. In fact, I believe much worse. Not just US, but Europe as well. Case in point: my phone gets Apple News bulletins. Not one has been positive news on the President or what he is doing. Even the bulletin yesterday on the astronauts return to earth did not mention Musk nor the President.

Subject: News Coverage of Donald Trump's First 100 Days | Shorenstein Center

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Subject: Biden received less negative media coverage than any president on record while Trump received most: study | News | gazette.com

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Subject: How I learned the truth of media's 'very fine' Trump lies

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The same during the election. I can dig out the percentage negative stories on Trump as opposed to Kamala if you would like it. Let's just say he was in the 80% negative while hers were very low.

The media as a whole is extremely biased toward the President.

Another case in point. Go do a Google search on this story, almost all results will be "right" sources, with few exceptions. But those seeing the original, will of course believe the original, because they won't see the retraction.

Subject: AP Withdraws Story Claiming Tulsi Gabbard Said Trump And Putin Were ‘Very Good Friends' |

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Tort,

But Trump is ignoring the courts and actually attacking them calling for one judge to be impeached. That is the problem, the courts have no power to enforce their decisions. Trump is going around them. Now, I think this started under Biden when he completely ignored a Supreme Court ruling over student loans and did it anyway. This is the danger. That presidents simply dismiss the courts as being powerless. Then what happens to law and the Constitution. Another step likely towards civil war.

Yes, Grattan, this is actually happening and it is scary. The enforcement power lies with the Executive and it is being gutted for replacements who are personally loyal to Trump. But over on the SC Roberts and Barrett are obviously worried and starting to shift to the middle. Of the dozens of court cases that have been filed against the WH, some will get there, and its hard to imagine anybody openly defying the SC without a public outcry of major proportions. If it does happen though, we are headed for the cliff, IMO.

35th – You have keep me informed and had some influence on me! But much of the vilification of Biden came from Fox, a major MSM player, now functioning again as state media, with former employees embedded in the Executive. There was never a mention of Biden in a positive light on Fox. That MSNBS, many others, chose to take on their business model and do the same thing tells you how effectively Fox has done its job and made billions.

The Dems are being crushed, even their financial organizations are being attacked in a strategy to finish them off. This is not illegal – unless the courts become routinely ignored.

If the Dems lose whats left of their party organization, it could result in a Resistance movement and an anti-MAGA coalition. Political civil war is already underway.

But I think the system will work in the end.

Grattan54, yes Biden ignored them and the MSM had no issues. Cheered him on in many cases.

The view on if Trump has defined the courts, depends on the sources you read and listen to. If you try a Google search, you only get the liberal sources (wonder why? 😂). But alternate sources question the jurisdiction of most of these cases, and if they are exceeding them. I believe in most cases, they are exceeding them and are doing so, strictly for political motives.

Trump has been challenged over 120 times. This exceeds the challenges of the last four presidencies combined! All but 1 are Clinton, Biden and Obama appointed judges, (see elections do have consequences).

Just take the last one, expulsion of "criminal" gang members. Dangerous to our actual citizens and even other illegals. Why would anyone challenge that!? I answer, because this is nothing more than TMDS. Just like the Tesla violence going on.

I few of the challenges are legit and should proceed to the SC, (birthright citizenship for illegals), but this shotgun effort, turns most of us against what they are doing. Same with the Democrats, they oppose everything now. They couldn't even Stand up for the 13 year old with brain cancer, getting the Secret Service credentials. That was truly a bad look.

They couldn't even say anything good about SpaceX rescuing the astronauts! I am sure there were some out there hoping for disaster. 😞

Don't believe me, listen to these. But not around children or at work. Derangement.

Subject: Voicemails Released by the Office of Senator Thom Tillis – YouTube

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Do these look like the acts of rational individuals?

Subject: @amuse on X: "TERROR: Valerie Costa of Seattle, WA, openly admits to stalking and threatening Elon Musk and Tesla, claiming she draws inspiration from Luigi Mangione. t.co/SUvCJPCqUa / X

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Subject: @amuse on X: "TERROR: Multiple Democrat NGOs have coordinated attacks on Tesla dealerships, staff, and vehicles. Last night a number of CyberTrucks were torched in Seattle. Democrats are becoming increasingly more desperate and violent. t.co/9aGzNpZ382 / X

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Subject: Citizen Free Press on X: "MASSIVE FIRE (ARSON) AT TESLA DEALERSHIP IN LAS VEGAS. Do these deranged Democrats understand that they are promoting terrorism, and btw, burning Lithium is no bueno for the environment. t.co/ic6v3KV9lO / X

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If you own a Tesla, check this out:

Subject: Tesla doxing website shows owners' personal details, has Molotov cocktail as cursor


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Now what would happen if the other side doxed the judges making these decisions?

The outcry by the left would bring down the house.

3 more today

Subject: Judge bars Trump's EPA from taking back $20 USDB in climate grants — for now


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Subject: Federal judge blocks Trump ban on transgender people serving in military | PBS News


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Subject: Judge says dismantling of USAID was unconstitutional, orders Musk to restore access for employees – ABC News


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Another case in point:

Let's say President Trump ordered the Air Force to bomb areas of Iraq where terrorists are. A judge from Hawaii over rules him.

"You can't have a judge in Hawaii telling soldiers in Iraq or Afghanistan that they can't engage in warfare."

This is exactly what some of these rulings are doing, infringing on the rights of the executive.