"How Long Can The Western Consensus On The Ukraine War Hold?" Topic

Ilhan Omar's father, Nur Omar Mohamed, was a colonel in the genocidal Socialist Siad Barre regime's military, and also became the ideological enforcer for public schools. You could not rise to that rank in the Barre regime without being both loyal and brutal. And in reward, Omar's family were privileged apparatchiks with good housing, better schools, better food, better healthcare and access to better goods that the populace did not. As the daughter of Barre regime loyalist, Ilhan got special treatment and lived as a princess for the first nine years of her life.

When the Barre regime was toppled with US help, Omar's family lost everything. Their parasitical existence was shattered, they fled the enraged mobs who would have given them the Ceausescu Treatment and became refugees.

Her father, who was a Big Man, was now a very little man. Ilhan the princess became Ilhan the angry pauper.

She hates the US for breaking her family's life of privilege, for bringing her father low, and forcing her to become a refugee.

"I really believe that time has come," he said. "The armed forces of Europe must be created.""

I don't know whether to laugh or cry
and also the time to raise the 'Armed Forces of America' with United States Haïti Cuba Venezuela…
the 'Armed Forces of Asia' with China Japan India Vietnam Philippines…
and the 'Armed Forces of Africa' well even c.1960 they were unable to do that
the fourth dimension
the Army is one of the key national element of sovereignty and independence of a State
Europe is not the republics of the Federation of Russia nor the United States of Europa, one day it will be interesting to realize such European reality in this forum, France is not Louisiana nor Great Britain New England nor Scandinavia the Dakotas where the national armies are State National Guards

Oh I think a combined French/German European army, with a shared command structure, would be to say the least… interesting. Sharing of bottles of schnapps and Brandy. Croissants, sausage and sauerkraut. Swapping tales of the old times and visits to each others countries. Celebrations of wine and beer!! Development of the new main German/French battle tank, the: "Volks-Char".

great and we will use as national symbol on tanks and vehicles Pépé le Pew with a white flag and the Belgians the so-called French fries
so it will be interesting that Germany begins to cease its antinuclear European policy threatening directly French interests and national indépendance, I imagine also very well Hungary and Slovakia why not Austria going at war in Ukraine, why not to add Serbia
that is again a great lack of knowledge of European dossiers and affairs

even the 'French-German Brigade' raised 36 years ago is perceived as a gadget and a joke serving to immobilise two French regiments while contrary to Germany, the French Army should lead many true military operations overseas, and contrary than the Bundeswehr, is facing fightings missions against hostiles belligerents, I imagine all such Armed Forces of Europa being sent to replace the French Army in New Caledonia Mayotte West Indies and others theaters, just to remember how very well worked the war against terrorism in Western Africa with such others European armies!

The Franco-German Brigade will be made available to NATO from 2026

"We were particularly surprised by the low level of human, technical and procedural interoperability of a binational brigade that has just celebrated its twenty-fifth anniversary," [wrong : raised in 1989] declared Patricia Adam, then chair of the Defence Committee.

The difference between the equipment respectively implemented by the French and German units, the training of the latter according to operational cycles specific to their country of origin and, above all, radically different rules of engagement were the main points raised by the parliamentarians.

"The BFA soldiers have already been jointly engaged in conflicts […] but the French mainly took charge of the offensive side, and the Germans, the 'cooking'…", Francis Hillmeyer, then elected representative of Haut-Rhin, summed up with a hint of irony.

No chance of European unity? Old animosities have not disappeared? 😳 A Star Trek Federation of Europe is impossible? 😱

Maybe the time for a Kumbaya moment is at hand.

For God's sake man, you can't put your faith in we evil Maga lovers. After all, we are all racists, white supremists, self centered, rifle toting, Bible carrying, neanderthals. At least that is what you all keep telling us.

sorry I don't understand what are Maga lovers

funny, during decades we are nothing more than the black sheep of Alliance and the bad to not say the worst ally, the awful capitulationists monkeys to insult and denigrate like in Irak in 2003 because we hoped to see the end of the NATO as such and wished to see an independent defence from the US, and now…the same…
but the president Trompe and others trumpists and neo-cons supporters who don't cease to insult us should weawe us flower wreaths

Lillian I Believe you are French. Am I wrong? Most in the US don't think about France at all. Some couldn't tell you where half the world is on a map. They probably couldn't name 5 cities there. But they are equally ignorant of the world (yet they can vote 🤔). Some of those believe we fought the revolution against Germany. So trust me, France is not their concern.

The only time I see you get grief on TMP is when you come out sarcastic and belittling about the US. Then some, like me, feel the necessity to respond in kind.

I personally have nothing against the French. I have a good friend, married to a US citizen who is French, living outside Paris. Also served in the French military.

I occasionally have come out against Napoleon, but he is not my favorite person.

But on a serious note, Europe had to increase their militaries.

Oh!

MAGA – Make America Great Again (Trumps motto)

Also, MAGA means the wing of the Republican Party that supports Trump and his policies. Now pretty much all of the Republican Party.

The pro trump rants are fine are they?

Didn't think anyone was ranting ?

Legion interesting on Omar. She now claims she was mistranslated. I watched the speech with English translations, did not look mistranslated. Now MTG has called for her censure amongst other things.

Well today with everything being recorded one way or another. It is easy to find out what someone said fairly easily.

Her and the rest of "the Squad" are woke progressive socialist activists. They really don't have the right stuff, and not only IMO.

It has nothing to do their sex, races, etc. "Stupid is as stupid does, Mrs. Blue." Old Forest said it best ….

Grattan, MAGA means what I said, "MAGA" is the nickname given to Trump supporters from the left. Derogatory of course. Just a technical point. 🙂

okkaay I was very far I thought it was a typo with japanese books aficionados, manga lovers

well those who think that AWI was against Germany are not entirely wrong given one third of the soldiers were German States Troops and not only Hessians…

more about the ignored pluralism of opinions and reactions in Europe

Sending Troops in Ukraine?
London has said it is ready to send soldiers as a peacekeeping force, in the event of a ceasefire. An unexpected statement that forces each European country to take a position on this issue, while an "informal" meeting is being held this Monday in Paris on Ukraine.

United Kingdom
London is playing a leading role in supporting Kyiv in the war against Russia, which "also means that we are ready and willing to contribute to security guarantees for Ukraine by sending our own troops on the ground if necessary," British Prime Minister Keir Starmer wrote in the Daily Telegraph newspaper.

Sweden
Sweden followed the UK in saying it would not rule out sending its peacekeepers. "We must first negotiate now a just and lasting peace that respects international law (…) When we have this peace, it will have to be maintained and for that, our government does not rule out anything,"

Norway
In neighbouring Norway, Prime Minister Jonas Gahr Støre said that "the time has not come" to discuss sending Norwegian soldiers to Ukraine.

Germany
Germany also considers these talks "premature". "We have repeatedly expressed that we must first wait and see whether and how peace, as we hope, will be established in Ukraine

Poland
The Polish position is more straightforward: the country will not send its soldiers to Ukraine, but it will continue to support its neighbor against Russia, the Polish Prime Minister said before his flight to the informal meeting in Paris on Ukraine and European security. "Poland will support Ukraine as it has done so far: organizationally, according to our financial, humanitarian and military possibilities. We do not plan to send Polish soldiers to the territory of Ukraine," Donald Tusk told the press.

Hungary
The Hungarian government has criticised the "frustrated" and "pro-war" European leaders who are meeting at the Paris summit. Present at the meeting, which is presented as informal, will be: French President Emmanuel Macron, the heads of government of Germany, the United Kingdom, Italy, Poland, Spain, the Netherlands and Denmark, as well as the President of the European Council, the President of the European Commission and the Secretary-General of NATO.

"Unlike them, we support Donald Trump's ambitions. Unlike them, we support negotiations between Russia and the United States," criticised Foreign Minister Peter Szijjarto on the sidelines of a press conference in Kazakhstan, broadcast on his Facebook account. Viktor Orbán, one of the few EU leaders to display his closeness to Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin, has continued to call for a ceasefire and the establishment of peace talks, while refusing to send military aid to Kyiv.

Lilian, give things time. It's just over a month. Does Europe truly want another war?

Maybe Trump is attempting to force Europes hand on peace and military buildup. Seems to be working, based on what I'm reading here and in Europes media. Your leader is trying to take the European lead it seems

I keep hearing Russia plans on taking Europe. Russia has never ever been able to maintain a long term offensive, without the aid of other countries. Logistics are just not their forte. In fact, they are horrible at it. And even Russians get tired of losing their sons and daughters eventually.

Again form your own alliances without the US. Then it's your options, just like WW1 and 2.

Would be time to realize and recognize it : we didn't cease to ask and repeat that for decades and we were very very very alone, we have been even obliged to join again such US NATO club without enthousiasm by the fault of Sarkozy and the others Europeans who didn't want to hear about any independent alliance without the US, this same country who didn't cease to consider that very negatively and most opposed to this revised military partnership coming from the worst ally French black sheep and who did everything to keep Europe in a kind of military immaturity, especially heavily Germany, under US God Father shield during decades, the same partner now is insulting his pro-US NATO children and has not even the honesty and objectivity to recognize all that, sorry for the British Germans and others but we warned them enough but they preferred to see Overseas
here we paid and still pay for our own nuclear shield independent from US and NATO contrary to the British

now it is too late, the shadow of Munich is over Europe the question is rather when the next war will begin with the Russians and where

35thOVI,

I would have to disagree with you. You often hear "MAGA supporters" or
"Trump's MAGA supporters." MAGA now also means a group of people who devotedly support Trump and his views. This includes most of what was the traditional Republican Party.

It started as a derogatory name by the left for anyone who voted for or supported Trump.

Prior they were; (Obama)

"They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

"Make America Great Again" as on the red hats was shortened to MAGA and then supporter's became referenced as such.

As in the following:

Former CNN host Don Lemon unloaded on MAGA supporters in an expletive-filled rant posted to his YouTube channel.

Lemon called supporters of President-elect Donald Trump "dumb f---ing idiots" and mocked their "stupid MAGA brain," during an episode of the Don Lemon Show.

"You're so f---ing stupid and you deserve it. You f---ing deserve it because you're so dumb," he said. "Yes, I am gloating over your stupidity."

"You've been co-opted because you're in a f---ing cult and you don't even realize it because you have stupid MAGA brain and you don't get it," he added. "How stupid and dumb are you?"

Grattan a perfect example from over the weekend.

Subject: Tom Hanks blasted for ‘disgusting' portrayal of a racist Donald Trump supporter – YouTube


YouTube link

Agreed. Those that don't support do use it that way at times. But it has also become fairly mainstream to refer to Trump's supporters as MAGA. I do and I certainly do not mean it as a put down.

The end of the transatlantic alliance

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Is NATO Falling Apart?

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Armand

Don't MAGA supporters wear red hats with MAGA written on them in big letters ? Seems like it's their own name for themselves.

"Agreed. Those that don't support do use it that way at times. But it has also become fairly mainstream to refer to Trump's supporters as MAGA. I do and I certainly do not mean it as a put down."

Grattan, I know you don't. 🙂

"Don't MAGA supporters wear red hats with MAGA written on them in big letters ? Seems like it's their own name for themselves."

Some do, most don't. It is how the MSM portrays them in stories. Supposed to make you think of Hitler's Brown Shirts and white sheet wearing KKK. There is a method to their madness. As you see in these posts, it works unless your news is well rounded. 🙂

I'm sure many here think I'm one. Surprise! Trump was not my first or second choice. But my candidates both lost primaries. But I support most of his policies . I am a conservative in most things and a Reagan Republican, thanks to Jimmy Carter arghhhhh!

Tango a question for you.

The Warsaw Pact is gone. The wall has fallen. WW2 ended in 1945. Is it time for peace time alliances to end, or be revamped? I believe if an alliance is necessary, it should be a European alliance or a Central Europe alliance. I've said and will continue to say, peace time alliances give you NO maneuverability. To honor them you MUST respond. To fight wars one must be able to maneuver and adapt. I would think WW1 and WW2 would have shown this.

If Bavaria had been invaded by Austria (when his ally) would Napoleon immediately have responded, unless he had his response organized and his ducks in a row? I would think not. Maybe a somewhat poor example, but just sort of a point.

a forgotten faithful and loyal ally to Napoleonic France, the Kingdom of
Denmark set to announce 'massive' rearmament plans

Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen said her government would announce plans on Wednesday for a "massive" rearming of Denmark's military due to the growing threat posed by Russia.
"We must upgrade massively to protect Denmark. And we must rearm massively to avoid war," Frederiksen told parliament on Tuesday.
She did not disclose any details or sums, but according to Danish public broadcaster DR, the government is expected to announce the creation of a 50-billion-kroner ($7 billion) fund for additional defence spending in 2025-2026.

The government had considered doubling the size of the fund, but determined that there was currently not enough defence equipment on offer to be able to purchase for a larger amount, according to the broadcaster.

Among the items on the government's wishlist are air defence systems, which it does not currently have, DR said.

Frederiksen told parliament the rearming would need to happen "quickly", amidst a "difficult situation for our country, kingdom and continent."

Denmark is currently experiencing "the most dangerous situation in our lifetime. This is worse than during the Cold War," she said.

After emergency talks in Paris over the US change in policy on the Ukraine war, Frederiksen warned that Russia is "threatening all of Europe now".
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In response to your question, my good friend… I will tell you that the time of alliances is dictated by the war circumstances and the opponents… if the countries involved in any dispute have a real history of democracy and civility, if they have proven to be firm but fair, if they keep their word… that said… if alliances must be of peace… imho all these antecedents should be taken into account… what alliance of peace can be made with a race of bloodthirsty predators, serial liars and black-collar thieves?

These people only understand one thing…the real threat to their lives and property .

That applies to countries and governments like North Korea, Iran and especially Russia…

Not to mention alliances of peace with Hezbollah or similar… that feed on these rubbish countries.

The game your president is playing is very risky… only if he really establishes a very strong defensive/offensive perimeter against those bad people that they really fears… that will only serve to lead to future very bad moments in the history of humanity.

Responding to your example… Napoleon would have rubbed his hands if the Austrians invaded any state allied to France… excellent excuse to fall upon them and make them pay for their tremendous mistake…

Armand

Frederiksen warned that Russia is "threatening all of Europe now".

Russia is unable to conquer its smaller weaker neighbor. Much like Mussolini broke his army on the Greek Pindus mountains, Putin broke his army on the steppes of Ukraine. Europe has something like 6x the GDP and 4x the Population of Russia. European nations should have no problem fending off Russia and should have long-term re-integration as their political goal to being Russia back into the fold and away from China.

Thanks for the response tango.

I may not quite have made my point clear. Alliances during times of peace, to me are dangerous. You are backed into a corner with them.

"Responding to your example… Napoleon would have rubbed his hands if the Austrians invaded any state allied to France… excellent excuse to fall upon them and make them pay for their tremendous mistake…"

So in this case say Bavaria was part of Napoleon's NATO. Austria invades. France has two Corp close enough to respond, but because of the alliance he feels it necessary to throw them in automatically to the wolves and they are destroyed. Prussia and Russia sense weakness and join Austria. Saxony and the rest of the Confederation change sides. England launches. Of course now you have a full fledged European conflict, one Napoleon was not prepared for and eventually loses.

But no NATO type alliance, Napoleon makes his own decisions. He is not forced into a corner he can stay back, raise troops prepare a massive offensive at his own time and place. Or he can decide Bavaria is not worth the loss necessary to keep it. Any number of alternatives are available to him. But an automatic response to an alliance, does not allow those alternative actions.

Today those automatic responses can quickly result in nuclear annihilation. Most wargame scenarios say, that once the first nuclear weapon is fired, the rest will follow within one hour.

In today's world, the necessity for time for alternative actions and decisions, are more mandatory than ever before.

Just my thoughts

BTW everyone who voted for Trump were not MAGAs per se. They just supported a candidate that was more for "we the people". Then the past admin who actually seems to put most of their efforts into programs, initiatives etc. that had to do with woke progressive dogma, DEI, CRT/1619, Green, LGBT, etc. fringe topics. Not the #1 priorities of any republic. Protecting it citizens and supporting an active growing economy. I.e. National Security and the economy.

Nothing that was done or could be done 200 years ago is comparable to today.

If our motivation is the fear of mutual annihilation… then let's not waste time and ask Putin, Pin and Kum which countries they want to have under their orbit in the immediate and medium term… we will hand them over and with that we will have lasting peace (!)

It seems that the world is currently divided into two parts… one made up of the usual murderers, criminals, thieves and torturers… and the other made up of the lukewarm, cowardly and fearful…

It is a safe bet to point out who will win…

It is a pity the few brave people who face the first group…

Armand

Tango,

A country has to have options imo. You cannot allow one's country to be tied to the anchor of peacetime alliances. Maneuverability is mandatory. More so today than at any time in history. 🙂

I understand that… When there is a lot of maneuverability in supporting a friendly country invaded and bled dry like Ukraine… it remains that it is only a matter of obtaining some advantage over the misfortune of others… I regret to say that over the years… due to various actions of this type… the USA became unreliable as an "Ally"… it does not show its best exponents in the direction of the country with respect to international relations and the place that corresponds to them due to their importance… and in my sole opinion… it is tremendously wrong to trust terrible murderers like Putin and others that I have mentioned… I hope I am wrong… but I smell more of "business" than "defense of democracy and the values ​​of the West" actually…

Armand

Tango check out Stone Mountains post from a Spanish news group in one of the other threads.

No one trust Putin, not even Mrs Putin. 😉

Yeah, don't turn your back on him … once KGB always KGB …

Legion, she put bars on all the windows from the 2nd floor up. No electric appliances near bathtubs and showers. 😉

Or she might end up as a statistic. Another horrible case of suicide.

So… why meet with them instead of pushing them to meet?… on what basis are the meetings?… if they are about what Trump openly says… it is about what I said before…

By the way…

The Real Crisis Lies Within the West Itself

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And take note about another good guys to talk…

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Armand

How Europe can pay for rearmament

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A Timeline of Suspected Underwater Sabotage Incidents in the Baltic Sea

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Armand

"…pay for rearmanent"

(European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen)"She is proposing to activate the Stability and Growth Pact's escape clause (which allows higher borrowing during crises)"

Name the crisis, please.

The crisis is:
the USA are switching sides by backstabbing Ukraine and planing Major Economic Development transactions with Russia

The consensus is terminated as can be seen by the latest UN Ukraine resolution.

This tread can be closed.

The crisis is:
the USA are switching sides by backstabbing Ukraine

Tell me again your grand plan for total Ukranian victory?

Because it seems you don't get it -- yes, Putin started this war. His choice, he invaded, doesn't matter the greenlight he thought he got from Biden (remember -- the US won't react to a "minor Russian incursion") like Saddam though he got in 1990. His fault.

But when he wanted out, that was the chance to stop the war in March 2022. Why not stop it then? Why so much focus on say, getting the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians to stop, but a war in Europe -- no so much?

It's really stunning to me that you're not at all upset about the cold-blooded ruthlessness of the Biden Admin and European leaders to use Ukraine like a meat shield, to prop up Ukraine and resource them just enough not to collapse as long as it made Russia bleed. Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians were a great price for them if it reduced Russian power.

NextRS: America Is Betting Big On A New Hypersonic Bomber

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Armand

SBm +1 Yes, seems the US and Ukraine are soon going to sign the Rare Earth Metal deal. This with help Ukraine immensely to rebuilding their devastated country. And the US will get some ROI on the billions that was sent to Ukraine when the warmongering Russians attacked 3 years ago.

Again, I don't think many understand what it takes to end the slaughter that Putin caused. That has been going on for 3 years. No matter what is said about the US selling Ukraine upriver.

"Call me anything but late for chow and payday."

With this US-Ukraine Rare Earth Deal, the Ukraine[and NATO] will be very glad in the long run. The only knife they may have to fear is a pure silver one. They may stick themselves with when eating a steak to quickly ….

Norway Joins Nordic and Baltic Countries to Support Ukrainian Brigade with Training and Equipment

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Ukraine Produced More Than 150 2S22 Bohdana Self-Propelled Howitzers in 2024

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France Offers European Nuclear Shield with Rafale Jets in Germany After Meeting with US President.

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Sweden Transfers Tridon Mk2 Air Defense System to Ukraine as Part of a New Aid Package

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Ukraine Draws Inspiration from Israel to Sabotage Russian Drone Operators' Equipment

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Armand

Macron announced that Rafale fighter jets armed with nuclear weapons could be deployed in Germany as part of an initiative to strengthen Europe's nuclear deterrence and provide a nuclear shield for the continent. This move reflects France's broader strategic push to bolster European defense autonomy amid rising tensions in the region.

Meaningless gesture, will not happen. France will not base nuclear weapons outside of France to save 10 minutes flight time.

Only Poland can save Nato Warsaw must keep the Russians back

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Armand

SBminisguy wrote.

It's really stunning to me that you're not at all upset about the cold-blooded ruthlessness of the Biden Admin and European leaders to use Ukraine like a meat shield, to prop up Ukraine and resource them just enough not to collapse as long as it made Russia bleed.

I don´t know if you know Colonel/Oberst Reisner, he ist the leader of the austrian officer school in vienna. He is a highly regarded expert, he has some nice youtube videos
YouTube link

He said in an interview that the Biden administration and the western allies gave Ukraine enough material to survive, but not enough to win. AfaIr he gave the example that ukraine asked for 300 artillery systems and got thirty. So basically the west not even half-assed.
So I share your disgust on the way the war is handled by the West.
I am not informed what each government of europe gave to Ukraine, but I know that the german government only gave Leopard 2 after the Biden administration prmised to send M-1. Which does not make sense.

Fun fact: the Green party, which roots are pacifistic, were most keen on sending more weapons to Ukraine.

In another posting of mine I said that the loss of lifes of russian sons cannot be worth the rebirth of pride in Russia.
The Ukraine war is a crime against the people of Russia, too.
So when I critize Trump I do not glorify Biden.

My plan to win the Ukraine war: intensifie the production of long range drones and sell them to Ukraine. Then let them hit the production in Russia as hard as possible.
Tell Russia you will do whatever it takes to win.
Make China and India stop supporting Russia. I have no clue how to do it.

Tell Russia they can keep the Crimea, can get access to european markets again; people in DonBass will be asked if they want to be under russian or ukraine governing.

Tell Iran if they don ´t stop sending drones to Russia their TV programmes will be hacked and pork meat ads will be shown all day.

Promise Trump the nobel peace price if he lowers egg prices and send Musk to Mars.

I promise this plan to win the war will work.

Tell Iran…Pork Meat ads… That is funny! Love it.

interview that the Biden administration and the western allies gave Ukraine enough material to survive, but not enough to win. AfaIr he gave the example that ukraine asked for 300 artillery systems and got thirty. So basically the west not even half-assed.
So I share your disgust on the way the war is handled by the West

Yes I and others have said similar. And I was only a US Army former CPT. Biden was not a real leader, never was. He was a puppet of the left. Along with continuing mental decline. Some in his admin, e.g. Blinken, Sullivan, etc. even Soros's son, etc. were running the show. And yet the Dems, media, left, etc. knew within about 6 months he was not competent to be the POTUS. And his VP pick was a DEI hire. Neither showed any real competence in pretty much anything.

The A'stan debacle show the world the POTUS did not have the right stuff, the VP, admin and staff were far from being up to the task. Their very poor etc. decisions damaged not only the US. But the Western world. The Dems, media etc. thought they'd use the "King Has No Clothes" fairytale. They hated Trump and did not want to lose power.

Sacrificing "we the people" and many in the world. And they all got away with this charade/game/lie/foolishness. And again our enemies took advantage of this circus of fools, that they passed off as a gov't with capable leaders. They lied.

Along with all the US deaths due to the Biden/Dems, etc. open border policies. Plus the A'stan debacle, the War in Ukraine[as Putin saw the US had no real leaders in charge], play softball with Iran causing 7 Oct, the Houth firing missiles, etc.

THERE IS BUCKETS OF BLOOD ON THE HANDS OF THE BIDEN ADMIN, THE DEMS, THE MEDIA, THE FAR LEFT WOKE PROGRESSIVE SOCIALISTS, ETC.

And they all are getting away with murder …

Prioritizing Go Green/Climate Change, illegal aliens, DEI, CRT/1619, Trans movement[which make up less than 1% of the US pop.] etc., etc., etc.

And now the US and Western Europe have to fix the massive mess the Biden admin, Dems, etc., etc. have created.

It is an embarrassment to the vast majority of people in America. And tragedy for many in the world !

Family of US marine veteran killed in Ukraine tells funeral in Kyiv he died fighting for freedom

"Ethan Hertweck, a 21-year-old U.S. Marine Corps veteran who was killed while fighting alongside Ukrainian forces, has been honored with a funeral service in Kyiv attended by family and friends"

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People in Kyiv say farewell to fallen US Marine Ethan Hertweck

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Well, it looks like this thread is finally over in terms of the original post. Consensus is not what we do in America very much in recent times. Who will stand up to Putin?