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"How Long Can The Western Consensus On The Ukraine War Hold?" Topic


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Tango0128 Sep 2023 10:30 p.m. PST

Is Slovakia About To Elect A Pro-Russian Government?


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How The Russia-Ukraine Conflict Could Be America's Next ‘Forever-War'

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Armand

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP29 Sep 2023 8:12 a.m. PST

From Military.com

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IMO Don't stop supporting the Ukraine vs. Russia/Putin. I agree … To talk WWE trash – I say they need to be BBleeped texth slapped repeatedly about the head and shoulders. They can't pull this 💩 again …

Tango0102 Oct 2023 8:52 p.m. PST

Slovakia's Populist Party Opposed To Ukraine Aid Wins Parliamentary Elections


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Ukraine Finally Has America's World-Class Abrams Tanks, But Will It Be Enough?


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Armand

SBminisguy03 Oct 2023 11:30 a.m. PST

No. It's basically one company of tanks with inexperienced crews and a logistics nightmare to keep them running.

JSchutt03 Oct 2023 4:39 p.m. PST

Apparently Slovakia wants to make Slovakia Great again….

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP03 Oct 2023 6:16 p.m. PST

Ukraine Finally Has America's World-Class Abrams Tanks, But Will It Be Enough?
Too little and may be too late. Causing the war to last longer and in turn more dead …

Apparently Slovakia wants to make Slovakia Great again….
I don't think they are much of threat …

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP03 Oct 2023 6:19 p.m. PST

Ukraine Finally Has America's World-Class Abrams Tanks, But Will It Be Enough?
Too little and may be too late. Causing the war to last longer and in turn more dead …

Apparently Slovakia wants to make Slovakia Great again….
I don't think they are much of a threat … They Are part of NATO …

JSchutt03 Oct 2023 6:58 p.m. PST

Medals will be given to the first Abrams Crew… and medals will be given for the first crew that takes them out. The warmongers should find that most entertaining…

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP04 Oct 2023 8:08 a.m. PST

The warmongers should find that most entertaining…
A nation defending against an invader … that will take war to get them out of their nation. A brokered peace with Russia holding parts of the Ukraine is really not acceptable to Ukraine's, etc. leadership. Or the people in those occupied territory …

Does anyone want to live under the Russian boot ? Many of their former WP members joined NATO, as again they don't want to be occupied by the draconian Russians. Finland even joined NATO for concern over the Russians … again.

I don't think there are any real warmongers here … It is divisive, etc., IMO to call anyone here that.

Again, the Ukrainians don't want to live under Russian control. They know how that is.

So, to stop the war where the borders are now will give the Russians a win. And only set up for a future invasion. With Ukrainian civilian suffering under the Russian occupiers.

This situation reminds me of the SCW shortly before WWII. With the Russians, Germans & Italians seeing how their equipment & tactics etc. works in combat.

Regardless, today many are interested in how this modern conflict is being fought, equipment used, etc. Is an import part of our Military's preparedness, etc. for the next war.

Warmongers ? I think not … The Russians are the warmongers. And the US & NATO should supply/support the Ukraine vs. Russian aggression …

"Peace thru Strength"

JSchutt04 Oct 2023 9:06 a.m. PST

The Minsk agreement, signed by all and violated by the Collective West was an example of "Peace thru Strength" balancing the strengths of the parties involved. What we have now is the warmonger's mantra… "Peace thru War" which is typically what follows failed attempts at "Peace through Strength."

Tango0104 Oct 2023 10:27 p.m. PST

NATO Warns Western Ammunition Supplies 'Are At The Bottom Of The Barrel' With The War In Ukraine Showing No Sign Of Ending


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Armand

SBminisguy05 Oct 2023 9:13 a.m. PST

"Peace thru Strength"

Yes, let's keep the war going until the last Ukrainian soldier drops! Is that your strategy? Amazing how many people got all tough and stuff – from a safe distance. The war has cost hundreds of thousands of casualties, global economic and food supply disruptions, massive damage to civil infrastructure on the order of $1 USD Trillion, and hundreds of billions of $$ in aid the US can't afford while its own bridges collapse and toxic train derailments poison entire towns and our non-existent Border allows drugs to flow across to the cost of 100,000 American dead per year.

We stopped Russia from conquering Ukraine. We showed its military is a large stumble-bum. We've hurt their economy and cost them tens of thousands of casualties. They didn't win. Neither did they lose, so now we're in a grinding WW1-style war of attrition that suits larger Russia better than smaller Ukraine.

We've also created the New Axis of badguy allies -- Russia + China + Iran + North Korea. We've also destabilized the dollar and this has led to a BRICS-led global de-dollarization effort. We've also drained our own military stocks and undermined our own readiness. We've also seen the rise of massive grift and corruption related to Ukraine war aid in the untold billions, flowing back through into the political class that keeps the war going.

Why keep this going the way it is?

Escapee Supporting Member of TMP05 Oct 2023 10:46 a.m. PST

I am with Legion on this. Get Ukraine what they need and get this job done.

I know there are other considerations, we don't know what we don't know. But from my perspective, war is a terrible thing, thanks a lot Putin. The faster we end this the better. Too many dead. Long wars kill more and more.

As for the axis of bad guys, this is not new. BRICS is not new. I think there is only one of the bad guys I worry about for now, and that one is having its own internal issues.

The political classes are collecting on their defense industry connections whether we support Ukraine, and our NATO allies, or not. If cutting funds to Ukraine weakens the NATO alliance, it is a bad idea. We would be giving Putin and the rest of the Axis a green light.

We made a choice to help fight major military aggression. Get it done. No bailing out. Or we make ourselves and all our allies their next target. Some things, you just have to do.

All my opinion, I do get your points SB and see the downside. But for the reasons above I formed my opinion.

SBminisguy05 Oct 2023 11:44 a.m. PST

I am with Legion on this. Get Ukraine what they need and get this job done.

Meaningless! Define "job done." What does that look like? This is the kind of talk that will GUARANTEE that Ukraine aid gets slashed hard when political power flips. The average American, whose sons and daughters are the ones who will do the dying in an expanded war and who are struggling to make ends meet do not see what that hell "winning" looks like, let alone why we should keep funding this war 5000 miles away at all when that $$ is needed at home.

Make a convincing case for what "getting the job done" means or it will be game over at some point in the next few years at most.

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP05 Oct 2023 2:28 p.m. PST

"Peace thru War" which is typically what follows failed attempts at "Peace through Strength."
If you study history the US was unprepared for WWI, WWII and even the Korean War. We should not let that happen again. If one understands the past. Our elected & appointed leaders don't or just don't care …

Yes, let's keep the war going until the last Ukrainian soldier drops! Is that your strategy? Amazing how many people got all tough and stuff – from a safe distance.
After serving on active duty as an Infantry Officer, '79-'90, worldwide in 4 Infantry Bns … I think I'm a bit too old to go back in the line, so to speak old fart … However, the Ukraine is doing the fighting, they don't need NATO troops in their ranks. They need the support to get the Russians out of their territory …

That is not "warmongering" … NATO, etc. is assisting a sovereign nation that has been attacked for no reason but blatant imperialism. Now that is warmongering …

and toxic train derailments poison entire towns
Yes, I know … I live just up the road from East Palestine …

our non-existent Border allows drugs to flow across to the cost of 100,000 American dead per year.
Yes, the drugs come from China to the cartels, then cross the border using the millions of illegal aliens as cover.

This can be stopped if the US leadership has the will. But it does not fit the small minority of progressives' agenda, etc. However, to save US lives mean we have to keep illegal aliens out by closing the border tight … and round up as many illegal aliens as possible who are already here. Then send them back to where they came from. Again, the illegal aliens are being used for cover by the cartels. This invasion of our Southern Border has quickly become unsustainable with 7-8 million illegal aliens coming across. Unless everyone who wants open borders adopts 3-5 illegal aliens. Which will never happen. "Not in my backyard!", I think the saying goes …

We stopped Russia from conquering Ukraine. We showed its military is a large stumble-bum. We've hurt their economy and cost them tens of thousands of casualties. They didn't win. Neither did they lose, so now we're in a grinding WW1-style war of attrition that suits larger Russia better than smaller Ukraine.
If we stop support for the Ukraine. And leave the Donbas, Crimean land bridge and Crimea in Putin's hands. Then Putin will claim victory. These occupied areas will only become jump off points for the next invasion 5-10 years from now. IIRC this is the second time Russia invaded. Nothing says there won't be a 3d …

Will we have to send UN troops to set up checkpoints, defensive lines, etc. to keep the Russians for going for #3 ? Russia & China will certainly veto this UN peacekeeping action.

We've also created the New Axis of badguy allies -- Russia + China + Iran + North Korea.
They were pretty much BFFS if not already on the way. Didn't one POTUS in the past call them the "Axis of Evil" … BTW Remember we are still in a state of war with North Korea. It is only a truce since '53. I had 22 months there, '84-'85 in a forward deployed Mech Bn with 2 tours on the DMZ. I didn't forget …

FWIW Un is just a gangster, even he knows he may get the first shot. But even without using WMDs he and his dictatorship are done. He likes to rattle sabers for local consumption. However, if he attacks the ROK, he will lose his "dynasty" and probably die. He wants to stay "king" and have fun doing it …

We've also drained our own military stocks and undermined our own readiness.
Yes, because the US leadership ignored history or forgot we should be prepared for war … again. What did an old Roman say ? "Pray for peace but prepare for war." …

Kind of like "Peace thru strength" as a deterrent …

Define "job done." What does that look like?
Russia pushed out of the Ukraine, Putin and his cronies be charged with war crimes. Is the short answer …

The average American, whose sons and daughters are the ones who will do the dying in an expanded war
Highly unlikely the war will expand. With involving the US/NATO with boots on the ground in the Ukraine. Besides the US Military is really in no condition to go to war … at least at this time. We know we need to stay out of war if at all possible. If we learned anything from Vietnam, Somalia and A'stan.

If Russia does not invade NATO and trigger Article 5. WWIII in the East won't happen. Putin knows this … he can't take on NATO … Russia can't even take on the Ukraine …


Tort +1 …

Tango0105 Oct 2023 10:32 p.m. PST

M1 Abrams Ineffective By 2040 In Fight Against China: Army Study


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US sends 1.1 million rounds of seized Iranian ammunition to Ukraine

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Armand

Tango0107 Oct 2023 9:50 p.m. PST

"Well-Deck" Amphibious Assault Returns With Launch of 3rd America-Class Amphib

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Armand

Escapee Supporting Member of TMP08 Oct 2023 6:02 a.m. PST

SB, the Ukranians are fighting for their families and their homeland against a ruthless and barbaric invader. Restoring their territorial integrity at least to pre-invasion status and ensuring their continued existence as a sovereign nation is the job.

Clearly, a lot of Americans support this. NATO nations need a secure flank and are united and have substantially expanded in the face of this challenge.

Weakening the Russian military threat helps everyone long term. Our monetary investment is smaller than Europe's and is worth every penny by gaining a substantial degradation of Russian conventional military power. We have spent maybe 15% of our annual military budget to help achieve a life long goal.

Legion re. The southern border. It is a tragic and debilitating mess the way the massive surge has not been met with more security, more resources. Giving money to Ukraine while not fixing this makes absolutely no sense. It's embarrassing, but that is not even the right word. That this country's government cannot develop a comprehensive immigration policy after decades is another sign of our decline.

But I think we need to understand the fentanyl crisis in less politicized terms. More than 90% of the fentanyl is brought in through regular customs down there by American citizens. It is the easiest of all drugs to conceal and move. Thousands of distributors and dealers, millions of customers in the US. It will always find a way across the border as long as the market is there. How we address this is by going after distribution IMO. That means here and abroad. It's a serious investment in a different kind of war.

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP08 Oct 2023 9:35 a.m. PST

M1 Abrams Ineffective By 2040 In Fight Against China: Army Study
By then the M1 will be considerably up graded or replaced with some newer and more deadly MBT. Rumor is in the near future, many Western MBTs will be packing a 130mm instead or the 120mm main gun.

The southern border. It is a tragic and debilitating mess the way the massive surge has not been met with more security, more resources. Giving money to Ukraine while not fixing this makes absolutely no sense. It's embarrassing, but that is not even the right word. That this country's government cannot develop a comprehensive immigration policy after decades is another sign of our decline.
The invasion of illegal aliens with the cartels using them for cover. As they smuggle drugs, humans, etc.

Yes, this adds to the long list of US failures. Again, we need real leadership in DC. And it just ain't there.

UshCha08 Oct 2023 11:08 a.m. PST

SBminisguy – Clearly your isolationism has made you lose the plot completely;y. This is not about Ukraine its about my home in the UK. If Putin wins it will not be a peace it will mean him being as bad in the UK, Slaughtering the innocent, stealing children, making us live in terror. Not in Ukraine but in the UK, Poland, Germany, and the rest of the EU. Your suggestion of "peace" is to kill me and my family in the UK.
Putiun will not stop in Ukraine, we will want the world. When Putin and China get together with the stolen Resources of Europe, as least as big as the US; Where will you be with no friends because you are too scared of Putin now?

Tango0110 Oct 2023 10:30 p.m. PST

Russia Is Gearing Up for a Standoff With NATO in the Arctic

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Armand

dapeters11 Oct 2023 10:07 a.m. PST

"Putiun will not stop in Ukraine," to think anything else is delusional.

StillSenneffe11 Oct 2023 11:44 a.m. PST

Absolutely dapeters, Legion 4, Ushcha et al. It's definitely not just about putin and his likely equally appalling successor(s), or indeed just about russia.

This is about the resurgence of absolutist 'might is right' politics around the world. This is about trying to overturn everything the US, with support from the likeminded countries, has stood for in the would for over a century now.

Many countries in Europe really need to wake up, stand up, and start pulling their weight- there's no doubt about that. But none of that will mean much without the US also standing firm. Whether against putin and whoever comes next, China, Iran, Hamas/ISIL etc.

Isolationism and appeasement are basically the same thing where global threats are concerned.

It's a fact of life that many states, Russia, China, Iran and a ragtag of of others just hate the USA for what it is and always will do. Many individuals are the same- although a surprising number of them still want to go and live there…. It's been the same for the UK on a smaller scale- albeit longer time.

But isolationism and appeasement is not the answer on either side of the Atlantic. That will only lead to the USA and the West being hated AND despised….

Tango0111 Oct 2023 4:38 p.m. PST

NATO To Respond If Finland Gas Pipeline Damage Intentional


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Finland's President Says Damage To Gas Pipeline And Telecom Cable Connecting Finland And Estonia Was Deliberate


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Armand

Tango0111 Oct 2023 10:28 p.m. PST

Can US maintain Ukraine support while Israel is at war?


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UK and European partners issue $122 USD Mn defense aid package for Ukraine

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German new €1.00 EUR Bn military aid to Ukraine includes Leopard 1A5s and air defense systems

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MGCS Main Ground Combat System nicknamed future Franco-German tank


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British Army to Welcome Challenger 3 the Future and Next-Gen Main Battle Tank

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Armand

Tango0112 Oct 2023 10:34 p.m. PST

The US Army Finally Fielded Its Drone-Killing Laser Weapon. It Could Reshape Today's Battlefield


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Mysterious Sidewinder Air Defense Systems Headed For Ukraine (Updated)


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Armand

Tango0116 Oct 2023 11:08 p.m. PST

The American Origins of the Russo–Ukrainian War


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America officially has its first Space Ranger

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Armand

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP17 Oct 2023 6:55 p.m. PST

Well, it is quite a big deal for anyone to graduate the US Army's coveted Ranger school. Being with the Space Force is just a plus.

Escapee Supporting Member of TMP17 Oct 2023 8:44 p.m. PST

Not a big fan of the Space Force since the Air Force was already doing that stuff and it seems redundant. . But getting the Ranger tab is a big deal and will give this guy a leadership perspective going forward.

Tango0117 Oct 2023 10:40 p.m. PST

US Air Force Global Hawk Drones Hunt Russian Targets Over Crimea From Black Sea

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Armand

Tango0118 Oct 2023 5:05 p.m. PST

All 31 Abrams Tanks Are Now In Ukraine

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US-Supplied ATACMS Long-Range Missiles Have Been Used For The First Time By Ukrainian Forces

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Armand

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP18 Oct 2023 5:44 p.m. PST

Not a big fan of the Space Force since the Air Force was already doing that stuff and it seems redundant.
Well actually the took some of the missions away from the USAF. So the USAF can concentrate on the skies below where Space starts. Then Space Force concentrates threats from Space e.g. the PRC/CCP, Russia, etc. assets 🛰in space. Orbiting the Earth. Not so sure about EBEs, ETs, etc. 👽 🛸

Much of what Space Force does is classified, AFAIK …

But getting the Ranger tab is a big deal and will give this guy a leadership perspective going forward.
That is quite an accomplishment. The lessons learned on patrolling, demo, navigating in the dark, setting up LZs/PZs, etc., etc., etc.

Tango0118 Oct 2023 10:23 p.m. PST

Ukraine receives first Canadian Terradyne Gurkha 4x4 armored ambulance


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Ukrainian Ministry of Defense receives Bo 105-E4 helicopter

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Ukraine Boosts Air Defense with Czech Viktor Anti-Aircraft Vehicles in 117th Brigade


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Norway Sweden and Denmark Collaborate to Supply Artillery Ammunition to Ukraine


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Finland Approves 19th Military Aid Package for Ukraine Valued at €95.00 EUR Million


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US to supply Ukraine Air Force with AIM-9M air-to-air missiles


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Ukraine deploys thousands of Lithuanian anti-drone systems

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Armand

Tango0120 Oct 2023 10:37 p.m. PST

Poland's Shift to Liberal Centrism Spells Trouble for Putin and Russia's Influence in Ukraine

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The Prediction of NATO vs Russia War in Black Sea is Becoming Reality


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NATO allies send planes and ships to Baltic Sea following suspected sabotage

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Armand

Tango0123 Oct 2023 10:35 p.m. PST

68% Of US Service Members Are Obese Or Overweight

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Armand

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP24 Oct 2023 9:02 a.m. PST

That is a scary thought …

Escapee Supporting Member of TMP24 Oct 2023 10:55 a.m. PST

I thinks it's close to 80 for cops…bad food, sitting in cars for long periods, coffee w/baked goods.

But it's also the whole country.

Tango0124 Oct 2023 10:44 p.m. PST

Finland Says A Hong Kong-Flagged Ship's Anchor Was REesponsible For Breaching A Pipeline


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Armand

Tango0125 Oct 2023 10:08 p.m. PST

Leadership: Europe Takes the Lead in Ukraine


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Germany Rearms and Rethinks Defense


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German Military Giant Rheinmetall Has Increased The Price Of 155 mm Shells To Ukraine By 50%


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Armand

Tango0128 Oct 2023 10:27 p.m. PST

Ukraine Armed Forces receive three donated Shark UAS drones

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Denmark commits $520 USD Mn military support to Ukraine

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EU to possibly supply Ukraine with some 150 Libya-bound confiscated armored vehicles


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Rheinmetall AG and Ukrainian Defence Industry JSC establish joint venture in Kyiv


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Ukrainian Navy joins multinational Joint Warrior-23-II exercise led by UK


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Ukraine gets another batch of Canadian Roshel Senator MRAP armored vehicles

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Croatia transfers 14 Mi-8 helicopters to Ukraine

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Armand

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP29 Oct 2023 9:07 a.m. PST

Support for the Ukraine keeps coming from all over world.

Russia only gets stuff from their BFFs Iran, North Korea & China.

Tango0130 Oct 2023 10:42 p.m. PST

Is U.S. Aid To Ukraine Rebuilding America's Industrial Base?


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EU Promise To Supply Ukraine With One Million Artillery Shells Falls Apart With Only 30% Delivered

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Armand

dapeters31 Oct 2023 9:07 a.m. PST

War is our business and export.

Tango0131 Oct 2023 10:32 p.m. PST

The Few, the Fat, the Fatigued

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Armand

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP01 Nov 2023 5:00 p.m. PST

It is well known for a long time, 70% of military age population in the US could not pass many of the tests, etc. to get in the Military. Now the article missed the fact that the USMC is much smaller than the other branches. And the whole USMC esprit de corps thing … I guess the author never heard of the US Army RANGERS, Green Berets, Paratroops or even USN SEALs ?

He also mentioned something about the USMCs mission is different than the rest of the military. Hmmm ? The Army's mission in many cases in the same or similar to the USMC. Both the Army and Marines have Infantry, FA, Gunships, etc. Missions are not that different. BTW – The USMC has no more MBTs, but the US Army has plenty of them …

Tango0105 Nov 2023 9:25 p.m. PST

Has Ukraine Received Shipments Of F-16s?


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Armand

Tango0106 Nov 2023 10:40 p.m. PST

Russia In Talks To Establish Miliary Bases In Eastern Libya


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Armand

Tango0107 Nov 2023 10:30 p.m. PST

NATO Reaches an Inflection Point


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Five Dutch F-16s sent to EFTC training center in Romania for Romanian and Ukrainian pilots

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First Ukrainian M1A1 Abrams tank appears in service

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French company Verney-Caron of Cybergun Group signs EUR 36 Mn framework contract to supply weapons to Ukraine

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Ukraine to Receive First Fleet of German RCH 155 Wheeled Howitzers in 2024


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Czech-made BM-21 MT Striga MLRS in action in Ukraine


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Sweden Delivers To Ukraine Eight Archer 155 mm Howitzers in Fight Against Russian Forces


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US delivers for the first time to Ukraine M1150 Assault Breacher Vehicles


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Germany delivers one additional IRIS-T SLM air defense system & TRML-4D radar to Ukraine


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Germany transfers Sonobot 5 Unmanned Surface Vehicles to Ukraine

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Armand

Escapee Supporting Member of TMP08 Nov 2023 8:38 a.m. PST

The Russian navy docking in Libya is not the threat we once might have thought, IMO.

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP08 Nov 2023 10:03 a.m. PST

Tort +1 … Their navy is a poor as the rest of their military it's appears …

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