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"Russian options" Topic


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792 hits since 19 May 2022
©1994-2024 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

shadoe0119 May 2022 7:33 a.m. PST

I ask the question of Russian's options going forward because that's where I see there is the possibility of movement. Unlike the Russian justification for the "special military operation" (hereafter called a "war" as a "rose by any other name would smell as sweet"), this really is an existential war.

I would suggest that as long as Ukraine is supplied with weapons and ammunition (and training) by NATO the existential threat to Ukraine has significantly receded. However, that does not mean it will be easy for Ukraine to regain its pre-24 February territory never mind Crimea and the entire Donbas. That alone should expose the justification for the invasion of an existential to Russia. Members of the UN must agree to not engage in aggressive war, which is probably the reason Putin raised the justification of "existential threat" so that the operation would be "defensive"; although that's a very thin argument to the point of invisibility. There was no imminent, existential threat to Russia. It was a hypothetical, potential future threat. Neither do I think the Ukraine was able to launch any kind of major attack into Russian territory that Russia could not have defeated – and such an attack by Ukraine would have entirely flipped the situation in terms of popular support. So, in my view a legalistic rationalization for what is an aggressive war. Note that the UN Charter does not say nations should avoid aggressive war unless they don't like the regime of another country. Regime change is seen as a possibility with the UN but only with approval of the Security Council. Yeah, yeah, I know – we seem to have forgotten this. It's time to remember it.

Since the situation with respect to the existential nature of this war is symmetric, it means that the greater freedom of political manoeuvre rests with Russia. For that one needs to look a Russian (or more specifically Putin's priorities. Here's a link to analysis on Putin's priorities and options by a Danish analyst, Anders Puck Nielsen:

YouTube link

In short, accepting "defeat" (i.e., a failure to achieve the major strategic aim for the war – not a "defeat" just as the Axis powers in WWII but more akin the US withdrawal from Vietnam) is a viable option for Russia. I believe at this point it's an imperative for Russia to get out of the war – and sooner than later. Why? Here's an Al Jazeera article on the defeats Russia has suffered militarily, economically and diplomatically:

link

In this the diplomatic defeat of Sweden and Finland joining NATO is really significant. Here's the Caspian Report on Finland joining NATO (note this video was done prior the submission of applications by these two countries).

YouTube link

If the hypothetical possibility of Ukraine joining NATO was "existential" for Russa then what can one say of the not hypothetical possibility of Finland joining NATO. The Caspian Report is clear on the risk to Russian strategic capabilities in the Kola Peninsula as well as the implications of the Baltic becoming a NATO lake. Prior to the invasion I thought that NATO would find it difficult to defend the Baltic countries from a Russian invasion as they lacked operational and strategic depth. Sure the current Russian military has shown that they might not have succeeded but I'm sure NATO planners will find it far easier to come up with defensive plans for the region.
So, what does that mean? In this post I'm throwing mud on the wall to see what sticks, with a some support from some other analysts who I think have some interesting insights – note that while Nielsen is Western, Al Jazeera and the Caspian Report are not, so I think I'm not looking for echo chambers.

Okay…
There's a saying, "better the devil you know than the one you don't". I just might be that we can negotiate with a Putin that's pragmatic and, importantly, has done some serious, strategic re-thinking. The alternative might me an extreme nationalist. The strategic re-thinking is what I think is the critical part. Peter Zeihan has done a number of videos that I think are probably a good summary of Putin's long term strategy with respect to Putin's perceptions of Russian vulnerabilities:

YouTube link

Zeihan's analysis makes sense in terms of the history of invasions of Russia, Putin's remarks on a new, new world order, existential threats, etc.

With Finland soon to be part of NATO, despite the potential objections of some NATO countries, Putin will need a completely new strategy. I won't speculate on what that might be, but it will have to be one where there's a far lower degree of tension between Russia and NATO. Defending Russian northern flank in the context of a high degree of tension means bankruptcy even with the wealth of Russian natural resources. Note too that Finland and NATO will need to manage this carefully as well because the threat in the north comes far closer to the triggers for the use of nuclear weapons according to Russian doctrine than anything happening in Ukraine. Here's Perun's video on the potential Russian use of nuclear weapons.

YouTube link

Those are my thoughts – and those of a few others. There's some hope in there, so here's to some hope of a better world to come.

ETA: Here's John Mearsheimer at the Monk debates. I thought I'd add this in fairness, but I think there's several holes in his thinking. I'll let you decide for yourself.

YouTube link

And the full Monk debate show you can hear both sides of the argument.

link

Note that Mearsheimer's side started with an edge of 53%-47% but ended with a 37%-63% loss in the debate.

Bunkermeister Supporting Member of TMP19 May 2022 9:10 p.m. PST

If Putin / Russia retain one square inch of Ukraine over the 1992 border than this "special operation" is a win for Putin.
Russia should immediately withdraw all troops and end support for Ukraine break away fighters. They should restore the 1992 borders with Ukraine, return all POWs and pay reparations to Ukraine as well as accept responsibility for the war. As well as the immediate resignation and arrest of Putin.

Anything less should not be acceptable to the West.
Aggressive war of this type in Europe is unacceptable. There was no NATO, EU, or UN coalition to authorize the war, only one man giving orders to attack a weaker neighbor, that they had attacked before. Keep nibbling away until eventually Ukraine is all gone. Moldavia, Georgia, and who else is next?

Mike Bunkermeister Creek

shadoe0121 May 2022 9:04 a.m. PST

Here's the latest Perun report on the implications of Sweden and Finland joining NATO:

YouTube link

I agree that this outcome represents a significant strategic defeat for Russia. The is no reasonably likely outcome in Ukraine favourable to Russia that will come close to negating what Russia loses with this shift of these two countries from neutrality to NATO membership.

It is in Russia's interests to end the war in Ukraine as fast as possible and to do what it can to improve its relationship with the West. As I wrote elsewhere, this will require considerable imagination and moral courage. Sabre rattling is neither…to say nothing of the aggressive use of military force.

Griefbringer21 May 2022 11:04 a.m. PST

It is in Russia's interests to end the war in Ukraine as fast as possible and to do what it can to improve its relationship with the West.

I agree with this.

However, is this in the best interests of current Russian regime, who are likely to want to keep themselves in power (whatever the cost)?

shadoe0121 May 2022 12:28 p.m. PST

@Griefbringer,

Good question. Perhaps Putin might be the only one who could do that 180 and get away with it.

Ultimately, if it's in Russia's best interests it should be in the regime's best interests. At least one would think so. With Russia's resources it has the potential to be a very wealthy nation, but that would take a change in its psychology, which primarily means accepting the fact that Russia is no longer the great power it once was in the Cold War. Heavens, look at the difficulty the UK and France have had to accept their relegation to a lower tier. Can they make that transition without more catastrophes?

Griefbringer22 May 2022 8:05 a.m. PST

Current Russian leadership tends to be criticised for being obsessed with attempts to re-create the past, instead of coming up with original visions for future. Their ideas of greatness may be based on how things were back in the 1870's or 1970's – instead of thinking how things could be developed in the 21st century.

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse22 May 2022 8:56 a.m. PST

Putin & the Russian have painted themselves in a corner. They don't know how to get out. Their actions has added two more nations to NATO. One on their border.

Putin and some Russians are living on past glories(?) … Someone needs to show them a calendar …

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