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"Russian prosecutions of Azov fighters" Topic


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Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian18 May 2022 8:34 a.m. PST

Any Russian moves to prosecute and potentially execute some of the hundreds of Ukrainian fighters who surrendered in Mariupol could be in breach of the Geneva conventions, which state that prisoners of war should not be punished for having taken part in hostilities…

The Guardian: link

microgeorge Supporting Member of TMP18 May 2022 9:51 a.m. PST

Not to worry Bill. They'll come up with the lame excuse that they were Nazis.

jsmcc9118 May 2022 10:26 a.m. PST

Well, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. If they go through with it, I wouldn't blame Ukraine if they tried and did the same to the Russian POW's

Personal logo David Manley Supporting Member of TMP18 May 2022 11:36 a.m. PST

Ukraine has already started. Reported a week or two back

soledad18 May 2022 12:10 p.m. PST

Biggest difference is that Ukrainian trials will be correct and transparent. Russian ones will be sham trials.

Most Russian war criminals will of course never be punished. At least the 64th mech brigade who committed the infamous atrocities in Bucha is more or less wiped out. After taking serious losses being thrown out of Northern Ukraine they were redeployed in Izium ( I believe). There they were more or less wiped out.

Hopefully the Ukrainians did not really try to take prisoners.

In Russia the 64th have been known for being extra criminal in their behavior, even by Russian standards.

ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa18 May 2022 1:57 p.m. PST

According to one article I read the Russians are also planning prosecutions because civilian buildings like schools were militarised. Apparently they are claiming a Ukrainian field hospital set up inside a civilian one to use the civilians as human shields. Though by and large I didn't think that field hospitals were considered legitimate targets, but this is the Russian army we are talking about? All sounds awfully like victim blaming!

Uesugi Kenshin Supporting Member of TMP18 May 2022 3:06 p.m. PST

Cuprum said as "Vampires"theyre not covered under the Geneva Convention.

Bunkermeister Supporting Member of TMP18 May 2022 8:49 p.m. PST

A civilian hospital and a military hospital are both protected places and should not be targeted, separately or together.

If a school or church or other position is actively defended then it is a legitimate target.

Soldiers cannot be tried for simply being soldier and taking part in warfare but POWs can be tried for violations of international law that they may have done.

I would be reluctant to try anyone until the war is over, tensions are not so high, and there has been adequate time for investigation and reflection. Then conduct a fully televised trial with a defense for the accused. Witnessed by proper international organizations.

Even the real Nazis got trials and defense attorneys. Rufolf Hess for example was held for years before being put on trial.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek
Bunker Talk blog

Thresher0118 May 2022 9:05 p.m. PST

Hmmm, soooooo the Russians, who attacked and invaded Ukraine and started this "war" are trying those individuals for defending themselves and their country, instead of just dying under the muzzles of Russian guns, bombing, missile attacks, and artillery fire.

WOW!!!

The nerve of them.

Putin's and Russia's hypocrisy has just reached new heights.

The REAL prosecutions should be against any and ALL Russians that are attacking, killing, and committing genocide in Ukraine, as well as Vladimir Putin, his inner circle, and his generals in the chain of command conducting this "war", which is NOT just a "special action", but a full-fledged atrocity of the highest order.

Why isn't the West's "leadership" calling for that in response to this silliness?

Star Blazer19 May 2022 4:05 a.m. PST

I agree with Mike re. holding off on trials until a more "suitable" future date.

As much as I support Ukraine, I can't help but think that putting that murderous little scum who shot a civvie in the back on trial at the same time as the Mariupol defenders enter captivity perhaps wasn't the smartest move.

Dragon Gunner19 May 2022 5:43 a.m. PST

Azov brigade will be sacrificed so the Russians can claim a victory, the denazification of Ukraine.

Legion 419 May 2022 7:44 a.m. PST

That may be the only way for Putin to save face with his population, etc. "They came to kill Nazis and did !" … Putin throws another parade.

Cuprum2 Supporting Member of TMP19 May 2022 8:08 a.m. PST

They will not be judged because they fought. They will be judged for what they have been doing since 2014, since the "revolution". Since that time, the Russian prosecutor's office has been collecting materials on Ukrainian Nazis. And many of them served in Azov. Now they will have to answer for their crimes.

youtu.be/KA10iTmAYnk

nickinsomerset19 May 2022 9:21 a.m. PST

Cuprum, according to you the population of Ukraine are all card carrying nazis. Russians attacked a sovereign country on the pretext of them being nazis. Russians tell the world of atrocities against their people in the Donbass. What the soviets forget to mention is the atrocities carried out by their people in the Donbas against ethnic Ukrainians. Russians are showing what scum they are, and hopefully more than the current 25,000 not go home.

Tally Ho!

Cuprum2 Supporting Member of TMP19 May 2022 9:29 a.m. PST

Do you love Nazis? Are you opposed to Nazis answering for their crimes? Or do you think that there are good Nazis and bad ones?

ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa19 May 2022 10:27 a.m. PST

Put away the strawman. The irony is Ukraine probably has less far-right elected representatives than many other European countries. If Putin really wanted to go hunting nationalists he should have gone to Hungry….

I think what really freaks Putin out is the fact the Ukraine, apart from not doing whats its told, is that its politically looking more and more like the kind of classic European liberal progressive democracy he likes to deride as degenerate. And worse they were making work for them – and even 'worser' the army of 'strong' Russia just got a kicking from said liberal degenerates!

Bandolier19 May 2022 2:41 p.m. PST

De-Nazification is a smokescreen for the Russians wanting to control Black Sea ports.
If anyone cannot see that, they are naive.
Prosecuting a pretend enemy will justify that false narrative to their ignorant masses.

Thresher0119 May 2022 2:49 p.m. PST

Those adopting the Nazi tactics of war, blitzkrieg, AND genocide should themselves be labeled as Nazis, or fascist monsters, e.g. the Russian military and Vladimir Putin and his sycophants.

Legion 419 May 2022 4:47 p.m. PST

Bandolier & Thresher +1 Killing Nazis was a good story, etc., to cover the invasion, etc.

The Russians using Blitzkrieg was a very poor example of it. Fortunately for the Ukraine & NATO.

As far as genocide, seems a lot of that going on everywhere the Russians go in the Ukraine.

Heedless Horseman19 May 2022 5:54 p.m. PST

Wearing a Swastika or SS rune tatoo just means that 'Here is an Idiot'… not a mass murderer.
All Russians are not bad, either.

Cuprum2 Supporting Member of TMP19 May 2022 7:58 p.m. PST

Heedless Horseman

I think at one time the Jews in Germany also thought in this way.

Pendekar19 May 2022 9:04 p.m. PST

Cuprum, the Nazi accusation is believed by Russia.

It ia a great excuse to stop renting Sevastopol, etc.

First prove the Nazi thesis before saying everybody loves Nazis.

Did bad thibgs happen in 2014? Yes, they did. Did the 20 year old Azov soldiers do that? no. they were kids.

The so called LPR and DPR did do horrible things as well, and the war that has been supported for 8 years by Russia has been bad on both sides.

You are bot looking at this clearly by having assumes guilt of "being nazis", therefore any trial with that thesis as the basis woukd ve in no way fair or reasonable.

Cuprum2 Supporting Member of TMP19 May 2022 10:53 p.m. PST

I know that crimes took place on all sides. And in Ukraine, captured soldiers of the LPR and DPR were tried (at best) and sent to prison for long periods. So why should it be different with captured criminals from the Ukrainian army?
If you are concerned about the fairness of the court, send your journalists and lawyers there.


And I will also remind you how war criminals were tried in the Yugoslav Civil War. How many Serbs were convicted, and how many of their opponents? Although the war was identically dirty on both sides. These are the realities of this world, whether you like it or not.

Pendekar20 May 2022 10:11 p.m. PST

I see you are not defending it as correct, you just are now saying that Russia can't help doing what they are doing because that is the reality of the world…

Great defense.

Interesting your choice of words.

Captured soldiers of the LPR and DPR

Captured criminals of the Ukranian army

In your mind they are already guilty of "being a Nazi".
Enjoy your day.

nickinsomerset21 May 2022 11:56 p.m. PST

PDF link
Interesting read,

Tally Ho!

Arjuna22 May 2022 3:22 a.m. PST

When ruzzian soldiers are killed, their mothers aks why.
When Ukrainian soldiers are killed, their mothers know why.

I suppose some of those poor souls will get 'lost' on the way.
'Shot during escape' like my German ancestors used to say, when the did get rid of pesky prisoners.

Most of them will probably end as propaganda material for years and years to come.
The honourable ruzzian audience will hear their most astonishing confessions about the most incredible misdeeds they have committed.
Some of it will probably make real Nazis blush with shame.
Think North Korea.

Many will just not return

As Alex from Clockwork Orange would put it in Nadsat:
Khorosho horrorshow!

Legion 422 May 2022 9:35 a.m. PST

Well Putin said they are going into Ukraine to kill Nazis … so … I'm sure they will find Nazis. Regardless there are real Nazis there, with all the WWII Nazi insignia, regalia, etc. Albeit few overall. What 1000 ? 2000 ?

The US probably has more Nazis than the Ukraine. But they rarely attack anyone. They get a permit from the mayor, etc. Dress up like at Cosplay. March around the town square, etc. with signs, singing, etc. Then go home … maybe stop at a fast food place, 7-11, etc.

Most in the USA think these types are idiots, etc. The US Constitution says you have freedom of speech & assembly. Which is our right to peaceful protests, etc. As it should be. So in turn this is a de fact permit to some to be morons, etc., in many cases. Just turn on the US media on TV.

Arjuna22 May 2022 10:05 a.m. PST

> The US probably has more Nazis than the Ukraine

ruzzia has more real NEO-NAZIS than Ukraine!
Many of them have direct contact with the ruling party.
Currently, a lot of them are fighting with the rest of the ruzzian rabble soldateska in Ukraine.

Of course, the whole narrative is ridiculous.

Which makes me suspect that the whole thing is so absurd on purpose.
On the one hand, the regime is showing how easily it can manipulate public opinion in its own country, on the other hand it is simply making fun of the West.
According to the motto:
'Look, we're doing it like you did in Iraq in 2003, including WMD lies and so on.'

Legion 422 May 2022 10:17 a.m. PST

Of course, the whole narrative is ridiculous.
Bingo !

'Look, we're doing it like you did in Iraq in 2003, including WMD lies and so on.'
LOL !!!! Clearly an error by the US leadership. Hopefully will never happen again. But there are no guarantees. Especially now …

However, in the USA, Memorial Day is coming up. Many graves of our war dead will be decorated with US flags. I will do my part as best I can.

Many will look at those flags and wonder why we put them there ? Some may even try to take them down and/or burn them.

shadoe0122 May 2022 11:00 a.m. PST

Thoughts about this guy? Dmitry Utkin?

link

link

wardog22 May 2022 1:32 p.m. PST

i agree with mike to any trials now, will be seen as show trials, wait till this is over and do international trials for both sides

soledad22 May 2022 10:27 p.m. PST

There is a trial going against a Russian soldier who murdered an 62 year old Ukraine civilian.

It is an open trial for the world to follow. Basically it is a standard "murder trial". The defendant has an attorney, there is an interpreter and everything is very transparent.

Striker23 May 2022 9:44 p.m. PST

Wasn't the member of the Azov Btn the reason the Forgotten Weapons book was pulled? Is this who's being tried or some other group?

Cuprum2 Supporting Member of TMP24 May 2022 2:14 a.m. PST

Soledad

Yes, it is known in Russia. If he is guilty, then let him be punished accordingly. It is surprising that the officer who gave him the order to shoot an unarmed man is not tried together with him. But they were taken prisoner together.

soledad24 May 2022 3:03 a.m. PST

He was sentenced to life in prison. I expect he will appeal and that there will be a new trial in a higher court. We will have to see what happens to the one WHO gave the order.

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