jsmcc91 | 18 May 2022 7:18 a.m. PST |
I watched this. No matter what side you are on, it is awful for the families that do not know where their loved ones are. youtu.be/VM5nyGhBA1g |
Arjuna | 18 May 2022 8:15 a.m. PST |
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Legion 4 | 18 May 2022 8:21 a.m. PST |
Yes, it appears the Ukrainians are body bagging Russian dead, for obvious reasons. And may trade them for POWs. At the beginning of this conflict, there were Russian mobile crematoriums. To take care of their dead. I have not heard about them since the early days of this invasion. This and the poor log support, clearly shows the Russian leadership cares little about their troops. They are fodder. The troops will quickly pick up on this. Starting with the troops not even being fed properly. Now leaving behind their dead. Their morale must be pretty low. Another take away is they must be retreating fairly quickly and often to leave many of their dead behind. |
Gwydion | 18 May 2022 8:26 a.m. PST |
They probably take Karl Marx' saying to literally: 'Let the Dead Bury their Dead' Er, they stopped being communists 31 years ago. |
Legion 4 | 18 May 2022 8:27 a.m. PST |
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Arjuna | 18 May 2022 8:42 a.m. PST |
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ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa | 18 May 2022 9:01 a.m. PST |
For a lot of them it's some kind of 'Holy' war. When such things were taken seriously the loss of an icon, to the bottom of the sea, would have been taken as sign of divine displeasure and the moment to stop…! |
Arjuna | 18 May 2022 9:26 a.m. PST |
It probably is taken serious by a lot of russians. Come on, a lot of them are buying that Ukraine Nazi bs. The advantage of believe systems is, you just need the right spin. So if I were some kind of spin doctor, I would advise Kirill that he should tell the common people the loss of a splinter of the true cross is a punishment for the lack of zeal of the sons of russia to defend the sacred earth. A splinter in God's Eye, so to say. And they're supposed to show a little more dedication, damn it. Voilà. Or, I would claim, its just a rumour spread by perverted, gay, Ukrainian Nato Nazi Psyops Junkies. The relic, of course, was never on board the Moskva. Never forget, we are not the intended audience of russian propaganda. |
ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa | 18 May 2022 10:01 a.m. PST |
I think it is different to an extent, as you say everything can be spun, but by and large the population and the leadership lack the kind of piety that characterised the medieval and early modern view of such things. By and large I'd suggest that the Russian Orthodox church's support is propped up by what might be termed cultural Christians. They support the cultural institution and reactionary politics, but aren't pious believers who might believe in divine providence or displeasure. Its going to get interesting once Russian media stops being the 'Ministry of Truth' and the non-metropolitan population begin to realise what really has happened! Unfortunately public opinion is fickle and dangerous. We could see mass demonstrations against Putin conversely we could get mass demonstrations demanding Ukraine be turned to radioactive glass. |
Grattan54 | 18 May 2022 11:02 a.m. PST |
I can't think of very many things that would be worst for morale than to leave your dead behind. Live soldiers are now thinking what happens to me if I am killed? |
Cherno | 18 May 2022 12:08 p.m. PST |
The presence of "mobile crematoria" has been debunked as myth. The photo in circulation from the beginning of the war was actually from the manufacturer of incinerators (for burning trash) and dates from 2013. |
pzivh43 | 18 May 2022 12:20 p.m. PST |
Interesting, Cherno. What is your source? |
Cherno | 18 May 2022 2:03 p.m. PST |
Interesting question. I would assume that strong evidence _for_ their presence would have to be brought forward instead of automatically assuming that the incinerators exis. Anyway, here are two sources that cover the claims by Ukrainian officials to varying degrees: link link tl;dr: so far, no credible evidence has unearthed, and the video and images dating from long before the war began support the notion that this was a (very effective) propaganda campaign. |
Uesugi Kenshin | 18 May 2022 3:07 p.m. PST |
Sadly this is true. There are literal mountains of bodies. |
optional field | 18 May 2022 4:40 p.m. PST |
"Let the dead bury their dead" is from the New Testament, not Karl Marx. |
42flanker | 18 May 2022 11:29 p.m. PST |
Recovery of the dead has been a luxury of counter insurgency campaigns since the second world war. After defeat and on hurried retreats, the dead were frequently left where they fell, or until a truce might be arranged to recover bodies. Since the American Civil War we have had the photographs to record that. |
Legion 4 | 19 May 2022 7:57 a.m. PST |
Since the American Civil War we have had the photographs to record that. Oh yes and in some cases it took a year or more to do it. Including the dead horses. That being said, this is not the 1860s, however, we are still looking for our MIAs since WWI & II, Korea, Vietnam, etc. |