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"River Crossing Fails" Topic


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716 hits since 10 May 2022
©1994-2022 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian10 May 2022 8:21 a.m. PST

In Bilohorivka, where the enemy tried to create a solid crossing and transfer equipment and personnel to our side, he was partially successful, but now all pontoon crossings have been destroyed, all equipment has been destroyed and the remaining personnel have either been killed or have fled by swimming across to the other side.

Ukrainian Pravda: link

Legion 410 May 2022 8:50 a.m. PST

River crossings are "challenging" … as I have done a number overseas and stateside during training. But if this is true … this is close to a disaster.

ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa10 May 2022 10:52 a.m. PST

Sounds like they chanced their arm thinking it was unopposed and ran into a Ukrainian unit. I would have thought an opposed crossing, without the appropriate numbers, support and co-ordination, would be verging on the suicidal.

soledad10 May 2022 11:26 a.m. PST

Unless you have troops on the opposite side (eg airborne units or such) in sufficient numbers I would call ANY other crossing opposed. In other words unless 100% sure it is not opposed treat it as opposed and allocate LOTS of support. Support it with everything you got, throw rocks if necessary.

When the bridges are in place defend it with everything, reuse thrown rocks…

Only even try it if you have enough resources.

Russians seems like experts at "taking a chance" and hope for the best. Reminds me of the attack on Hostomel airport in the beginning. A high risk chance that failed.

Legion 410 May 2022 4:12 p.m. PST

We'd use stealth to get across the river in RB-15 Rubber Boats. At night, then set up an NDP establishing a bridge head. While the CEs put the bridge(s) in place. Again, we tried to not do forced entry ops.

But any forced entry ops if not using stealth requires a lot of supporting fires, CAS, etc. E.g. Normandy …

Of course, seems the poorly trained & lead Russians seem to always roll snake eyes.

Cuprum2 Supporting Member of TMP10 May 2022 6:38 p.m. PST

On May 6, Russian artillery destroyed the Ukrainian pontoon bridge near the village of Zavgorodnee in the Izyum direction.

picture

YouTube link

soledad11 May 2022 10:57 a.m. PST

We can now all see pictures on the Russian crossing attempt. Complete massacre. 20+ combat vehicles destroyed so basically an entire BTG wiped out.

2-3 pontoon bridges destroyed. You can see holes in the bridge parts, probably from artillery hits.

@Legion 4. I would not say Russians rolled snake eyes. They try a crossing without the correct preparations and are punished for it. You do not "chance" a crossing, you do it correctly. Anything else is criminally stupid, like this.

Useless Russian officers and soldiers wasted for nothing. Losing at least one whole BTG, probably more than one though.

if this continues for a few weeks I believe the entire Russian front can/will collapse. Then Ukraine can really start to punish them bad.

I hope the Ukrainians reclaim all occupied territory including Krym.

Smash the Russians as much as possible so they are never a threat again, No mercy

Legion 411 May 2022 1:59 p.m. PST

Anything else is criminally stupid, like this.
That seems to be a Russian standard since the invasion.

Smash the Russians as much as possible so they are never a threat again, No mercy
That is what the US Sec Def said last week. Weaken Russia to the point that they can't do that again. And it makes sense … Putin and the other Russian leaders need to be punished for this crime. They are already in a quagmire.

But if Putin et al think their "empire" is going to fall. That may help him to decide to use tac nukes to get out of this quagmire. Which may be effective in the short run. But as we know fallout goes everywhere. Even into NATO nations.

No matter what when this is over, Russia will be held in contempt, with few friends or allies. Save for the PRC, Iran, Cuba, etc.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian12 May 2022 10:18 p.m. PST

Update: link

…"Bilohorivka is our new ‘Chornobaivka,' where the aggressors are trying to bridge pontoon crossings and move military equipment and personnel across the river. There is a unique situation, they herd like sheep into the same places over and over again."

"Our Armed Forces destroy pontoon crossings, equipment and personnel. There are dozens of units of BTR armoured vehicles, tanks and trucks lying around. You can already spot this with the naked eye."

…about 70 units of military equipment had been destroyed and dozens of invaders killed.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian12 May 2022 10:20 p.m. PST

On May 6, Russian artillery destroyed the Ukrainian pontoon bridge near the village of Zavgorodnee in the Izyum direction.

Makes no sense. Why would the Ukrainians be bridging the river? They're on the defensive on that front.

ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa13 May 2022 7:48 a.m. PST

Todays UK defence intelligence briefing confirms the action and their assessment is that an entire BTG got wasted – in both senses.
link

Legion 413 May 2022 8:41 a.m. PST

Why would the Ukrainians be bridging the river? They're on the defensive on that front.
Only if they planned on counter attacking/going on the offensive very shortly. However, I doubt the Russian report is accurate and more propaganda, etc.

entire BTG got wasted
They have lost how many BTGs so far …? From what I can tell this is not how you win a war.

ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa13 May 2022 10:51 a.m. PST

They have lost how many BTGs so far …? From what I can tell this is not how you win a war.

I defer to your professional experience. For myself when playing with toy soldiers I've tended to find taking heavy losses results in a lost game and the history books I've read tell if that happens I'm doing it wrong!

Personal logo javelin98 Supporting Member of TMP13 May 2022 10:51 a.m. PST

US Army engineers follow a doctrine called SOSR: Suppress, Obscure, Secure, Reduce. When bridging, you should suppress any overwatching enemy forces through direct and indirect fire. Then you cover the entire site with smoke. The third step is moving units across the river (fording, swimming, or barge) to secure the site from enemy counterattack. Then the pontoons or ribbon bridge would be deployed and used to start enabling the crossing of follow-on forces.

The suppress and obscure steps should continue to be applied until the follow-on forces have pushed the enemy back to the point where the bridging site is no longer under direct threat. Even then, bridging engineers should continue to widen the bridgehead by putting in more bridges at intervals where an air strike or artillery called on one wouldn't affect the others. In Korea, our bridge units would put in place five or six bridges (first ribbon bridges, then Baileys) along a kilometer front, so that if a single bridge is taken out, maneuver units could continue to push across the river on the others.

Legion 413 May 2022 4:49 p.m. PST

I defer to your professional experience.
My instructors at ROTC, Benning, Campbell, etc., would be pleased to hear that … 😎
For myself when playing with toy soldiers I've tended to find taking heavy losses results in a lost game and the history books I've read tell if that happens I'm doing it wrong!
Sounds about right … 😁

Javelin +1 Yes, that is how I remember it from training. As you pointed out/outlined and I posted before – any forced entry ops if not using stealth requires a lot of supporting fires, CAS, etc. A river crossing can certainly be a forced entry ops. As posted – SOSR …

In the ROK when on the DMZ, we "wargamed", trained, practiced withdrawing from FOB Warrior Base. The Imjin R. was behind us. Pretty much the way it was since '53, AFAIK.

There were two bridges in sector we would use to cross. Plus, there was a CE bridging unit in our Bde AO. So we'd have 3 bridges to cross. Of course our M113s could swim. If the bridges were gone. All the crews of the rolling stock & AFVs that could not swim. Would have to spike their vehicles and swim the Imjin. As we had the mission in the summer, Thank God ! That was my mission to get all the rolling stock, and AFVs that could not swim to cross those 3 bridges. Glad we never had to do it under fire …

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian15 May 2022 2:32 a.m. PST

In its own tweet, Ukraine's Ministry of Defense said "artillerymen of the 17th tank brigade of the #UAarmy have opened the holiday season" for the Russian army, as "some bathed in the Siverskyi Donets River, and some were burned by the May sun."

Why would artillerymen be so far forward?

Legion 415 May 2022 12:13 p.m. PST

Generally, they wouldn't, but we don't know the overall tactical situation on the ground. However, the FA does have long range and may have just been called in using indirect fires. With Infantry and FOs spotting as usual. Does it say anywhere that the FA fired directly ?

Pendekar15 May 2022 1:07 p.m. PST

link

Comments from Igor Girkin / Strelkov on the failed river crossing.

Maybe? Interesting view at least.

As for the mentioned Colonel Stepanishev. I couldn't find his current status, but this article reports that he lost his legs in 2015 (in the mentioned action presumably). Is he still serving as a General in charge of Kharkiv as suggested?
link

Druzhina15 May 2022 4:52 p.m. PST

"artillerymen of the 17th tank brigade of the #UAarmy have opened the holiday season" for the Russian army, as "some bathed in the Siverskyi Donets River, and some were burned by the May sun."

Why would artillerymen be so far forward?

This sounds like a joke. It is the Russians that have been sent for a swim.
There is a resort near the crossing point.

A summary of the crossing attempt by Dan: So the RuAF Bilohorivka crossing was a disaster.

1 BTG from 74 Guards Motor Rifle Bde and 1 BTG from 35 MR Bde probably destroyed.

Druzhina
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