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"Napoleonic Russian infantry shoulder straps?" Topic


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BoneyLegs10 May 2022 1:47 a.m. PST

How do I figure them out from an ORBAT, for example Borodino?

link


The various guides say shoulder straps vary by regiment seniority within a division. Then what I see in the ORBAT are brigades…

So how to figure out what shoulder straps colour is needed for the following IRs, for example, and what about 1st and 3rd battalions within the regiment? Same?

2nd Infantry Corps
4th Division: MG Prince Eugene von Wurttemberg
1st Brigade: MG Ignatii Rossi (W)[3]
Tobolsk IR (1st and 3rd battalions): Colonel Peter Schroeder[4]
Volhynia IR (1st and 3rd battalions): MG Ignatii Rossi (W)[5]
2nd Brigade: Colonel Dmitry Pyshnitsky
Kremenchug IR (1st and 3rd battalions): Colonel Dmitry Pyshnitsky
Minsk IR (1st and 3rd battalions): Colonel Aleksey Krasavin (W).[6]
3rd Brigade: Colonel Yegor Pillar
34th Jaeger Regiment (1st and 3rd battalions): Colonel Yegor Pillar
4th JR (1st and 3rd battalions): Major Karl Heideken.[7]

Michman10 May 2022 3:50 a.m. PST

"1st and 3rd battalions within the regiment?" – yes, same shoulder straps for all elements of a regiment

The Jäger numbers are the order of seniority in 1812 :
--- senior Jäger – here 4th Jäger : yellow with red "4."
--- junior Jäger – here 34th Jäger (ex- Vilna Musketeers) : azure with yellow "4."

"fun fact" : 4th Jäger regiment was the only regiment whose shoulder strap number (for the division) was the same as their regimental number.

The order of seniority of heavy infantry was published from time to time.
For early 1812 :
--- Tobolsk Infantry (No. 21 – 1706) : red with yellow "4."
--- Volhynia Infantry (No. 64 – 1803) : white with red "4."
--- Kremenchug Infantry (No. 71 – 1806) : yellow with red "4."
--- Minsk Infantry (No. 72 – 1806) : dark green piped red with yellow "4."

The six 2nd Grenadier companies (from the 2nd Replacement battalions) of the division formed two Combined Grenadier battalions of three companies each. These companes kept their usual shoulder straps.

Excellent resource in English : link

14Bore10 May 2022 4:18 p.m. PST

As per link Jagers changed colors of shoulder straps so watch years if you care

Murvihill10 May 2022 5:04 p.m. PST

I think battalions were marked by their pompoms, white with a green dot for 1st and green with a white dot for third?

Cuprum2 Supporting Member of TMP10 May 2022 6:56 p.m. PST

picture

A (A) – the first battalion (grenadiers, riflemen, 1st, 2nd, 3rd companies);
B (Б) – second battalion;
V (В) – third battalion.

Pompoms and tassels

Michman11 May 2022 12:09 a.m. PST

@14Bore –
Yes, agreed. The senior yellow/ junior azure applies from 20 July 1809 and was likely effected within 2-3 months.

Pompons & swordknots :
The scheme above was planned in early 1812. However, because of more pressing "issyes" was not implemented until after the peace in 1814 (as new, "presentable" uniforms were rushed to the rather ragged-looking troops in France) and not fullly adopted until early 1817.

The correct repartition of pompons is as shown at the link :
--- 1st Shef's battalion : 3 center companies' pompon white with green center, grenadier platoon all red, marksmen platoon all yellow
--- 3rd Commander's battalion : 3 center companies' pompon red with yellow center, grenadier platoon red over yellow, marksmen platoon yellow over red
--- 2nd Replacement battalion : 3 center companies' pompon green with yellow center
--- 2nd Grenadier company : grenadier platoon red over green, marksmen platoon yellow over green
--- 4th Reserve/Recruit battalion : 3 center companies' no pompon

"riflemen"
Better : "marksmen"
The most heavily rifle-armed units (low-numbered Jäger regiments) might have had a battalion's complement of rifles in 1798 … but these would have included weapons made over a decade earlier as well as newer model 1798 Jäger rifles. No new rifles were issued after 1808.
By 1812, most units were all musket-armed.
Low-numbered Jäger seem to have kept rifles for NCO's (Model 1805 Jäger rifles if available) – and 12 men (4 files) per each platoon, with perhaps a few more in the "marksmen" platoon (Model 1798 or Model 1805).

14Bore11 May 2022 1:38 a.m. PST

Cuprum nice graphic, made s much less detail but in same vein when doing Russian units.
Generally my if my units are 1809 – 1812 uniform are good to go.

Cuprum2 Supporting Member of TMP11 May 2022 3:11 a.m. PST

picture

The correct option is the third row from the top, on the left.

14Bore11 May 2022 12:43 p.m. PST

That's good, anyone doing Russians print and keep that above the paint table

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