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"Annoying little brother asks... basing" Topic


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FASAfan06 May 2022 4:23 p.m. PST

So just pretend I'm your annoying little brother. I'm going to ask some questions, I'm sure, they will make your grognard hearts skip a beat in their ignorance. That said…

I've been wanting to game the ACW in miniature ever since my friend and I played a Fire and Fury 1st day Gettysburg at a FLGS in November 1991! Over the years I dreamed and made very small steps towards playing, but have yet to do so.

In the intervening years, my eyes have gotten bad. I've enjoyed model building and fantasy miniature painting, but it's just not for me now. I've decided give ACW a try, but with paper miniatures.

That said:

One thing that I think is a barrier to newbies is basing. So, here's the annoying brother question: What difference does basing make? Why worry too much about size as along as it's consistent? Why worry about two, three or four miniatures on a stand if they abstractly represent X number of men anyway?

I know that certain game systems require removing stands to reflect casualties, so I can understand certain aspects there…

Any magic keys to helping understand why basing is such a huge deal in the wargaming community? Thank goodness for paper miniatures, really: if I had to worry about basing for painted metal/plastic, I'd be paralyzed.

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP06 May 2022 4:37 p.m. PST

I'm not hung up on basing, generally speaking, especially if both sides are based the same. Basing is generally something that can be worked around in a gentleman's agreement.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP06 May 2022 4:54 p.m. PST

OK. Let me try, and then everyone can say how wrong I am. Wargames involve losses--people killed, wounded, ran away or whatever. We need to keep track of them. We also need to know who's fighting who--what units are involved--and we need to know what sort of troops are fighting--massed units, skirmishers or whatever. Depending on the rules, basing gets involved in all three of those.

Start with casualties. You can either keep track of all losses with tokens or paper, keep track of them by removing entire bases, keep track by marking certain castings on a stand as "dead" or--and yes, I've seen it done--some combination of those. Different numbers of figures on a base can really mess up keeping track of individual losses.

Keeping track of who's fighting who is less of a hassle--as long as everyone is using the same basing. But the choice of basing limits you to opponents who base the same way. If your bases have a frontage of 1" and your opponent has different frontages depending on the number of men in his regiment, which would be normal for the Johnny Reb series in the ACW, for instance--well you can see the problems. There are also tactical problems if the rules assume 100 men occupy a 1" base on the table, and now those 100 men occupy a 2" base. Other distances would need to be adjusted or you get some tactical distortions.

And there are rules like the DBA series which use the number of castings on the stand to keep track of what sort of unit it is, so if you don't abide by the conventions of those rules, you drive everyone else nuts.

Those are practical problems. But it's a visual hobby, so there are aesthetic ones as well. People complain about the "Empire" series where the very small units in single rank look more like color guards than battalions. I myself have grumbled that the very common 4 castings on a 1" base often used in 15mm ACW rules looks like a four-rank deep line (not seen since the 18th Century) if I use such castings in F&F Regimental. The game would still play, you understand: it's the appearance I object to. But if appearance didn't matter to us, presumably we'd be using cardboard counters--or computers.

So the answer is IF
1) both armies use the same frontage bases,
2) all bases of the same troop type represent the same number of men in the same formation, and
3) either it's the same base width the rules are written for, or other distances have been altered to correspond
Then it doesn't matter for gaming purposes. The appearance may matter to you or your opponent--or may not.

But a lot of times those three conditions aren't met.

Lucius06 May 2022 6:25 p.m. PST

If 15mm, just base everything 1"×1" and don't worry about how many figures are on a base.

If your rules won't work with that, find different rules.

Seriously.

JSchutt07 May 2022 6:15 a.m. PST

"Game vs Simulation" has something to do with it. The scale of the battle has a lot to do with it also. The time period represented has a lot to do with it even more important. A question that requires a thesis to answer well. For the most part simulations favor detail where "the space a unit controls" is very important so a unit must reduce its footprint while "games" rely more on footprint abstractions where this concept looses out to speed of play and general advantage rules the day. A compex question requiring far more words than might initially be imagined. Which is why there are so many systems with broad appeal.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP07 May 2022 1:54 p.m. PST

Lucius, I do something similar. But he didn't ask "how should I base my troops?" He asked "why is this a huge deal?"

I'd also advise anyone not basing to conform to his regular wargaming group to check around and find out what bridges a basing decision burns. But then I really hate rebasing.

Ed Mohrmann Supporting Member of TMP07 May 2022 1:56 p.m. PST

FASAfan – with respect to the ACW the consistent size
of bases for different types of troops is what counts,
along with ensuring that each side uses the same
basing scheme as regards size.

The number of figures on the base usually matters only
if the formation is dismounted cavalry (fewer figures
since some are designated horse holders) or infantry
in skirmish order (and even then just if the rules
treat skirmishers differently than formed infantry)

The other exception could be artillery. My rules use
2 model guns and 4 figures (unbased) to represent a
section and 2 or 3 sections to represent a battery.

Asfar as how many figures to put on a base, do what
looks right UNLESS you are playing rules which lock
you into a given ratio (1 figure = N men).

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP08 May 2022 11:53 a.m. PST

Agree that as long as both sides use the same base size no big deal – I have gone to Fire and Fury size after using Johnny Reb for years so needed some re-basing of older units; but we also use the F & F bases when we play using Black Powder

Personal logo Old Contemptible Supporting Member of TMP02 Aug 2022 6:26 p.m. PST

Base your figures according to the instructions in your rules. But don't use "Johnny Reb." The basing in those rules are crazy and will only serve to frustrate a newbie. For that matter it confuses some experience players.

I would recommend "Mr. Lincoln's War" as your rule set.

link

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