"Help regarding russian inf flags" Topic

Hi sorry, i am confused as to what the white flag was for russian infantry (1803-1813). I am looking on this helfpful site
link

and it says white flags on left and coloured on the right, however i am not sure if that is referring to the flag graphic below or is just an instruction as to how the flags were placed.
i thought it was the former but then i see that these 8 flags are for the 8 regiments listed, so they cant be the white flag can they?
what is this white flag, can someone direct me to pictures of it that would be able to clarify things for me and show me what i actually need to make them look like?

The white flags are not pictured on that page. Look here:

tmg110.tripod.com/ruia3.htm

Hi Georg

Confusing isn't it.

The Empire of Russia website is a bit incomplete as well as confusing.

I hope this description is a bit clearer. This is basically true for all nations in general.

An infantry regiment had several flags traditionally one per company with each company having a captain in charge. The 1st company was commanded by the regimental colonel and often the second company was commanded by the regimental major. All the other companies had a captain in charge.

Each company had its own colour (flag).

The 1st company (colonels company) had a 'white' flag which was predominately white with additional details like crests and distinctions.

All the other companies had a 'coloured' flag which was similar to the colonels flag with the white parts replaced with the regimental colour (often the same colour as the facings colour).

In wargame terms this is normally represented by infantry units having two model flags. A 1st battalion would have one 'white' flag and one 'coloured' flag. Other battalions would have two 'coloured' flags. The reason being that a multi battalion regiment would only have one colonel deployed with the 1st battalion.

The colonels colour was placed in the position of honour ie on the right facing forward.

Hope this helps.

Jim

Of course, some countries did it differently in some periods, ie France under the Empire and British Guards.

During this period, the banners of three different types were used in the Russian army: 1797, 1800 and 1803. All of them had different differences from each other.
The white (regimental) banner always had a "white cross", but the "corners could have different colors depending on which sample the banner was used.

Banners of the Nizhny Novgorod regiment, model 1797.

You also see the different patterns at the Warflag/NapFlags web site.

Russian general page -- link

Then scroll down for the various years and regiments.

Jim

Thanks for the help, that tripod page is good , though the white flag there looks to be the same for each regiment, however I think for the 6mm scale I would be fine to make them all the same perhaps

just one more query if anyone can help as that warflags page also doesnt seem to list any flags for russian cavalry – did russian cavalry not have flags, or have these just not been listed on the site.

did Russian hussars carry any flags/guidons/fanions etc

"did Russian hussars carry any"

None issued under Emperor Paul or by Alexander before the peace in 1814. However, some regiments were issued standards under Catherine, and these may have been retained.

In general, Russians issued flags or cavalry standards on a unit by unit basis – not changing flags wholesale for each new design. What regiments are of interest to you ?

For the given example regiment, the Nizhny Novgorod musketeers, on 15 November 1798, they were given 10 Model 1797 banners, one with white cross, 9 colored. The green color was "celedon" green – a light tone recalling Chinese celedon ceramics. The flagstaves were coffee-colored.

The regiment was then organized as : 2 battalions, each of 5 musketeer companies – plus 2 grenadier companies. The musketeer companies each received one banner, the white banner with the first company of the first battalion. The grenadier companies served separately in a combined grenadier battalion, which was in Italy in 1799, and which did not any banner.

From 31 October 1798 to 29 March 1801, the regiment was named after its chief officer.

The regiment was re-organized on 30 April 1802 : now 1 Grenadier battalion and 2 Muskteer battalions (each of 4 companies). The first was given the white and a colored banner, the latter two were each given 2 colored banners. 4 colored banners were returned to arsenal storage.

On 4 May 1806, the regiment was assigned to the 13th Infantry division, on campaign against the Turks.

The regiment was re-organized on 12 October 1810 : now 3 numbered battalions (each of 1 Grenadier flank company and 3 Musketeer center companies). The first battalion was given the white and a colored banner, the other two were each given 2 colored banners.

On 17 January 1811, the regiment was transferred to the 26th Infantry division, in 7th Infantry corps, 2nd Western army.

On 22 February 1811, the regiment was re-named Nizhny Novgorod infantry.

From 16 March 1811, a fourth reserve/recruit battalion of the regiment was formed at the 26th Infantry division's recruit depot at Romny (mid-way between Kiev and Kharkov). This fourth battalion had no banner.

From 14 March 1812, the regiment's 2nd "replacement" battalion was used to fill up the 1st "chief's" battalion and 3rd "commander's battalion, and then its 3 musketeer companies, together with those of the 2nd battalions of the other regiments of the 26th division, formed a second-line brigade assigned to the garrison of Bobruysk fortress. This reduced 2nd battalion retained its two banners. The 2nd grenadier company was formed with 2 other similar companies of the 26th division into a combined grenadier battalion, which served as part of the 2nd Combined Grenadier division of the 8th Infantry corps, 2nd Western army. This combined grenadier battalion had no banner.

In 1813, while the forces were outside the country, regiments in the Guards and Grenadier regiments were ordered to keep only one colored flag in each battalion. This was likely also followed by regular Infantry regiments, although the formal order to this effect was not issued until 31 August 1814. Also in 1813, the 4th reserve/recruit battalion and the combined grenadier battalion were dissolved and their survivors used to rebuild other battalions.

In 1824, the regiment received three new (colored) banners of the Model 1816.