"Russia Has Already Lost The Ukraine War" Topic

Mussolini was not a Marxist he was a Socialist.

Of course he was a Marxist!

In 1908 he wrote "The Doctrine of Marx" , published in Avanti!. In this article, Mussolini praised Marx as the greatest modern theorist of socialism, writing:

"Marx is the supreme theorist of socialism, the one who has most deeply thought through its structure and the one who has most fully drawn the logical conclusions of the class struggle."
(Avanti! was the official newspaper of the Italian Socialist Party, where Mussolini was a leading writer.)

Speech in Forlì, 1910 (socialist rally)
Mussolini declared Marx "the unshakable base" of the socialist movement and emphasized the importance of class struggle — consistent with orthodox Marxist doctrine.

Articles in Avanti! (1912–1914)
Throughout this period, Mussolini repeatedly praised Marx's theories, especially his analysis of capitalism and the historical necessity of socialism.

Then he became a Fascist. If Fascism and Nazism are left wing then why did the Socialist kick Mussolini out of their party? Why did Hitler round up all the socialists and Communists?

Because they were competing variants of Socialism. You didn't really read what I wrote, or you'd have seen how Fascist thinkers were all Marxists and Socialists who believed in Socialism, but who also felt that Marxism had proven to be a dead end, and was in the way if achieving real Socialism. And Hitler got rid of competing factions, Just like Lenin and Stalin wiped out competing communist factions during the Bolshevik Revolution and the rise of the USSRM including the Mensheviks, Socialist Revolutionaries, anarchists, Workers' Opposition, Left Communists, and Trotskyists. And during the Cold War Soviet Communism and Mao's Chinese Communism competed for ideological and geopolitical influence across the communist world, and as competing insurgent factions in SE Asia, the Philippines, Africa, etc.

Why did the nazis attack Russia and call it the great crusade to end Communism?

Bunch of reason, one of which is that Communism was a competitor to Fascism, and of course Hitlerian dreams of imperial ambition. But this no different from the Communist USSR's actions when it invaded Poland, Finland, etc.

Why did the Spanish Civil War see the fascists on the side of the right-wing Nationalists?

Survival. Remember when the Communists butchered Spanish priests and civil authority figures who were not aligned with the Fascists, but were declared to be ideological enemies of Communism? It's called "The Red Terror" and the Communists murdered some 7,000 priests and burned scores of Churches and Monasteries. During the Red Terror the Communists murdered about 70,000 to 80,0000 people -- businessmen, civil servants, teachers, journalists, and normal people who just protested them or sometimes who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. What side do you think they ended up supporting, the Communists killing them or anybody else who would protect them?

This idea that Nazism or fascism is left is just ridiculous.

No, it just hits you in the moral spot, don't it? An inconvenient truth…

Both argued for ardent nationalism which is totally opposed to socialism and communisms view of class warfare and unity of the workers.

First, ALL Communist regimes act just like the Fascists in nationalistic appeals -- whether it's the USSR's call for to support The Motherland, or for The New Soviet Man, and one of Castro's cries was "Por la Patria!" – For the Fatherland!

Nazism and Fascism are pro-capitalism as an economic system.

No -- I just quoted you CHAPTER AND VERSE from that stupid Fascism philosophy book so I could appeal to your sense of reason. The Fascists are quite clear that they considered Capitalism and Liberal Democracy to be the enemies of the Working Class and of Socialism. They are very clear that the STATE controls ALL ASPECTS OF THE ECONOMY and SOCIETY! What's confusing to you is that while the Communists shot the businessmen and replaced them to take direct control of the means of production, the Fascists forced the businessmen to comply (or be shot or imprisoned) to provide the State with control of the means of the production through them.The controlling core economic principle was Corporatism -- the control of the economy and thus the nation via control over industrial leaders and the Unions. Rather than sieze corporations and run them from the State, as in Communism, Fascism controlled industry by co-opting and forcing industrial leaders to bend to the will of the Socialist State and become part of the ruling party structure. The working class was led and controlled by the State through the Unions. So under Corporatism, companies and labor Unions become part of the State's power apparatus -- those Unions and companies that did not bend to the will of the State were crushed.

Property was also allowed so long as it didn't conflict with the needs of the State, and the Individual was subordinate to the needs of the State -- true freedom, according to Mussolini, came from surrender of the Individual to the State.

Communism and Fascism are both expressions of Socialism.

Hitler did not care about the ideas of socialism or communism. One-man nationalism rule needs scapegoats, Jews, communists in Hitler's case. Pseudo religious devotion to one man. Give the people enough to eat and some entertainment. Nazis are a cult of personality. They have always been considered far right by most scholars as far as I know. The first time I ever heard "left wing Nazis" was from Bill O'Reilly on Fox.

SB the reason they have trouble accepting your information is because of the racist theories of the Nazi philosophy. There has been an indoctrination that ONLY RIGHT WING individuals can be Facists/racists.

Racism knows no political philosophy or race, nor even religion.

What I find ironic:

Both the Ukraine and Russia are considered Slavs, yet both sides accuse the other of being Nazis. What was the Nazi belief of the Slavic people?

"The Nazi ideology regarding Slavic people was based on racist and dehumanizing beliefs. They considered most Slavs to be "Untermenschen" (subhumans), a classification that placed them at the bottom of the Nazi racial hierarchy, just above Jews and Roma (Gypsies). This belief was deeply rooted in various sources, including: "

"Nazi racial theories: These theories claimed the superiority of the German "Aryan race" over other peoples. Slavs were deemed inferior due to supposed racial mixing and loss of racial purity, according to these pseudo-scientific beliefs."

So how can they be true Nazis? They are not pure Aryan. Are they some new form of political group? One that believes "All Slavs are equal, but some Slavs are more equal than others". 😉 No matter what their beliefs, they are not true "Nazis". But hey! in our country the left and Democrats call anyone who does not believe as they do, or accept their political philosophies…. Nazis. So who can blame everyone else from being confused?

It is becoming a word with no real meaning.

35th OVI +1

Hitler did not care about the ideas of socialism or communism.

Really? Then why did he join the Red Army of the Bavarian Soviet State and flirt with Communism before joining the National Socialist German Workers' Party? Adolf Hitler‘s longstanding chauffeur and first leader of the Schutzstaffel (SS) Julius Schreck, signed up and served as a member of the Bavarian Red Army in late April 1919, where they met. When Hitler left the Red Army, Schreck followed him to the NSDAP.

In order to hold that view, Tortorella, you have to basically ignore his own words, speeches and articles where he clearly identifies as a Socialist, rejects Capitalism and Liberal Democracy, he even accepts many of Marx's tenets but firmly rejects Communism as the wrong path to Socialism. It's boring and tedious for sure, but reading that nutball's words tells you what he thought about Socialism.

There is a lot to unpack here as there often is on this topic. Hitler said a lot of stuff, but he was really a crazy cult figure and his party was a hierarchy based on race, power, and quasi-religious nationalism.

Hitler's expedient use of socialism was a cover for his own agenda, darker, personal. Socialism is a class construct, but Hitler cared more about race than class by a long shot and race still defines his movement for most historians. He sought out and rejected socialism and Marxism as they did not fit his personal obsessions. Gregor Strasser, the true socialist in the party, was executed for it early on by Hitler, and liberals, socialists, and Marxists were early Dachau prisoners. By the mid-1930s thousand of socialists had disappeared.

The relatively recent political revisionist work to move Nazism from the extreme right to the left, where socialism and communism as systems for dealing with class structure reside, is its own story. The implication seems to be that all bad ideologies are on the left and the right is pure American.

Left or right, authoritarian figures arise despite the labels, and they themselves are often their main priorities. There is little difference among them whatever dysfunctional ideology they wrap themselves in for public consumption. All my opinion… I do not insist that I am right and you are wrong. This a longstanding conversation.

There is a lot to unpack here as there often is on this topic.

LOL. Just say next time you're not really going to engage honestly. I mean, I gave you QUOTES and facts and sources and you replied back with the tired old generic left-University professor spiel with zero critical thought and zero intellectual engagement by you. And the revisionism has always been moving Fascism from Left to Right to CYA for those on the Left who had admired it as "The Third Way" between Communism and Capitalism, and who put Mussolini and Hitler on the cover of Time Magazine.

I mean, did you know that Hitler had been a Communist before becoming a Fascist? That he rejected Capitalism and embraced Socialism -- first as a Communist, and then like Mussolini and many other disillusioned Leftists did, felt Communism was the wrong path to Socialism. Both Mussolini and Hitler followed this path from Communism to Fascism, though Hitler added his own race-obsessed variant to Nazism.

But every other aspect of Nazism is Socialism -- State control of the means of production, State control over society, the rejection of Free Market Capitalism and Liberal Democracy, etc.

Communism = International Socialism
Fascism = National Socialism
Nazism = National Socialism for only ethnic Germans

And ALL of the big Leftists leaders of the 20th Century developed Cults of Personality and killed internal challengers to their rule.

Btw, I held the "Standard" view as well up until Senior year or so in college many moons ago when I was taking a PoliSci class on the rise of the great Dictators of the 20th century. We started off with the Communists, Stalin and Mao. Then we turned to the Fascists starting with Mussolini and I was surprised to learn about his past as a Marxist and the editor of Avanti, his disillusionment with Communism and how Fascism evolved from disaffected Socialists and Marxists, and has at its core the key tenets of Socialism, and how hostile they were Capitalism and Liberal Democracy… so I see them as two sides of the same coin of totalitarian Socialism.

Anyways, at least we both like tacos!

FWIW … I think too many times especially from the media. The Hitler, stormtroopers, Nazi etc. analogy is waaay overused. And in most cases very inaccurate.

E.g. How many times recently in the media, local Gov'ts, members of Congress, etc., have used those words with the NG being Federalized by the POTUS to assist LAPD, LEOs, etc. to stop/limit damage the Anti-ICE rioting in LA, etc. ?

Did they forget the BLM and Antifa riots in 2020 ? And some in the media and Congress, etc. still saying its mostly peaceful ? Just like in the last Admin, constantly saying, "the border is secure" … 😯

I've secured a couple of borders and coastlines when I was in the Army … That ani't it !

You are right SB, there is a lot to dig up and it's been a while.i was not trying to be dishonest, what point? But we are definitely not on the same page. Whatever Hitler literally said or did in his early days quickly turned into his own personal insane take on power, destiny, race, nationalist megalomania. Not socialism.

I get what you are saying, but I don't agree with you, and I do not think that the evidence regarding what bunch Hitler joined or quit, what he wrote or said amounts to a valid conclusion about his socialism. I won't repeat myself about what happened to German socialists almost as soon as he had power.

I do believe however that neither American liberals or conservatives have anything to do with any of this except on the outer fringes. Legion is right. Although I haven't heard anyone say it about the NG issue, which is really about control and power. But it really doesn't fit American politics on either side, IMO.

Whatever Hitler literally said or did in his early days quickly turned into his own personal insane take on power, destiny, race, nationalist megalomania. Not socialism.

Meh, ALL of his economic actions were Socialist throughout his time in power, and every Communist leader everywhere has always ended up in a megolomaniacal cult of personality.

I won't repeat myself about what happened to German socialists almost as soon as he had power.

Same as Lenin did as soon as he had power… the same as Mao did… the same as Castro did… the same as Pol Pot did… wipe out all competing Socialist and Communist factions.

You might make that economic case in some ways, although the extensive use of slave labor was not socialism.

I still think its a stretch. Hitler always saw people as a means to an end, with fealty to him at the core of his Party. He used socialism, did not believe it, and snuffed it out after he did not need it.

You might make that economic case in some ways, although the extensive use of slave labor was not socialism.

The Soviets did it…the Nazis did it…Castro did it… Pol Pot did it… Mussolini did it…Xi does it today in China.

That's because under Socialism EVERYONE must NECESSARILY be reduced to slave status in order for the State to centrally control all of Society to implement Socialis ideals and policies.

The State MUST suppress Free Will, and it will decide what work you will do, where you will work, what you will be paid, where you will live, what food you can eat, if and how you can travel, if you can go to school and what school you will go to, what music you can listen to, what movies you can see, what books and news you can read.

To Socialists, your life is only as value as the utility you bring to the State, you are a cog in the machine, you are expendable and it's easy to just go all the way to Forced Labor camp slavery. And they do, every time.

Hitler always saw people as a means to an end, with fealty to him at the core of his Party.

And Lenin and Stalin did not? Mao did not? Castro did not? Pol Pot did not? Is Xi any different?

Let's take this from a different angle. 🤔

If you are one who believes Fascism/Nazism is a right wing political philosophy, explain your reasoning why, with examples and back up.

SB has set down his reasons with examples as to why it's a leftist political theory on numerous occasions.

It's interesting, everything Google AI when asked why, returns reasons that can be used just as easily for communism.

That's my point SB! Nobody ever made communism or socialism work. Authoritarians may use it to hide their crimes or for scapegoating. These beliefs have always been the bogeymen. McCarthy for example.

And if the Dems are all socialists, where are the slaves? Plenty of Republican businessmen have employed illegals just as the Dems have. But they all get wages, pay payroll taxes, probably even the illegal kids in the meat packing plants.

35th, facism is an extremist ideology which has never been a part of American government no matter conservatives or liberal – or the great mass of those in the middle. While Trump does some weird stuff, like provoking a rival by sending Marines to LA, he is in no way a facist. He does have some authoritarian tendencies. But he is not an extremist any more than FDR was..both are about more centralized control of everything.

Oh…as I said above, I don't thing fascism is a right wing thing….its an extremist right wing thing marked by one man rule, authority and order to the max, while the left is supposedly more about equality and social justice – BUT it rarely gets there when it becomes extreme such as the far left anarchy of Antifa.

IMO …These extremes are really not that prominent in America, but the language is used as bait to provoke confrontation and division by both sides. This is causing a growth of an independent and moderate voting block estranged from both parties, but aligned with individuals at election time.

And if the Dems are all socialists, where are the slaves? Plenty of Republican businessmen have employed illegals just as the Dems have. But they all get wages, pay payroll taxes, probably even the illegal kids in the meat packing plants.

Yep, wrong all around! Oh, and we're embroiled right now about Democrat plantation workers, aren't we? Democrats have imported tens of millions of low-skilled, low-education illegal aliens from 3rd world countries to work plantation labor conditions in their fields, clean their homes and as one D-politician said, "wipe their a$$es." This is their core new constituency – controlled via racial politics and welfare, farmed for votes via mass mail-in balloting without chain of custody or signature, and since Biden changed the Census to count illegals, they represent up to x27 seats in the House.

This is why we have Democrat provoked and supported riots in LA and coming soon to a Big Blue City near you! And adding to that is their desire to undercut Trump's economic successes -- they hope a new Summer of Love will reverse the nation's economic gains that they can then blame on Trump in order to help in the 2026 mid-terms. Could be they launched this too soon…

Ukraine Evolving to Survive

"When a country is at war and the situation becomes desperate, speedy innovation is the only way out. Ukraine managed to adapt because its population contains a higher number of technically adept people than Russia or most Western nations. Ukraine also put most of its drone production operations underground. This includes warehouses for storing drone components and areas where new drone technology can be developed and current drone use and operations can be monitored.

Ukraine also uses bottom-up control of drone use. Platoon commanders and members of that platoon are allowed to make drone use decisions on the spot. That includes when and how often to use electronic jamming and other countermeasures. Worse for the Russians is that the Ukrainians are significantly faster at updating and modifying their drone designs and tactics. Whoever is first to use a new technology or tactic tends to prevail

Russian soldiers still wait for orders before acting. No orders mean nothing happens on the Russian side. This is one reason the Russians are running out of infantry. Russia can barely cover the thousand kilometers front line, and the current number of Russian ground attacks is miniscule…"

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Armand

Hegseth announced that the US will be less supportive of peace in Ukraine and will focus its efforts on achieving greater civilian casualties in Ukraine? If I understand correctly.

This is a big step forward, so something is promised to be done for peace. It was recently said that after Biden's peace support ended, Trump is firmly against peace and only demands a total victory for Putin.

Just saw where the Russian economy is on the verge of stagflation. This is when the US and our allies should be hitting Russia hard on the economic front. This could bring success and an ending of the war.

Sho Boki IMO you are incorrect in your last post … Let it play out … I think I talked this before … so no need to again.

The US is the last best hope for ending both wars in Ukraine and Gaza …

Anybody have a better idea ?

Sho Boki IMO you are incorrect in your last post … Let it play out … I think I talked this before … so no need to again.

The US is the last best hope for ending both wars in Ukraine and Gaza …

Anybody have a better idea ?

An iron cage match between Zelensky and Putin? 1 knife only. 2 men enter, 1 man leaves?

"The US is the last best hope for ending both wars in Ukraine and Gaza …"

That is correct. And as Grattan54 says, now is the best time for that.

Just give it a little more time … Putin has painted himself in a corner. He can just keep taking losses … The Ukraine should get continued support from US/NATO. I've said this before, every Russian and North Korean that Ukraine kills. They are doing the West a favor …

The POTUS will generally let the IDF finish off Hamas, etc. and turn Gaza into Carthage. Never should the Palestinians or anyone else occupy Gaza again. As it will only turn into a place for islamic terrorists to attack from again. We have seen this movie too many times already.

The Real Reason Putin Won't Use Nuclear Weapons In Ukraine

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Armand

Russia has now suffered over 1 million casualties. How is that three-day special operation going???

Russia has now suffered over 1 million casualties. How is that three-day special operation going???

If it was an evaluated training exercise … Vlad and his Russians – Would get a Big NO GO … 👎👎

Book Review | Putin's Wars: From Chechnya to Ukraine

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Armand