"Russia Has Already Lost The Ukraine War" Topic

And another UK swipe at Trump, when they have enough splinters in their own eyes to blind themselves

Yeah, nobody is impressed by Prime Minister Coke-Snort from Britain.

SB

"They didn't care. I still don't think they care, I think they are just using Ukraine to keep attacking Russia for an end purpose I don't understand."

Don't underestimate globalism. They did obtain additional expansion of NATO, which the globalists have longed for. I'm sure there were economic reasons for politicians as well. Someone gets rich when you have to replenish military stockpiles, at inflated prices.

Ooh touchy! I'll keep swiping at Trump until he actually does something that benefits anyone other than his billionaire cronies, or even makes a decision that he actually sticks by three weeks later.
You worry that China is the real threat to your world domination? Shouldn't have cut the foreign aid budget then.

Then you aren't keeping up. He actually has done a lot. Would be a lot more if blue state judges would stay out of the way. Now if we could get the Congress off their as#es.

He even got the UK to sign a trade deal.

It's good to have a politician who enjoys tacos for a change 🌮 as opposed to those who preferred wieners 🌭

I think it's obvious now that NATO/EU are using Ukraine to antagonize Russia into an action they can use to invoke Article 5 and force the US into a direct war with Russia. I don't know how thier leaders think that's going to turn out well… at this point the only winning move is not to play. We shouldnt be Europe's manipulated muscle for whatever frucked up power goals they are pursuibg at our expense. Time for Article 13.

You worry that China is the real threat to your world domination? Shouldn't have cut the foreign aid budget then

Nah, USAID was not only a CIA front, but a leftist/Democrat slush fund they used to steal staggering amounts of cash via a web of USAID funded friendly NGOs. Are do you think funding circumcision 8n africa and pride parades in Peru was advancing US national security??

SB, so you are against the current war in Ukraine because we should have gone to war in Georgia a few years ago ? Or Ukraine in 2014 ? I don't see your logic there. Yes, Ukraine has the option of ending the war by surrendering to Russia, they choose not to.

Not sure Russia annexed the Donbas in 2014. They did start a rebellion there, with Russian soldiers to "help".

There were and are practical problems with aiding Georgia, effectively air transport only, difficult terrain. Crimea was a fait accomplis very quickly, especially since there were Russian troops stationed in the Crimea even before the invasion, defending the large Russian naval base that they were renting from Ukraine. Lots of Russian nationals there before the invasion and recent historical ownership before Stalin transferred it to Ukraine.

All very different from this current invasion of land whose borders the Russians were pledged to protect (though that included Crimea), which has land borders with European countries and the possibility of rail or road transport.

Noggin case in point

"The Washington Post reports on this decline, stating that U.S. seizures at the southern border are down by almost 30 percent compared with the same period in 2024. The outlet, however, states that the drop "represents something of a mystery.""

"According to the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS), the U.S. law enforcement seizures of fentanyl, which the group explains is a "key indicator of broader total smuggling at and between the southern border's ports of entry," have dropped 50% since the November election. CIS states that this significant decline indicates a "greater decline in total fentanyl smuggling.""

A "mystery" 🤔

Just like the closing of the border in the first 2 weeks. "It's magic!!". "Nothing to see here, just move along!".

Subject: Washington Post's 'pathetic' reporting on fentanyl decline mocked by White House


link

Trump hasn't signed a single legally binding trade deal with another nation since he came back into the White House. (The preliminary trade agreement with the UK is only a "framework" and not the sort of comprehensive agreement that requires Congressional approval). Shifting tariffs up and down also doesn't constitute a trade deal.

Regarding taco's:
link

"USAID"

Coincidentally:

"Paperwork with the word "USAID" was found in the car of Mohamed Sabry Soliman, who's accused of allegedly throwing explosives at a group in Boulder, Colorado, peacefully protesting for the release of Hamas' hostages."

"According to an arrest affidavit, law enforcement officials found paperwork with the words "USAID" inside Soliman's 2015 silver Toyota Prius. Other paperwork with the words "Israel" and "Palestine" was also allegedly found inside the Toyota Prius, in addition to a red gas container and rags."

Well….. 🤔

Those in USAID, the Dept. of Agriculture, etc. that sent millions of $ to foreign countries for LGBTQ initiatives, etc. broke the law. They should be charged and let justice take its course.

SB, so you are against the current war in Ukraine because we should have gone to war in Georgia a few years ago ? Or Ukraine in 2014 ? I don't see your logic there. Yes, Ukraine has the option of ending the war by surrendering to Russia, they choose not to.

My point is that the US and Europe DID NOT CARE when Georgia was invaded. And of course there were support options we could have exercised and heavy sanctions. We did NOT.

My point is that the US and Europe DID NOT CARE when Crimea was annexed. And of course there were support options we could have exercised for Ukraine and heavy sanctions. We did NOT.

My point is that the US and Europe DID NOT CARE when Ukraine was invaded in 2014. And of course there were support options we could have exercised and heavy sanctions. We did NOT. A little minimal finger wagging and then the Europeans went back to happily buying cheap Russian oil.

They didn't want to upset peace, dontchya know…

And then in 2022 it was OVER BEFORE THE US AND EUROPE REACTED! Remember Biden's first reaction? He offered to fly Zelensky out to a comfy exile, not fight the Russians. To his credit, even though I think he's an untrustworthy weasel, he shot back, "I need bullets, no a ride."

Putin's Blitz was a failure, the Ukrainains used the Javelins (Trump gave them, yes?), arty and a gritty, brilliant mobile defense and the whole Russian Blitz bogged down. Before a SINGLE BULLET in aid had been sent, UKRAINE WON.

Ukraine's War Aim then was survival. I repeat – THEY WON. Putin sued for Peace, he wanted out. Peace was at hand, Ukraine had won by surviving and they DID NOT AIM TO RETAKE LOST LAND.

Then Biden and Europe stepped in and byatch-slapped Zelensky and told him they'd cut Ukraine off at the knees if he signed a peace deal with Russia. No $$$, no weapons, no support and they'd face Russia alone next time. So Zelensky caved -- the peace was dead. His new war aim provided to him by the string pullers was total recovery of all Ukrainian land… a practical impossibility that Ukraine had reconciled itself to before.

So why? I really want you to ponder this -- WHY did Biden and the Europeans intervene to kill a peace deal Ukraine and Russia both wanted? What was their goal?

Regarding taco's

Bad meme, takes too much explanation. At least the old "Cheetoman" label had some bite because of Trump's odd tan photos, though that also needs some minor explanation.

In contrast, Trump's meme's get right to the point, "Crooked Hillary," "Sleepy Joe," "Crazy Kamala."

"Putin sued for Peace, he wanted out…."

Where is that documented?…

Putin showing his willingness to accept overnight that his "Special Military Operation" was a complete failure and an unprecedented humiliation in Russian history? Putin? Asking for forgiveness for the defeat of his armed forces… Putin? Explaining to his people that he had made a mistake ABOUT SOMETHING and that his Army, Navy, and Air Force were a fiasco defeated in a couple of weeks by a recent former Soviet colony? Putin?…

Armand

Yes, do some of your own research on this. I have posted the links here on this and other threads before, liberal Israeli PM Naftali Bennet disclosed this, verified by the Turks, that Turkey hosted direct peace talks between Ukraine and Russia in March of 2022.

Bennett is playing the ‘primary' role in mediating Russia-Ukraine talks, report says
Financial Times says Israeli prime minister is the key international broker between Moscow and Kyiv, as the two sides inch toward a ceasefire deal

link

And of course Putin wasn't going to admit failure, he was going to declare the "Special operation" to "denazify elements of Ukraine" was a success, nothing more to see here, move along! OR have you forgotten the 50km long Russian traffic jam stalled and vulnerable, unable to reach Kyiv.

Russia's 56 km-long armoured convoy north of Kyiv, February 2022
Three days into Russia's invasion of Ukraine, a convoy of vehicles measuring 15.5km was spotted by a satellite. Forty-eight hours later, on 29 February 2022, it had grown to a colossal 56 km long.

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Muddy conditions meant vehicles were restricted to major paved roads, so no sweeping attacks. Russia units were out of supply because logistics units were jammed up in the rear and couldn't get forward with fuel, food and munitions.
Ukrainian hit and run attacks were taking a constant toll. ALL of Putin's top generals were proven incompetent liars and thieves. Scores of vehicles broke down because the maintenance parts and $$ had been stolen.

He wanted out before he couldn't spin it anymore.

An historic chance for peace -- KILLED by Biden and the Europeans.

Russia–Ukraine Peace Was Blocked By Western Powers, Former Israeli Prime Minister Claims

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The Grinding War in Ukraine Could Have Ended a Long Time Ago

According to Bennett, as early as the second Saturday of the war, or a little less than a week and a half into the war, both Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky and Russian president Vladimir Putin made major concessions: Putin, by giving up on the goals of the "demilitarization" of Ukraine and its "denazification" — meaning, as Bennett interpreted it, regime change — and Zelensky by giving up on pursuing NATO membership.

Calling both leaders "pragmatic," Bennett says that over the course of negotiations, he "was under the impression that both sides very much want[ed] a ceasefire" and gave the odds of any deal holding at 50-50. Over a "marathon of drafts," he claims, seventeen draft agreements were prepared. But "they blocked it, and I thought [they were] wrong," Bennett says, referring to the Western powers backing Ukraine.

"I have one claim," Bennett told the interviewer. "I claim there was a good chance of reaching a ceasefire." When the interviewer asks if he means "had they not curbed it," he replies with a nod.

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Why? Presume for a moment that I'm right, indulge in this game of speculation, consider it to be alternative history if you will.

For what reason would Biden and the Europeans kill a peace deal to prolong a war that Ukraine ultimately cannot win by force of arms?

Welcome to the Long War: Why a Ukraine Deal Was Never Realistic

"This war will be decided on the battlefield.

Four months of chaotic shuttle diplomacy aimed at reaching a cease-fire in Ukraine, multiple phone calls between US President Donald Trump and Kremlin leader Vladimir Putin, repeated US attempts to pressure, browbeat, and bully Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy into concessions, have all yielded exactly nothing.

Which is not in the least bit surprising. Because there is no deal to be had with Russia on Ukraine. There never has been, and there never will be…"

link

Armand

No fair changing the subject, Armand! You can at least do me the courtesy of a reply. You asked for sources, I provided them and asked you a question.

????

SB,

I will try to answer your question. If this is true, that the US and Western Europe killed any peace deal back in 2022, I would say it was an effort to destroy the Russian military and hand a loss to Russia. To stop the aggressive policies of Putin. I would say we did the same thing during the Afghan-Soviet War. It is what China and Russia did to the US in Vietnam. Now, one could say this approach worked in Afghanistan and Vietnam. Will it work here remains to be seen. It is part of world politics. Many Afghanis and Vietnamese died because of it. Many Ukrainians are dying now. Still, you can't deny that the Ukrainians are fighting for their freedom, hate the Russians and, so far, have been willing to fight for this. It is all rather cynical.

If this is true, that the US and Western Europe killed any peace deal back in 2022, I would say it was an effort to destroy the Russian military and hand a loss to Russia.

That's how I view it. And that's what former PM Boris Johnson admitted as well:

Boris Johnson on Ukraine: ‘Let's Face It, We're Waging a Proxy War … but We're Not Giving Our Proxies the Ability To Do the Job'

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So then, NATO and the EU are NOT supporting Ukraine for "Democracy" or even to save Ukraine from being conquered (which as we have established, Ukraine stopped by itself in 2022).

No, the EU/NATO/Biden Admin pressured Zelensky into letting Ukraine be their Meat Puppet in a Proxy War to attack Russia and try to hurt them militarily and economically.

This is cynical, callous, brutal and even evil. They do not care about the cost in lives, the destruction of swathes of Ukraine, the cost in blood, pain and $$$. Well, these Globalists and Defense Contractors like the $$$ part, don't they? Soooo much money to be made, who cares who dies, eh?

Many Ukrainians are dying now. Still, you can't deny that the Ukrainians are fighting for their freedom, hate the Russians and, so far, have been willing to fight for this. It is all rather cynical.

Totally cynical since we have established Ukraine WON in 2022 and the WON their Freedom, only to be forced to fight for it again and again, day after day for three bloody long years to win it again and again.

And as the was of attrition drags on, despite high profile "wins" like the drone strikes on Russian bombers, Ukraine loses more men and more territory. A kilometer advance by Russia here, another kilometer there. The Ukrainian spoiling attack is long done, and served zero purpose. I thought they were smart and were going to use that bit of Russian land as a bargaining chip at the peace talks table. But nope, they actually tried to hold onto it -- all gone now.

So what is the POINT of this war?

The person who should be asked that is the aggressor… not the victim…

Armand

Many more things are being revealed about the last POTUS, VP, Admin and many Congress. It is clear Putin, Xi, etc. saw the last denizens of the WH would be easy to take advantage of. And did … Remember the Chinese Balloon … it is being investigated now.

The A'stan debacle emboldened Putin, Xi, Iran, Hamas, etc.

Then Putin invaded Ukraine. That is how it started, now how can it be ended ? I can pretty guarantee the last POTUS and Admin couldn't it. As we see they couldn't fix much … but broke a lot.

The person who should be asked that is the aggressor… not the victim…

Stop squirming away from the core question, it's disappointing and intellectually dishonest. Yes, Ukraine is the victim -- BUT we have established here that:

1. Ukraine stood its ground and stopped Putin's invasion before a single bullet in foreign aid arrived.

2. Putin and Zelensky were in peace talks in March 2022 to end the war, brokered by Turkey and Israel.

3. The US under Biden and NATO/EU interfered in the peace process, killed the deal and forced Ukraine to continue fighting

Why?

@ noggin2nog

another thought on

Regarding taco's

as a bad meme… everybody LIKES TACOS! Yes, you're relating a yummy food that everybody likes, which is a positive thing, so all that happens when Swalwell and others do their silly meme attempt videos eating a taco is make me want to have a taco!

Trump…taco…yummmmm…

While I would agree with points 1and 2, point 3 is far from established. Those who disagree have just stopped arguing with you, there is no point.
I believe that the 2022 deal would have been similar to the current offer, i.e., surrender and we will stop killing you.
Putin can stop the meat grinder at any time by not attacking.

While I would agree with points 1and 2, point 3 is far from established. Those who disagree have just stopped arguing with you, there is no point.

No point, because the alternative is world rocking if you accept it, yes? That the entire war has not been fought to Save Ukraine or Save Democracy, but to use Ukrainians as expendable meat puppets to try and degrade Russian power.

Putin can stop the meat grinder at any time by not attacking.

And why should he, now? He seemed open to a deal when Trump entered office, but after the Democrats killed the Zelensky deal in the Oval Office (wonder what they have on that guy), and in coordination with EU/NATO attack Trump at every peace overture while constantly escalating -- what can he conclude? That the US may want peace, but the EU/NATO does NOT want peace and now has even crossed the line we never crossed in the Cold War and attacked Russia's nuclear Triad,

He's just going to keep grinding Ukraine into paste -- and it's not Trump's fault. It's not Rubio's fault. ALL blame falls squarely on the Democrats and the Globalists running NATO and the EU.

Heck, and at this point NATO has not been acting as a Defensive Alliance and is fighting a thinly veiled proxy war against Russia and constantly escalating to draw the US into direct conflict.

Did YOU vote for WW3? Did you agree to green lighting your leaders provoking a direct kinetic conflict with Russia? Or is your hatred of OrangeManBad so great, you do anything, including ending the world just to get rid of him and stop his policies of reform and government accountability?

And it's time to leave NATO, it is not serving the security interests of the United States. It is not trustworthy, it is using defensive assets without US approval for warfightng the US has not agreed to, and NATO and EU leaders have worked behind the scenes with Democrats to block peace attempts.

SB, what value do you put on the US guarantees to the Ukraine to protect their borders when they gave up their nuclear weapons ? Of course the US and European states are assisting them. They promised to beforehand. NATO is not directly involved.
See above about attacking the nuclear triad. If the Russians use bombers in a non-nuclear attack they are legitimate targets.
PS. The Democrats are no longer in power. They have had NO influence on anything outside the US since Trump took office.

"PS. The Democrats are no longer in power. They have had NO influence on anything outside the US since Trump took office."

Not really true, democratic appointed federal judges have impacted and tried to impact almost 100 Trump directives so far in two terms.

SB, what value do you put on the US guarantees to the Ukraine to protect their borders when they gave up their nuclear weapons ? Of course the US and European states are assisting them. They promised to beforehand. NATO is not directly involved.

I thought that was a foolish deal, and that with successive changes in Administrations over time who no longer felt the sting of the Cold War, that US/Western commitment would slip. Ukraine should have kept its nukes. Oh well.

And NATO IS directly involved with planning and intel and targeting information.

See above about attacking the nuclear triad. If the Russians use bombers in a non-nuclear attack they are legitimate targets.

Sure, if you don't care about deescalating from Nuclear War via Arms Control Treaties, sure, do that. I feel differently, that the marginal utility of blowing up some place is overshadowed by the impact on strategic Arms Control. DEAD. No more Arms Control. The bombers were in the open in part under the revised START treaty, that despite saying they were pausing it, both the US and Russia were keeping to the terms and in that Treaty the disposition of bombers was subject to "technical verification," aka satellites. So NATO abused this when it helped Ukraine target these airfields. Why would any country ever again risk that? Good job!

PS. The Democrats are no longer in power. They have had NO influence on anything outside the US since Trump took office.

The Democrats still have tremendous influence and networks of contacts and agents, in alliance with the Establishment Press who carriers their messages. MOST of the EU and higher ranking NATO leaders are globalists allied with the Globalist Democrats in the US. They have their own agenda and YOUR needs aren't on that list.

The Democrats and their Establishment allies don't want peace with Russia. I don't know why. That's why they interfere in peace attempts and keep cranking up the heat = like this deep strike, or PM Starmer's bizarre chest thumping the other day about Britain "standing ready" and announcing more nukes and subs for Britain.

They kill peace deals, escalate and inflame the war at every turn. We know they certainly don't actually care for Ukraine or to "Save Democracy" with this war obsession. So why?

35thOVI: "Sho, in over 3 years, the vast Russian military machine has failed to crush the Ukraine."
Correct.

"You keep saying if Russia is not stopped in the Ukraine, they will then crush and enslave Europe."
Correct. They can try to do it in parallel as well.

"Is the Ukraine the greatest power in Europe?"
With the knowledge about modern war. Correct. But without superiority in air.

"All other countries are mere shadows of Ukrainian military prowess?"
Correct. They may surpass Russia in air power, but if Trump and SBminisguy get their way with Article 13, Trump can simply turn off American-made weapons in Europe to give his friend Putin the "Great and Beautiful" Victory.

"If the Ukraine is crushed, Europe is no better than Europe when the Germans rolled over it in 39-41?"
Germans and their Allies Russians.
Mostly yes. Correct. Only Finns and Poles have some capabilities to resist in land. Just like then.

"If that is true, it is both very sad and the fault of those who allowed it to be unprepared."
You mean, the fault of Americans?

"But if the Ukraine is NOT the dominant power in Europe, then I cannot see the Russians rolling over anyone.. especially a combined and prepared Europe."
Europe is lead and combined by Americans and are not prepared. We only started to prepare as we understand that America will fall under Trump's wise leadership and we will be left alone. But the Russians, with Trump's support, are preparing to attack before we are ready.

"I understand the Baltic states fears, as Russia has dominated them since Peter. But you are part of NATO and invading you would trigger NATO. I assume you believe at least Europe would start a war due to it."
Our army is built according to NATO standards, like the rest of the European armies, and is probably ready for the last war. If a defensive line is not built here on the model of Ukraine (which, by the way, is already being done modestly), if air defense is not added, and if ground forces are not doubled with NATO or, even better, experienced Ukrainian units, then the Russians with experience in modern warfare, along with the firepower they have accumulated in the meantime, can freely walk through here on their donkeys. NATO standards turn NATO forces into sitting ducks. Especially if Trump turns off the European Air Force.
Some of our generals are already advising us to forget everything we have learned and trained so far and start from scratch in order to be able to resist the Muscovites.
Because if we do not turn the Baltics into an impregnable fortress and the Muscovites walk through here, then there will be no use in any NATO triggers and declarations of war, we will already be dead by then and no one is even going to liberate us.

"I myself do not see the real benefits of Russia doing that, outweighing the disaster that it would bring on and I cannot see the Russians being able to sustain the losses(equipment and economy. Not manpower, they have lots and are willing to waste it), incurred in a larger prolonged war, even with the help of China."
You don't see because you look at your viewpoint. Russia will collapse economically in any case, unless of course Trump comes to its rescue. In the case of war, however, all the troubles can be blamed on the war and the evil Western imperialists, and Putin's power is secured. Moreover, all resources are directed to the war economy, it is easier for Muscovites to wage war than to live in peace. An additional advantage is that they can kill off the Baltic peoples without hindrance and replace them with Muscovites.

Trump's assertion that it would be easy and quick to end the war was BS. Putin knows him, knows the American right, prolonged the war until the election, got his wish. There is no deal with him that he will honor except in his own interests. We all knew that. The Helsinki meeting is an historic mystery that left Trump looking weak and compliant with Putin.

Again, the ongoing mass execution of Ukrainian civilians during the "peace talks" in 2022 was the main factor in their failure, IMO. Deal with Putin? Somehow he had Trump over a barrel at Helsinki, and I doubt he worries much about him now. "Peace talks" involving Putin mean peace on Putin's terms.

The Democrats could all be deported to the moon and everything would still be their fault. They are weak, out of power, leaderless. Even Trump judges find against him when he goes too far. A new way of thinking might be to consider whether Trump is actually responsible for some of our latest problems, especially over checks and balances and the wobbly economy. It's not always someone else's fault. All judges who find against Trump are corrupt or political? It's never that they are upholding the law?

And I don't think Putin is anything but thankful for our continuing divisions. Trump is all over the map-are we America first or still a world leader? I have had enough tacos to put me off them for quite a while.

"If that is true, it is both very sad and the fault of those who allowed it to be unprepared."
You mean, the fault of Americans?

Europeans hold that responsibility. After 80 years of dependence on the U.S. to pull the weight of worldwide defense, it was way past time to come out of the basement and take on responsibility for one's self. While Understandable after WW2, it is NOT today. Only now, (with the wolf at the door according to the Europeans on TMP), do we now see some countries increasing defense budgets to 2% and some higher. Germany now possibly to 5%. If the Russians can gear up quickly to a military economy, why not European countries? My thought; If you TRULY believe Russia is the new Nazi Germany, you would want to sacrifice your daily comforts in exchange for the security of your own countries.

I don't believe Russia is the juggernaut you all believe them to be. They proved that in the Ukraine. I don't think they are capable of a blitzkrieg across Europe. Like every other war, where they were not supported logistically by other countries, the further they would advance and their logistics lines became longer, the quicker their logistics would collapse. It has always been their weakness. We've seen it already in the Ukraine.

The predictions in the first days of Trump's administration by the TDSers on TMP and the U.S., have proven incorrect.

"Musk is running the Country!" Whoops!! What happened all you prophets?
"The U.S. is going to invade Greenland!" How's that going?
"He is going to take over Canada" Nope seem to be their own country still. But Alberta is talking about separation. But that is the fault of the liberal politicians of Canada. 😉
"The U.S. is going to take over the Panama Canal!" A few deals with Panama and crickets 🦗
"If Trump is elected, he is going to start arresting all those who opposed him in the media and throw them into Gulags!!😱" Well the baying 🦭 of "The View" are still there and spouting the same garbage. As is the MSM. So much for that.

I can go on, but you all just jump to the next MSM crises of the day or taco meme. 🤣

I was quite quiet about Trump and gave him a chance to show himself. Half a year has passed now and it should be crystal clear to everyone that Trump fully supports the Russian aggression in Ukraine and works for Ukraine's surrender.

"Europeans hold that responsibility."

The Europeans followed America's lead. Even into all sorts of wars that were initially pointless.
When America said that we would now be great friends and partners with the Russians forever, there was no point in contributing to the war. There was no need to listen to the voices and warnings of the small Baltic states.

When the British began to cut their fleet and military programs, I immediately said that now, based on historical experience, we can already predict when the Russians will start a war. Especially since Putin already gave the order to arrange things in the economy and finance in such a way that in about ten years Russia would be ready for a ten-year war.

If I lived in Europe, I would never, NOT be prepared for war. In Europe, there are wars and rumors of war since ….. forever.

For 80 years it just became too easy to depend on someone else.

If you believe what you say you believe, you have seen the Russian threat coming since they went into Georgia and elsewhere. If you ignored it and stayed unprepared, that is not the US's fault.

So far in Trumps term, nothing has truly changed in the Ukraine. Promised aid is still going. The war marches on daily. Men die on both sides. No end in sight. Yes Trump was delusional to believe he could broker a peace quickly.

About the only change, we have a deal for resources. But with a war, those will be dam# hard to get!

If Putin continues with the attitude of what's mine is mine and what's yours negotiable, then war will continue. There will have to be compromises on both sides. Right now, I don't see anyone willing to compromise.

That being said, like we have voiced earlier, this becomes a war of attrition, and in a war of attrition, which side is likely to leave the winner?

After war there was 40 years with Soviet Union and war was clear and imminent threat. But then the happiest event in XX century happened and the Empire of Evil fell.

The newly independent Russia was in economic difficulties and could not stand on its own without the help of America, Europe, Ukraine and Kazakhstan. In this state, Russia was unable to attack and played a friend to the West. And even if it was unable to attack, it still attacked – Ichkeria and was beaten. Which led to mutual recognition and a peace treaty.

And this peace treaty was violated by Putin in the same way that the peace treaty imposed on Ukraine by Trump and SBminisguy will soon be violated.

"If you believe what you say you believe"
What I believe don't matter, the Big Europe followed America and America did not want Europe to become more powerful than it. In addition, all big businesses tended to enter the large Russian market. It was mistakenly believed that these businesses were more important to the Russians than grandiose revanchist plans to divide the world.

"you have seen the Russian threat coming since they went into Georgia and elsewhere"
There was lot of SBminisguy's who insinuated that Georgia survived and already won with it, and it is necessary to make peace. The result is visible today and this will also happen in Ukraine if it surrenders.

"So far in Trumps term, nothing has truly changed in the Ukraine. Promised aid is still going."
Yes, this is Biden's legacy and it will end soon.

"If Putin continues with the attitude of what's mine is mine and what's yours negotiable, then war will continue. There will have to be compromises on both sides. Right now, I don't see anyone willing to compromise."
Very true, Putin continues with this attitude. And Trump continues to support him.
The compromise is actually very simple. The trouble is that the Ukrainians are not making any demands. They should be demanding the same thing as the Russians, but in a mirror image. The demilitarization, denazification, deputization of Russia, and six Russian regions. And so on and so forth. Then a compromise can be made within the 1991 borders recognized by Europe, which are also confirmed by several Russian-Ukrainian border and friendship treaties.

"and in a war of attrition, which side is likely to leave the winner?"
Winner will be the one with more economical resources – the Ukraine with help from whole West. Russia should mobilize all their manpower, then Ukraine may grind these more effectively and the war will end faster. Unfortunately, Putin needs this manpower against Europe.

Okay no more taco comments from me… it's frustration over this and the wars raging hotter than ever, and I don't get the plan with these tariffs even now.

Trump has done some good things, some mixed results also. It has only been five months. As always I think he would do better not to talk so much.

Okay no more taco comments from me

I like tacos, especially street tacos with Birria. So talk about tacos all you like! I also make some pretty tasty Baja Shrimp tacos with a garlic-cilantro-lime sauce for the familia, and their favorite red cabbage, roasted corn mexican slaw on the side.

Here in the northern hills we don't see many tacos… SB you live in taco heaven! Venison pot pie anyone? Northern pike fish loaf (y bones removed)?

Venison pot pie anyone?

That sounds pretty good! I once had a buddy who hunted, and for the low price of listening to his hunting tales he'd give me some venison sausage and steaks.

Why not Venison tacos? I bet you could put the meat in a slow cooker, let it braise in your sauce of choice, like maybe barbacoa, and get some nice shredded venison taco meat.

All Totalitarians Are Not Created Equal

"…While the end of WWII was also the end of right-wing totalitarianism, communist totalitarianism remained alive and well. The Soviet Union and the People's Republic offered an alternative to political democracy and market economics, initiating the Cold War.

The collapse of the USSR in 1991 ended the Cold War. Many were optimistic, anticipating that Russia would follow the example of Germany. In the end, Russia chose to follow 1933 rather than 1945 Germany. After a decade of struggling, the realities of life under totalitarian communism faded into soft focus leaving memories of predictable stability and past national glory. The stage was set for a return to totalitarianism without a driving political philosophy.

In August 1999, Boris Yeltsin, the President of Russia, appointed Vladimir Putin as Prime Minister. His resignation that December left Putin in charge. He chose to follow a new path, using a totalitarian structure to create a kleptocracy administered by a small circle of oligarchs…"

link

But they all are still rubbish…

Armand

While the end of WWII was also the end of right-wing totalitarianism,

Meh, you mean "Left Wing Totalitarianism"

The collapse of the USSR in 1991 ended the Cold War. Many were optimistic, anticipating that Russia would follow the example of Germany. In the end, Russia chose to follow 1933 rather than 1945 Germany.

Incorrect. At the end of the Cold War Russia was looking for help and guidance, and many in the Bush '41 Administration favored launching a new Marshall Plan to bring Russia firmly into the West.

Unfortunately Clinton won the 1992 election and he had ZERO interest in this topic, he was heavily focused on domestic US issues. Clinton put Al Gore in charge of Russia policy and HE TOTALLY BLEW IT! Gore had ZERO significant foreign policy experience and he sided instinctively with the Old Guard State Department apparatchiks who were still steeped in Cold War diploculture. They also has ZERO interest in a Marshall Plan or helping Russia transition, they were enamored of the Big Peace Talk model and forcing Russia to demilitarize.

Their actions helped fuel the instability of the 1990s that led the rise of Putin. Not because they "chose" that path, but because absent Western partners willing to help, it was the default path of least resistance.

An historic once in a lifetime opportunity squandered.

O sancta simplicitas!
Did anyone think that Russia could be civilized without the Nuremberg Trials and Purgatory?

They don't even understand that their "terrible nineties" were a direct consequence of their own Soviet regime. When some of the peoples they enslaved were freed and there was no one left to feed and shelter them. We need to free the remaining peoples languishing in slavery in Russia before the Russians completely destroy them.

SBm +1 … again …

Sho Boki + 1

Russians are good… USA Democrats are demons… they are guilty that Russia politics hasn't been able to express their angelic ways and plans to his neighbors… Putin and Trump are two guardian angels who only seek peace while being stalked and assassinated by the demons of NATO and the American Democrats…

By the way… has anyone read anything about Jaime Bayly's investigations into the compromising photos the Kremlin has of the current president in Washington during one of his visits to the Ritz in Moscow?

YouTube link

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Armand

Today's Right would not have looked on a new Marshall plan very favorably, I think, and are focused on rearranging government and domestic culture issues. Even the traditional view of the far Right and authoritarian rule has changed. Left wing Nazis and Commies, everything lumped into one convenient us vs them belief system on the Right, a la McCarthyism. And the Dems do this too, but are not as strident sounding in most cases, especially with their party leaderless and lost.

No one in the past referred to the Nazis as leftist extremists that I was aware of and communism was and is a failed system that served as cover for totalitarian rule which has used it for window dressing. A bully is a bully no matter the suit of ideas he wears…just a means to an end. Power and wealth are the principles.

Russians are good… USA Democrats are demons… they are guilty that Russia politics hasn't been able to express their angelic ways and plans to his neighbors

A little chauvinism, eh? Btw, everything I stated about the 1990s is totally true. The West ended up doing to Russia the same damn thing we did to Germany after WW1, with the SAME RESULT!

That's why the WISE people in government after the collapse of the USSR immediately saw this danger and promoted a policy of engagement rather than punitive measures. They promoted a Marshall Plan -- I know, I was there as a minor Cold War functionary, I even helped arrange a meeting between senior Russian and US military officials and diplomats. An amazing experience.

But it all ended when Clinton got elected. What a tragedy.

No one in the past referred to the Nazis as leftist extremists that I was aware of and communism was and is a failed system that served as cover for totalitarian rule which has used it for window dressing. A bully is a bully no matter the suit of ideas he wears…just a means to an end. Power and wealth are the principles.

We've had this little dance before, the concept of Fascism being "right wing" despite it's clear Socialist and Communist heritage is a nice bit of CYA from Western Leftists who control Academia.

Not hard to actually find out Mussolini's background, or any of the Fascist thinkers or leaders – Mussolini was a Marxist before he helped found the Italian Fascist movement, and even Hitler flirted with Communism when he supported the Bavarian Soviet State as a member of that movement's Red Army.

It's also not hard to find what Mussolini and other Fascists meant by "Socialism" -- they defined that in terms of the "Socialist International" movement, aka Communism. Not hard to search for Giovanni Gentile and see his various writings, including the Philosophy of Marx (which was praised by Lenin) before he wrote the Philosophy of Fascism.

I went and spent $1.99 USD USD on Gentile's book so you don't have to -- in it he lays out his argument. He cites the works of George Sorel, French Socialist who criticized Marxism for failing to deliver and was obsessed with materialism to the point of fallacy (page 116). As Marxism's failings became evident Gentile describes how young Italian socialists flocked to thinkers like Sorel to find direction. Gentile also speaks to the spiritualism of man which he feels is expressed via nationalism, and while the Right is too obsessed with the Individual, the Left is too obsessed with the State and materialism to the point of being immoral -- and he felt there should be balance, so long as the Individual didn't impede the State's ability to deliver the promises of Socialism on the behalf of society.

Gentile describes how Mussolini left the Socialist Party in 1915 to strike out on this new form of Socialism, and that he had gone through his own thought journey from Marxism idealism to disillusionment.

Gentile states that under Fascism:
1. Individual "Rights" come from the State, and are the source of all social rights and rejects western liberalism.

2. The State is also the center of liberating spiritualism, equated with extreme nationalism, for only through service to the State can man be truly free and connected to the society.

3. The State is the embodiment of the People, and the People are expressed via the State

4. He describes on page 231 how the State controls the economy via "Corporations of Syndicates," or "Corporatism" as Mussolini called it. Rather than seize corporations and run them from the State, Fascism controlled industry by co-opting and forcing industrial leaders to bend to the will of the Socialist State and become part of the State-managed Corporate Syndicate. The working class was represented by State-controlled Unions. Gentile describes how the State will "reduce" companies "to State discipline and make them an expression of the State's organism."

Gentile goes on to describe how "the individual exists as a specialized productive force…who is brought to unite with other individuals…and comes to belong to the one great economic unit which is none other than the nation."

Gentile goes on to explain how western liberalism is essentially immoral and destructive, and how Fascism resolves "the paradox of liberty and authority."

This is SOCIALISM. The express control of the Means of Production BY THE STATE. The express control of the Individual to serve the State.

This is all in one single book that anyone can read and discuss. But did you know this? Did you know that all of the political philosophers who founded Fascism were Socialists and Marxists? Did you know that Fascism explicitly calls for the STATE control of the means of production and rejects individualistic capitalism?

So ask yourself why a system created by Socialists that rejects western liberalism and individualism, and rejects capitalism in favor of explicit State control of the Economy and Society is "Right Wing."

"The West ended up doing to Russia the same damn thing we did to Germany after WW1, with the SAME RESULT!"

Here you are right. They should have repeated not the end of WWI but the end of WWII, with the Nuremberg Tribunal and the Purgatory. But they postponed it, and so it must be done now.

Mussolini was not a Marxist he was a Socialist. Then he became a Fascist. If Fascism and Nazism are left wing then why did the Socialist kick Mussolini out of their party? Why did Hitler round up all the socialists and Communists? Why did the nazis attack Russia and call it the great crusade to end Communism? Why did the Spanish Civil War see the fascists on the side of the right-wing Nationalists? This idea that Nazism or fascism is left is just ridiculous. Both argued for ardent nationalism which is totally opposed to socialism and communisms view of class warfare and unity of the workers. Nazism and Fascism are pro-capitalism as an economic system.

The Right has tried to say Nazism and Communism are left because they are convinced that all evil comes from the left. Nazism and fascism are evil thus they have to be from the left. And don't give me that Nazi has socialist right in its name. That is meaningless by the time Hitler comes to power and all Communist countries say they are democracies and republics. So what.

I teach at a very conservative Christian College. Both of the Political Scientists laugh when you ask them if Nazism and Fascism were leftist political parties. They aren't evil liberal professors, and they have spent years and years studying politics. So enough of this.

Further, the Freikorp units after WW1 were made up of far right conservative soldiers who hated socialism and communism. They brutally crushed the various revolts of the socialists and communists against the German government. After that many of them joined the Nazi Party as members and SA. Are we really to believe that after crushing the leftist movements they then went and joined a leftist Nazi Party? Right.

Grattan +1.

My opinion… Facism is not much of an ideology, IMO. It is based on sheer physical force, propaganda and fear, centralizing one man rule, controlling the economy and speech, fake representative government. Pure communism and socialism may be left wing, but they don't work well as systems. But they sound like something to hang a hat on and they make good cover for strong men on the extreme right. On the extreme left are anarchist groups like Antifa are too decentralized to run anything. Both sides have extremist elements, most people live in the middle.