"Russia Has Already Lost The Ukraine War" Topic

"China has been a significant supplier of military hardware to Argentina, including fighter aircraft, armored personnel carriers, and naval vessels. Argentina also received a donation of armored vehicles and security cameras from China.
Russia…

FALSE!… there are not a single Aircraft, Carrier or Vessels from China in our Army… Donation was four (4) vehicles for the G20 Summit in 2017!!…

"Argentina has signed agreements with Russia for military training, and Argentina's military personnel have received training in Russian military academies….

FALSE!

A VERY SHAMEFUL agreement signed by the most useless and corrupt President of Argentina since its creation (Alberto Fernandez) when, a few days before the invasion of Ukraine, he went to offer Putin our country as a spearhead in South America… (Cuba and Venezuela had already been doing that for a while)…

IT WAS NEVER CARRIED OUT… fortunately, our current President rejected it, as well as participation in the BRICS…

ARGENTINA is a Western Democracy… our best friends have always been and always will be the USA, FRANCE, SPAIN… now, fortunately, Israel is joining the fold…

Armand

You can take that up with Google AI.

But doing some additional digging, a lot of the buying was under Alberto Fernandez. Much cancelled later including the purchase of Chinese fighters and instead buying US fighters.

But where you got foreign aid was not my point. The point was the U.S. is the #1 spender on foreign aid worldwide. But we are constantly being criticized for not giving enough. The Ukraine has been the #1 recipient since that war started.

You and others are telling us what we should do. How many other countries does Argentina have sucking on their tax money, like piglets on a teat?

The #2 country sending out foreign aid by the way… Germany.

While we can't tell you what to do… we have every right to criticize what you do or don't do… common sense, history, the international position of the USA, and its democratic foundations make those of us who are smaller or defenseless ask for your help… it's up to you to provide it or not… but that doesn't mean we can't show our disagreement…

All of this in general… but in particular… reliving the Nazi invasion and seeing those who did so much to destroy it and who are in a position to support the invaded uphold their own lies or those told by the Nazis themselves produces profound unease and indignation.

Currently, I don't believe there is any other country with greater support and better relations with the US than Argentina… and I sincerely hope that continues… but like any good friend, it's our duty to tell him if you are making a mistake…

Nothing more and nothing less than that…

Armand

The Art of the (Fake) Deal: Trump, Putin, and the Illusion of Peace

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Seleccionar idioma​▼
The Art of the (Fake) Deal: Trump, Putin, and the Illusion of Peace
.By Andrew Latham
The Art of the (Fake) Deal: Trump, Putin, and the Illusion of PeaceAP
Donald Trump is back in the geopolitical spotlight, and true to form, he's making waves. Monday's surprise phone call between Trump and Vladimir Putin has triggered a frenzy of diplomatic posturing that looks, at first glance, like the first real movement toward peace in Ukraine in over three years. The headlines are breathless: "Talks to End the War Begin," "Trump Breaks the Ice," "Putin Ready to Deal." And indeed, the choreography is impressive. Moscow and Kyiv have, on paper, agreed to explore the terms of a ceasefire. Trump declared negotiations would begin "immediately," while Putin spoke of drafting a "memorandum" that could lay the groundwork for a future settlement.

But scratch beneath the surface, and the whole affair reeks of theatricality. There's no ceasefire. No deal. No real concession. Only posturing—strategic ambiguity dressed up as peacemaking. And for all Trump's bombast, the ground reality hasn't changed: Russian troops still occupy swathes of Ukrainian territory, missiles still fall on Ukrainian cities, and neither side appears ready to concede what would be necessary for real peace. This is not diplomacy; it's choreography. And we've seen this dance before.

…

Europe, too, smells a rat. Germany's Friedrich Merz—now the de facto leader of European foreign policy—responded not with celebration, but with sanctions. The message is clear: Europe sees this move not as a breakthrough but as a potential feint. One that could fracture the West, erode support for Ukraine, and create a new frozen conflict under Russian terms. For all the headlines, nothing about this moment should surprise us. This is what happens when grand strategy gives way to performance. Trump's phone call fits squarely within a pattern we've seen before—from Singapore to Helsinki, from Doha to Mar-a-Lago. His approach is not grounded in realism or restraint. It is rooted in impulse, image, and the desire to dominate the news cycle…"

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Armand

Trump wants the Russians to present a memorandum for peace.
The Russians are fully aware of this and understand it correctly.
The "memorandum" must be as unacceptable and demanding of Western surrender as the "Istanbul Agreements". This is done only to give Trump a reason to withdraw from the peace process and stop helping Ukraine.
Of course, Trump first demands that Ukraine accept this "memorandum" and still does nothing to force Russia to make peace.

Never seen people not actually fighting, fight so hard to stop the fighting killing others…

It's epically sad that killing attempts at making peace and continuing the killing fields of Ukraine has become a political litmus test for anti-Trumpers and the Left.

This thread just keeps going in circles. Before Trump, the U.S. needs to do more! The U.S. isn't doing enough! Trump's in, we still get the same complaints as before. But add to that, Trump is a fool! Trump isn't doing enough for peace! Trump is aiding Putin! Etc….Etc.

No one cared that for 3 years NO ONE even attempted a ceasefire or a peace deal.

But it still comes down to:

Can the Ukraine win? Please don't give me the tired, "If we throw more weapons and money at them". They need personal. No matter what Russia loses, the Ukrainians lose too. You cannot argue there are more Russians and NK, than Ukrainians. Attrition favors the Russians.

Short of Russia imploding at home (unlikely). Putin suddenly dying (which that is no Guarantee). A new Russian revolution (sure). Intervention by other countries (now where would that go?🤔). The absolute best that is going to happen, is a stalemate with the Ukraine holding on to independence and maybe some territory back.

I don't really think either side wants peace right now.

But if you really think that throwing more money and equipment at it will allow the Ukraine to win, there are more than enough countries that can up their anti and do it. Some sacrifices will be necessary at home.., but if you believe in it strongly enough, I assume it's worth it. Right?

The reality some are saying and I agree. Putin is a KGB gangster. There is little chance he can do anything effectively to "win" in Ukraine. Again high losses for few gains.

"I don't really think either side wants peace right now."

Not true! Ukraine want peace but Ukraine isn't aggressor so Ukraine cannot stop their non-existent aggression and end the war. They only can stop Russian aggression if Trump stops supporting Russian aggression.

"They only can stop Russian aggression if Trump stops supporting Russian aggression."

🤔 so for 3 years prior to the last 5 months, Trump was supporting Putin's aggression? Trump told Putin to invade the Ukraine a second time 3 years ago?
By your logic, the EU and U.S. were supporting Russian aggression before Trump was ever in office. I mean, there was a war, Russia invaded and no one stepped in with a peace plan. So they by default were supporting Russian aggression.

Perhaps the Ukraine wants peace, but what is the criteria for that peace? Will Russia accept their conditions? Russia has its own criteria too. Is the Ukraine willing to concede to those? I am betting one condition is a Russian puppet government in the Ukraine.

So, I doubt anyone is willing to accept the others terms, nor compromise. Result: More war. 😔

Your best hope is the Russian economy collapses from staying on a war footing. I doubt that is much of a hope though.

3 years Ukraine stand against Russian aggression and 5 months Trump do everything he can to support Russian aggression and divide the West. He don't stopped Biden's help but when Biden's help ended Trump unlikely will continue to help Ukraine.

Russian conditions for peace by "Istambul agreements" and current "memorandum" are the complete surrender of Ukraine. Ukraine will be ruled by a Russian Gauleiter, and any pro-Western sentiment will lead to death, as stated in the Russian peace terms, according to which the killing of Ukrainians will continue on an even larger scale, and Ukrainians will not be allowed to defend themselves. It will be the same as the mass murder of the Polish elite by the KGB during World War II. And then it will be time to kill all other Europeans.

Russia can only be beaten by economic power of the West. So Trump can effectively use his Tariffs!!! Tariffs!!! and real sanctions against terrorist Russia and its allies and supporters. He then even have no need for pricey but useless Golden Dome anymore..

Sho:

For those 3 years, individuals on TMP said that the U.S. was not doing enough. Now you are saying we all stood together. It does get confusing.

But all that aside and playing the devils advocate:

Again, could not all those who are afraid that the "Evil 😈 Trump", "Satan's stepchild 🔥", will stop the aid to the Ukraine, (even if true), not unite together, make sacrifices at home and to their economies, go into debt and make up the difference in aid?

And if what you write below is true and Russia is the worlds only danger, why not give up all your own military equipment so that the Ukraine can be triumphant, bring Putin to his knees and free the world from his tyranny. Once the Russian monster is destroyed, you can always rebuild your arsenals. It of course will be at today's prices, but that seems such a small price, to insure the safety of mankind.

As Spock might say: "It's only logical".

"He then even have no need for pricey but useless Golden Dome anymore"

Me? I want the dome! I don't trust anyone.

"the U.S. was not doing enough."

This is also true. Too little, too late. Just to keep Ukraine alive.
If strategy was to boil the frog economically, then now the first fruits will appear at last and it is time to increase the press and add the real sanctions. Unfortunately Trump chooses to support and save the aggressor and give to him victory instead of sure loss.

"And if what you write below is true and Russia is the worlds only danger, why not give up all your own military equipment so that the Ukraine can be triumphant"

Russia is not the worlds only danger. And we already gave to Ukraine our military equipment as Ukraine fight for our freedom also. Trump will sell us to Putin without blinking. Happily he allowed us to buy new Javelins to replace the ones we gave to Ukraine. Ukraine will not be triumphant as you say but survive with our ammo and don't need personnel as you say but just enough ammo and air defence to be like Israel.

"Once the Russian monster is destroyed, you can always rebuild your arsenals."

If monster is destroyed we don't need arsenals anymore, right? The biggest mistake of West was demilitarization after Soviet Union falls. They thinked that there are no monsters anymore and Russian monster puppie will stand with them against China monster. O sancta simplicitas. Russia is only not a threat if it is weak or fragmented. Like now Russia and Ukraine are divided. Then Russians must fight among themselves before attacking humans. St-Petersbourg Democratic Republic against Moscow Peoples Republic for example. And we may support them both or the side who cure from Nazi to nationalists.

"I'm not happy with what Putin is doing," Trump explained. "He's killing a lot of people, and I don't know what the hell happened to Putin."

"I've known him a long time, always gotten along with him, but he's sending rockets into cities and killing people, and I don't like it at all," he added.

"I've always said that [Putin] wants ALL of Ukraine, not just a piece of it, and maybe that's proving to be right, but if he does, it will lead to the downfall of Russia!" the social media post read. "Likewise, President Zelenskyy is doing his Country no favors by talking the way he does. Everything out of his mouth causes problems, I don't like it, and it better stop."

Subject: Trump criticizes Putin for killing people in massive Ukraine missile strike


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You misunderstand Trump. He does not criticize Putin, Trump's old friend, but only complains that Putin is doing the right things at the wrong time, at a time that is not suitable for Trump. He is criticizing Zelensky for speaking the truth and not capitulating to Putin.

🙄

If he is not Happy… what is he going to do?… send a letter with a complain?…

Armand

"If he is not Happy… what is he going to do?… send a letter with a complain?…"

🤔
Probably the same thing everyone else did for the prior 3 years. Send some equipment and money to the Ukraine. Say they are going to sanction Russia and then still do business with them secretly or non-secretly. Then say bad things about Putin and Russia to the press.

That seems to be the way things have gone before.

That seems to be the way things have gone before.

Guess this war is too profitable to end…

This is why Putin and Trump work as team?
Everyone hoped and expected that Trump would finally give Ukraine so much aid that the war would end quickly. Instead, Trump, in collusion with Putin, threatened to withhold aid from Ukraine at all so that the war would end even faster and all the Ukrainians would be killed.
And now you're saying that Trump, in his endless greed, is going to start pouring out aid like Biden did before?

Even Tulsi Gabbard understand that Russians in their heads fight in Ukraine not against Ukrainians but against USA. There were no ultimatums to Ukraine before full-scale war but was ultimatum to USA. And as Trump continues repeat – if he was then President he definitely fulfilled all Russian terms and capitulated immediately so war was never started.

dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/ATA-2025-Unclassified-Report.pdf

Watching news often … it seems some have come up with some more interesting, educated opinions.

Putin can claim victory as he wanted to keep Ukraine out of NATO. However, his invasion pushed Sweden and Finland into NATO.

Putin's plan/hope all along was to replace Zilinsky with a puppet. Like Stalin, etc. did after WWII.

He will do all he can to keep his war going. He care little for his high losses in this 3 year + war. E.g. Russian losses 900,000 and counting. Lost 1/2 his armor, and 1/3 of the Black Sea Fleet.

In 3 years of war, the Russians have not taken total control of the Donbas. Only occupy about 20% of Ukraine. All those losses and all this time only makes the Russians look, as one US GEN Ret. described … "marginal".

He has to play hardball with the POTUS as his war effort is not very effective. However, he knows this POTUS can actually play hardball. Vs. the last POTUS and his B Team who were no match for a former KGB tyrant.

But with all those bodies, wrecked armor and ships at the bottom of the Black Sea. He has to show he is doing something.

Also as I have said, he sees all the turmoil in DC between the parties. They USA's decay, etc. with the last POTUS, his Admin, his members of his party in Congress. The riots in the streets in support of islamic terrorists, LOEs are the bad guys and the bad guys are victims. The gov't sanctioned open border policy, the woke progressive DEI, CRT, etc. types, etc.

All that put together makes Putin confident the USA elected and assigned officials are fighting among themselves. And he can pretty much do what he wants. He can always hope if the war drags on and the Dems win enough seats in Congress at the Mid-terms. They will try to impeach Trump … Making more turmoil, allowing Putin to continue his quest for old Imperial Russian. And going down in Russian history, nearing Stalin's legacy.

A Ret CIA Officer recently said, it appears the only way to end the war. Will be Putin some way is no longer in power. Even if he dies for whatever reason. Which many would prefer …

Watching news often … it seems some have come up with some more interesting, educated opinions.

Putin can claim victory as he wanted to keep Ukraine out of NATO. However, his invasion pushed Sweden and Finland into NATO.

Putin's plan/hope all along was to replace Zilinsky with a puppet. Like Stalin, etc. did after WWII.

He will do all he can to keep his war going. He care little for his high losses in this 3 year + war. E.g. Russian losses 900,000 and counting. Lost 1/2 his armor, and 1/3 of the Black Sea Fleet.

In 3 years of war, the Russians have not taken total control of the Donbas. Only occupy about 20% of Ukraine. All those losses and all this time only makes the Russians look, as one US GEN Ret. described … "marginal".

He has to play hardball with the POTUS as his war effort is not very effective. However, he knows this POTUS can actually play hardball. Vs. the last POTUS and his B Team who were no match for a former KGB tyrant.

But with all those bodies, wrecked armor and ships at the bottom of the Black Sea. He has to show he is doing something.

Also as I have said, he sees all the turmoil in DC between the parties. They USA's decay, etc. with the last POTUS, his Admin, his members of his party in Congress. The riots in the streets in support of islamic terrorists, LOEs are the bad guys and the bad guys are victims. The gov't sanctioned open border policy, the woke progressive DEI, CRT, etc. types, etc.

All that put together makes Putin confident the USA elected and assigned officials are fighting among themselves. And he can pretty much do what he wants. He can always hope if the war drags on and the Dems win enough seats in Congress at the Mid-terms. They will try to impeach Trump … Making more turmoil, allowing Putin to continue his quest for old Imperial Russian. And going down in Russian history, nearing Stalin's legacy.

A Ret CIA Officer recently said, it appears the only way to end the war. Will be Putin some way is no longer in power. Even if he dies for whatever reason. Which many would prefer …

What do you think Trump will do if the Russians sabotage the peace talks again on Monday, as they always do?
Will he finally do something for peace, or will he once again give the Russians the opportunity and time to continue the killings?

This is why Putin and Trump work as team?

Nah, that's just your hatred of OrangeManBad speaking. Trump's been clear about his feelings on the Ukraine War – it's bloody and destabilizing and inherently risks escalation, and we need to pivot to China.

But the Western Globalist Left do NOT seem to want peace. They keep throwing sand in the gears of peace deal attempts, keep inflaming things like Germany saying it's going to give Ukraine deep strike missiles.

Why do you want war so much???

What do you think Trump will do if the Russians sabotage the peace talks again on Monday, as they always do?

When Trump came into office, Putin was talking about potential peace, that we should explore it. Then the Democrats/Left convinced Zelensky to sabotage his deal with Trump and Putin started shifting. Everytime the Democrats and the Left fruck over another peace deal, Putin's like, "OK, maybe Trump *can't* pull off peace against internal opposition -- they want war, let there be war."

And he knows that in the long run Ukraine runs out of men before he does, Ukraine collapses and he wins. But at what price? Even he knows re-establishing trade with the West would help Russia stay out of China's tentacles. But, he'll play the game according to the rules WE have set together with Russia.

What are these rules?

1. Tit for Tat Vengeance -- you drone strike our civilians we drone strike your deliberately, even launching Ukrainian terror strikes on civilians at public events. Leading to reciprocal terror strikes and on and on and on.

2. Constant escalation – more and longer range missiles and drones against an expanding set of targets -- strategic bomber bases, civilian parades, apartment buildings, trying to blow up civilian passenger planes, trying to assassinate opposition leaders. More more more more more.

3. No ceasefires -- even Ukraine has NOT kept its ceasefire promises

4. No mercy to the fallen – that poor injured guy waving for help? Put a drone into his head.

So that's the war we helped create. That's the war YOU want toc continue. And that path leads to Ukrainian collapse and Putin's victory.

Why do you want Putin to win?

SBm +1

The reality is this POTUS, and his admin are the last best hope of ending the war in Ukraine and Gaza. And is shutting down our borders. All directly happened under and sanctioned by the last POTUS, his admin and party.

Those are just the tip of the damage done in the past 4 years …

Without real US leadership many things not only in the US get skewed, etc. But many things in the World do to … History shows that …

It's Time for Trump to Wield the Stick Against Putin

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Armand

Russia's Vulnerable Underbelly: The Failure of Force Protection on Critical Infrastructure

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Armand

So Ukraine just pulled off an ambitious attack on Russian strategic bomber forces deep inside Russia -- supposedly destroying 40 or so bombers.

YouTube link

If so, I think this was a stupid move. This part of the Russian bomber fleet is a key part of its nuclear force, that is its primary strategic purpose. The strategy of nuclear deterrence has nothing to do conventional bombing, and to attack part if its "Nuclear Triad" -- even if they are old Bear bombers -- is an attack on Russia's nuclear deterrence and makes the use of nukes more likely.

This is a line both sides NEVER crossed during the Cold War. Line crossed…

If true, I think Putin is likely to respond with some of his de-nuked IRBMs and he won't tell anyone, he's just gonna barrage Ukraine. When he did that once the US kicked up a fuss about nuclear deterrence, since we can't tell if the missiles have nukes on them…and Putin won't care. Why should he?

YouTube link

The line was crossed in 2014 and Putin doesn't care. Why should Ukrainians?

A brilliant move. A country without a navy and air fleets destroyed the aggressors' navy and air fleets.

A big step towards peace, the aggressor will run out of planes to bomb Ukrainian civilians.

Sho Boki +1

Sho Boki + 2

Armand

A big step towards peace, the aggressor will run out of planes to bomb Ukrainian civilians

Don't you know the Russian mindset? You say you live in thier shadow…have they ever sued for peace after an embarrassing sneak attack? Can strongman Putin afford to look weak after this escalation?

The Ukrainians have evidently been planning this for almost a year, and gave the US no warning. Such a great ally! This is how we hit midnight, ShoBoki and pals. WAR WAR WAR is all I hear, like it's August 1914 and all the armchair generals and jingoists want a good old heroic war…fools, all of you…

Which was your War expertice/ experience?…

Armand

This is what I know … weak incompetent feckless, etc. elected and appointed officials cause wars. And allows tens of thousands of their own citizens to die because of their left liberal, etc. decisions …

And they all will get away with it. Not understanding or knowing all the blood that is on their hands.

Oh, wave the bloody shirt much do you? Go look that up Mr Armchair Hero.

I have not served – my family, however, has been a military family for centuries in England and in the US. My English direct family is gone -- lost in WW2. Wherever there was a British War, my family marched or sailed for hundreds of years. Only 4 men left in America to directly carry on the family name. Ultimately, it seems being a multi-generational military family is a genetic dead-end.

In the US, that history only goes back to the American Civil War…and includes Gettysburg. And the Plains Wars. And WW1. And Ww2. And Korea. And Vietnam. And Grenda. And Desert Storm. And Iraq and Afghanistan. And the Cold War.

But I have seen the cost of war first hand to my family. The Gold Stars. The Folded Flags. Life-altering injuries. PTSD. Addiction. Suicide. So while I play war games, as I have said sooo many times but you do not care, because you do not listen, I do not want war. War is your last resort, not a jingoistic penis-measuring contest. When you commit to war, have a clear goal, resource the goal and get it done -- you cannot idly or carelessly tell people their loved one must go someplace to fight and die so YOU feel better about yourself.

So what's the goal of the Ukraine War? If it was Ukrainian national survival, we had that victory in March of 2022 when Zelensky and Putin were close to a peace deal.

But then Biden and the Europeans killed the deal.

They DO NOT have peace as a goal. They did not have Ukraine's best interests in mind. They are open now about using Ukraine to fight an optional war by very thin proxy against Russia to weaken it and try to topple Putin.

How's that working out so far?

The result is the bloodiest and most destabilizing war in Europe since WW2, and Russia allied with China…oh yeah, and famine for millions in East Africa (since Ukraine and Russia is where they got most of their wheat and fertilizer).

And irony of ironies, the longer the war goes on the LESS likely it is that that Ukraine will emerge from it as an independent sovereign nation.

You don't see that…how is that? How is it that someone who, I would presume, plays historical war games, that you are oblivious to Russian military history specifically, and generally about military history? I mean, the 30 Years War that devastated Europe escalated as neighboring powers decided to stick their nose into the Bohemian Revolt against the Holy Roman Empire -- the war killed 10% of Europe's population. Oopsie!

How are you oblivious to the nature of dictators like Putin? How long will he survive Russian power politics if he looks weak? About as long as it takes a rival to pull the trigger. So he MUST respond with force. What that means, I don't know, but I'd guess it will be dramatic and costly.

So bizarre how much you fight against peace. I don't know if that's possible now, btw. You may get the broader war you seem to want, I guess 2500 dead kids a week isn't enough?? A trillion dollars in direct costs, trillions more in devastation, an entire generation of Ukrainian boys and men dead? Not enough yet?

So let's try the BIG PICTURE. If you only respond to one question -- just one, answer me this.

WHAT IS YOUR GOAL FOR THE UKRAINE WAR AND WHAT DOES "VICTORY" LOOK LIKE?

I congratulate your family's tremendous military history… it seems like that would have affected you… I would understand better if you showed yourself as an ultra pacifist… but your words only point to Ukraine and the democratic party governments of your country… that makes your sights much more narrower… your sights point to a single objective, or maybe two, but with so many horrible war situations going on, I don't see the same enthusiasm to criticize or tear your clothes in any of them… either you don't care in the least, or you have an agenda.

Although I could respond point by point to your long exposition, the truth is, I have no desire nor interest. Nothing and no one is going to change your persistence.

But at least, out of courtesy, I'll respond to your cries in the form of a final question.

My goals don't matter to anyone… my support has been personal from the start because I'm absolutely clear about who the aggressor is and who the attacked is… I understand that Ukrainians are fighting after so many years of terror, trying to rid themselves of the Soviet Nazi filth, as so many other European countries have done, even more so when their defenseless civilian population is invaded, bombed, mutilated, and raped… I deeply respect their resistance to the bitter end, and I identify with them. Yes, I have contributed financially, but that doesn't matter to anyone either…

In conclusion, what anyone says here doesn't matter in the slightest… sometimes one reacts because what one reads from another makes one's stomach churn… that's all.

Victory?… There is no victory in any war if you have to participate. I know that only too well. War brings out the worst and the best in a human being… that doesn't stop me from taking off my hat and supporting those brave people who give their lives defending their land, homeland, and family against the murderous horde that won't stop until someone more powerful than them does.

Unfortunately, the worst demons as Stalin, Hitler, or Putin do not understand any other way.

As has been seen so many times throughout history.

Armand

We want peace, you want capitulation and life in fear and slavery.
Peace is not a "victory" but eliminating the clear and present danger, the continuing death threat from warmongering muscovites.

It is not August 1914, it is February 2014, Putler already started the WW, we need to end it. Not by sending the troops but by helping the victims, by eliminating the tools of terror in the hand of aggressor. But you want to push Europeans into big war against Russia. It may happen if DICKOs and TACOs honeymoon continues..

And please, stop to talk about "If it was Ukrainian national survival, we had that victory in March of 2022 when Zelensky and Putin were close to a peace deal" nonsense. Like now, it was then demand for capitulation and genocide the Ukrainians. You hear these demands in second Istambul meeting and probably will hear today in third meeting.

Well, I think you're both nuts that you can't see past your own hatreds to see where this is going. Completely mental that you cheer every escalation, and fight every attempt to stop the fighting and give Ukraine the chance to recover, and so blithely dismiss the destruction of others without sacrifice of your own of any kind. And is EXACTLY like the clamor for war in 1914. Europeans hadnt experienced war for generations, it was all a glorious game. If you asked for peace you were shouted down as a cowardly Hun Lover. Everyone wanted in on the great game of War, hell, my grandpa joined up in Canada because it would over by Christmas…being captured at Ypres and sent to a German POW camp is why he survived.

Y'll sound just the same as the eager throngs demanding war…

If Europe wants another war, let them enjoy it without US support.

Well, I think you're both nuts that you can't see past your own hatreds to see where this is going. Completely mental that you cheer every escalation, and fight every attempt to stop the fighting and give Ukraine the chance to recover, and so blithely dismiss the destruction of others without sacrifice of your own of any kind. And is EXACTLY like the clamor for war in 1914. Europeans hadnt experienced war for generations, it was all a glorious game. If you asked for peace you were shouted down as a cowardly Hun Lover. Everyone wanted in on the great game of War, hell, my grandpa joined up in Canada because it would over by Christmas…being captured at Ypres and sent to a German POW camp is why he survived.

Y'll sound just the same as the eager throngs demanding war…

If Europe wants another war, let them enjoy it without US support. Time to exercise NATO Article 13 and leave.

"If Europe wants another war, let them enjoy it without US support."

This is exactly what you try to achieve. The big war in Europe.
Putin started it in 2014 and we have this war now and if we don't stop it, it will grow and we all will be dead soon.

How to stop the aggressor?
So far you say to us that we must surrender and to be killed in the Russian Gestapo basements without resistance.

And these who survive must enlist in Russian Army and go to kill other Europeans. This is how the Russian Warmachine works.

Legion 4: "This is what I know … weak incompetent feckless, etc. elected and appointed officials cause wars. And allows tens of thousands of their own citizens to die because of their left liberal, etc. decisions …"

So you call Putin as left liberal? :-)

"Time to exercise NATO Article 13 and leave."

Yes, we understand what you try to do.
At first to betray and sacrifice Ukraine and then to betray and sacrifice Europe.
All what Putin want from you.

You know that Putin already prepare resources for invasion into Europe?
Not all what muscovites war machine produces goes to Ukraine.

Sho, in over 3 years, the vast Russian military machine has failed to crush the Ukraine.

You keep saying if Russia is not stopped in the Ukraine, they will then crush and enslave Europe. Is the Ukraine the greatest power in Europe? All other countries are mere shadows of Ukrainian military prowess? If the Ukraine is crushed, Europe is no better than Europe when the Germans rolled over it in 39-41?

If that is true, it is both very sad and the fault of those who allowed it to be unprepared.

But if the Ukraine is NOT the dominant power in Europe, then I cannot see the Russians rolling over anyone.. especially a combined and prepared Europe.

I understand the Baltic states fears, as Russia has dominated them since Peter. But you are part of NATO and invading you would trigger NATO. I assume you believe at least Europe would start a war due to it.

But I doubt even if everyone did immediately declare war, the Russians would be stopped from overrunning the Baltic states rather quickly. Too small and too close to mother Russia and her allies.

I myself do not see the real benefits of Russia doing that, outweighing the disaster that it would bring on and I cannot see the Russians being able to sustain the losses(equipment and economy. Not manpower, they have lots and are willing to waste it), incurred in a larger prolonged war, even with the help of China.

But all that said, it's not going to change what you believe to be true.

This is exactly what you try to achieve. The big war in Europe.
Putin started it in 2014 and we have this war now and if we don't stop it, it will grow and we all will be dead soon

Nope, this is ALL ON YOU! I don't want war, you do. I would prefer peace, you attack me on that and call me a coward and a Putin lover for wanting to de-escalate and forge a peace deal.

And btw you are WRONG. Putin started his wars in 2008. You're not thinking at all critically. Let's review some history, shall we?

1. 2008-2009 Russia invaded George: Russia issues passports to people in northern Georgia (North Oesstia), declares them to be Russians who need protection, then Russia invaded and almost made it to the capitol to conquer George completely except for a brilliant Georgian spoiling attack that cut off their supply lines. Russia declares victory, and withdraw back to North Ossetia and declares that to be Russian soil.

European and US response? NOTHING! They had no frucks to give. Needed to keep the peace, y'all!

2. 2012 Russia Annexed Crimea: Russia issued passports to people in Crimea to make them Russian citizens and then organized a popular movement calling for a referendum vote on secession from Georgia. The vote passed, Ukraine tries some sh1t that doesn't work and Crimea is declared to be Russian soil.

European and US response? NOTHING! They had no frucks to give. Needed to keep the peace, y'all!

3. 2014 Russia Annexed the Donbas region: Russia issues passports to people in the Donbas to make them Russian citizens, declares them to be Russians who need protection, then Russia invaded and seized the Donbas and declared it to be Russian territory.

European and US response? NOTHING! They had no frucks to give. Needed to keep the peace, y'all!

4. 2022 Russia invaded Ukraine: Russia decided for Putin reasons that it could invade Ukraine in a blitzkrieg, topple the government and install a pro-Russian puppet. US/European uncertainty and gaffes like Biden's statement that the US would not respond to a "minor incursion into Ukraine" by Russia gave Putin a green light in his mind.

Putin's invasion fell to sh1te very quickly --wrong time of year to invade, wrong attack plan, wrong echelon organization, wrong assumptions about Ukraine, whose soldiers brilliantly and skillfully punished Russian advancing units and the whole Russian attack bogged down into a massive traffic jam. Putin wanted OUT before it became an embarrassment that would impact regime survival. Zelensky wanted the war over before it was too late and to get the Russians back into Russia. Israel and Turkey brokered peace talks to end the war.

European and US response? NO PEACE, ONLY WWAARRRRR! In order to get peace we need to EXPAND THE WAR, y'all!

So Biden and the Europeans killed the peace deal and escalated the war. Rather than de-escalate at any point, NATO and the EU Left and US Left/Globalists in the Democrat Party have made every effort to escalate. They made every effort to kill every peace deal. When Trump assumed the US presidency they redoubled efforts to kill the peace, to the point where the Democrats coached Zelensky to antagonize Trump and have told him that the Democrats will retake the Congress from the GOP in 2026 and then impeach Trump and remove him and Ukraine will get a flood of resources, so screw those guys and screw Trump!

The Europeans have also made every effort to kill peace talks through constant escalation and heated rhetoric, like the EU/NATO declaration that they will assist Ukraine with deep strike attacks.

And so they did, providing the intel and assets needed for this Ukrainian/NATO drone attack against Russian strategic bomber bases. This represents a massive threat escalation, and then the British Prime Minister just made a bold announcement about how Britain's nuclear forces "stand ready" and how Britain is going to build more submarines and more nukes. Why does he feel the need to chest thump about having nukes? I mean, having just assisted Ukraine's attacks on Russian nukes, does Mr. Pale, fidgety bland professional weasel politician PM Starmer think he's gonna stare down Putin?

And WHY? Why did Europe give not a single fruck about anything Russia did for 14 years, preferring peace and cheap Russian oil and gas, but now keep insisting on war at all costs?

Do you know why? I can't figure it out. I mean, if it was to save Ukraine, well, Ukraine did that themselves by March 2022…it was the Europeans and Biden regime who wanted this war.

What do they think they will get from WAR rather than from PEACE?

Has the deep yellow TACO made any comment on the Ukraine drone strike yet?

Ah, yes, you're a coward if you want to end the bloodiest war since WW2 before it escalates into the Fall Out TV show…

Russia LOST in Marxh 2022 and wanted out of Ukraine. Why did Biden and the Europeans want to keep the war going?

I would imagine all Ukrainians would want to end the war, they're just not prepared to give in to Putin and surrender in order to do so.

And another UK swipe at Trump, when they have enough splinters in their own eyes to blind themselves. 🙄

I would imagine all Ukrainians would want to end the war, they're just not prepared to give in to Putin and surrender in order to do so.

Ukraine lost the Crimea and the Donbas forever when O'Biden and the Europeans surrendered that to Putin without a shot. O'Biden and Europe declared their value for Ukraine's territory as ZERO from 2012 until 2022.

They didn't care. I still don't think they care, I think they are just using Ukraine to keep attacking Russia for an end purpose I don't understand.

So Ukraine isn't realistically getting that back. So now what?